Calvin and Hobbes Mafia(GAME OVER! Grownups Mafia Wins!)

[Desperado]

So... TIP has confirmed scum.

No.

[TheIrishPope]

I've had confirmed scum since the daystart
You're slow

[Skullduggery]

@Monkeyman

- Can we get a vote count, pretty please?

Why is Boxxy Town, Eddie? His wagon analysis is just...yuck.

And the fact that the chances of lynching Desperado are slim doesn't stop me from trying
DESPERADO FOR PRESIDENT

Well, with five days to go until the deadline, it's time to start compromising here. Which three players would you most support lynching today and why?

For me, I'd be okay with lynching Boxxy, Nobody Special, or TiphaineDeath. I'm not too enthusiastic about Dante or Metal Sonic, but if the deadline is looming and I have to choose between a no-lynch and a MS/Dante lynch, then yeah, I'll throw my vote on them. Begrudgingly.

[TheIrishPope]

Begrudgingly, I would choose anyone over a no lynch.

[Varsoon]

Just caught up.
I'm getting tired of all this bullshit about PRs and figuring out who is lying and so on.
We should just lynch scum.
I've supported a boxxy lynch for awhile, but boxxy's case against me complicates that. On one hand, it's such a weird vote to drop considering game flow, but on the other, it's also poorly upheld by gaps in logic. If I was to lie about a role, it would not be 2-shot neighborizer/miller.

TIP is coming off as more town, which upsets me, because I could definitely see the scum between him and Desperado. The amount of buddying that came out of it recently astounds me.
Rubicon and TD are clearly at odds, too. I highly suspect Rubicon is the liar in this scenario, since I can't remember a time when he contributed anything town to this game.
NS, Dante, and MS are the other candidates I have for scum, but I'm not feeling them as hard as I am the other four.

So, if I had to parse out who I would want lynched, or, rather, who I think is scummiest...

Boxxy = Rubicon > TD = Desperado = NS > Dante = MS > TIP = PA

All these abbreviations make me feel bad. I should just type out names.

Vote: Rubicon

I don't like it. You being an outspoken PGO does nothing for town unless you're a strong town player. Sadly, you're not. You haven't advanced good cases that've turned up scum, and you outed your supposed PR at the end of D1, which goes against being able to use your PR to kill scum. The only possible pro-town thing you could get out of claiming PGO is avoiding town impaling themselves on you if you are, in fact, PGO. Quite honestly, the bad outweighs the good, because an outed PGO is useless for town. Assuming you're actually lying, though, oh man. I could think of eons of reasons to lie about being a PGO.

Regardless, the following lynches inform the others.
Boxxy/Desperado/TheIrishPope
and
Rubicon/Tiphane Death.

Seeing as I could see scum as either Rubi or TD, I don't feel all too bad about putting a vote on one or the other.
If Rubi flips town/PGO, I'll heavily consider a TD lynch, etc etc.

But, yes,

Vote: Rubicon

[Rubicon]

oooooookkaayyy... am I missing something

huge

or are TD and I not remotely at odds? I'm saying I'm a PGO anyone who targets me will die. He's saying he didn't target me and, not coincidentally, didn't die. The last time he was asked for his read on me he called me "heavily town" and he's currently voting someone other than me. If he has a scum read on me now, which is possible, he hasn't said anything about it. I have him in my leaning-town pile and am entertaining PA's speculation in the name of intellectual honesty (and still want his answers to those last questions I asked him). Where in all that does the idea that we're at odds or that

either

of us has to be scum come from?

@ NS: TIP was responding in a joking manner to my previous post in which I said he was probably town.

@ Dante:

1. This is reasonable.
2. I've read every word of the game, and have been following it since the beginning. I wasn't asking you those questions because I don't have my own views on them, I was asking because I wanted

your

views. You'd said almost nothing before, so I needed to talk to you to figure you out.
3. I've been watching him.
4. I answered your question.
5. Which names on the Zoidberg's wagon are scum, in your estimation?

Just caught up.
I'm getting tired of all this bullshit about PRs and figuring out who is lying and so on.
We should just lynch scum.
I've supported a boxxy lynch for awhile, but boxxy's case against me complicates that. On one hand, it's such a weird vote to drop considering game flow, but on the other, it's also poorly upheld by gaps in logic. If I was to lie about a role, it would not be 2-shot neighborizer/miller.

Why does it complicate things?

I don't like it. You being an outspoken PGO does nothing for town unless you're a strong town player. Sadly, you're not. You haven't advanced good cases that've turned up scum, and you outed your supposed PR at the end of D1, which goes against being able to use your PR to kill scum. The only possible pro-town thing you could get out of claiming PGO is avoiding town impaling themselves on you if you are, in fact, PGO. Quite honestly, the bad outweighs the good, because an outed PGO is useless for town. Assuming you're actually lying, though, oh man. I could think of eons of reasons to lie about being a PGO.

Do you

think

I'm lying, or scummy in any way, or are you proposing a policy lynch? I probably should be lynched at some point because having a suspicious-looking PGO in LyLo is, um, dangerous to say the least. But you'll need to walk me through the logic for why

today

is the time to do that.

(I'm actually a decent player, tbh, and an above average scum hunter. I have my off games like anyone else (sometimes

really

off, like the last game I played with Tiphaine and PA, when both scum teams and the entire dead thread was convinced I was scum) but this isn't one of them. Paranoid Gun Owner - not the most pro-town town role ever invented in the game of mafia, but I'm doing my best to make it work in town's favor. You say the "bad outweighs the good" with me claiming PGO at the end of D1 - all I can say to that is I strongly disagree. The wiki recommends claiming D1 as PGO. I decided to do it in twilight because I looked at how PGOs played in other games and that seemed to work best.)

[Rubicon]

Just caught up.
I'm getting tired of all this bullshit about PRs and figuring out who is lying and so on.
We should just lynch scum.

Yeah, so why are you voting me for bullshit PR reasons? If you think I'm scum, explain why. Otherwise, vote scum.

[TiphaineDeath]

Me and rubicon are not at odds... I have a townread on him. Not liking that varsoon post.

I am nothing like a busdriver, I am not anything in the wiki(last I checked), and I pray to god above this role will never end up in the wiki.

@rubs
1) I like ballsy play, and I had another reason that must remain unsaid for now.
2) Zoidberg
3) He's scum, when I am back at my house I will give you all a full case, though I may go after varsoon instead, undecided as of yet.
4) I haven't had time to read him at all so I have no read on him, is he the one TIP has "confirmed scum" on? I am very out of touch with this game just now.

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote Count 3.4 - With 14 alive, it requires 8 to lynch - Day ends July 12th, 2013

Boxxy(3) - penguin_alien, Skullduggery, Desperado

(L-5)

Dante(3) - Rubicon, Metal Sonic, Nobody Special

(L-5)

Metal Sonic(2) - Dante, Psyche,

(L-6)

Desperado- TheIrishPope
Varsoon - boxxy
penguin_alien - Tiphaine Death
Rubicon - Varsoon

[EddieFenix]

Why is Boxxy Town, Eddie? His wagon analysis is just...yuck.

Going on a gut feeling right now with him. As far as your 2nd question

TIP (I don't trust him)
TD (Not sure about his claim gambit)
To be decided (too many candidates)

[T S O]

I am struggling to keep up with this damn game

[TiphaineDeath]

So PA and varsoon are probably both scum.

PA's 1327 betrays the mindset of "Huh, he did something that looks not like what his role would do, I can get him lynched with that." It is theoretically possible that he just misread.... every post I made.... where I didn't call rubicon scum.... and specifically said I didn't target him. But I'm not feeling that.

I could make a real case on Varsoon right now, but honestly, I don't need to. He just committed one of the hugest scumtells I see. He's using relational tells EARLY in the game. And he's leaning on them hardcore. Relational tells are easy to fake for scum, and they set up lines of logic for the late game. They are very easy to lean on, and very hard to refute because many times they are based simply on interpretations of posts.

VOTE: Varsoon

We are approaching a deadline, and yet I have faith in our town. Let's turbolynch this scummy fuck.

[Varsoon]

Eh, I should probably have slept before posting.

Even I don't know what the shit I was talking about half the time in my 1354.

Unvote

@Rubicon: It complicates things because I'm not used to scum throwing out such outlying votes. Regardless, Boxxy's probably scum.
Also, Rubi, thinking about it more, I think my 1534 was just an attempt to squeeze you on your PR and put some pressure on you since I don't think there's been a lot so far. I really like the genuine response you gave, and your explanations behind your claim and your town-motivated analysis and confronting of my weak accusations. The fact that you didn't flip the script and propose a lynch like TD makes me feel way better about calling you town.

@TD: I think I glossed too hard on the whole of your (not) targeting of Rubicon, and PA's comments are probably what made me think you did? I don't know. I think it's funny that you're trying to get me lynched for two reasons--you say it's early in the game (it isn't) to give pressure to the lynch and you explain why relational tells are scummy rather than why I am scummy. You also swear and and ally yourself as town with your last line, calling for a poorly thought out turbolynch. That's pretty much the least town thing you could do.

Going over it, PA said that you targeted Rubi when you didn't?
Jeeze, now, if that's not scummy, I don't know what is.
I also don't like PA's perma-lurk status and the way PA has engaged with the game so far. It feels highly accusatory and, apparently, hinges on lying to confuse town.

Vote: Penguin Alien

[Varsoon]

EDIT: I meant my 1354 (in response to Rubi). I should also probably wake up completely before posting. I just want this game to move, even if it is by the inch.

[TiphaineDeath]

Aaaand tries to get me off his back by allying with me on one of my other scumreads, people have got to learn this doesn't work very well XD.

[Varsoon]

Also, whoever said it earlier, you're pretty on the money. The Zoidberg flip really made me lose a good deal of the confidence I had in my scumhunting this game. Regardless, here's a read-list for now.

TheIrishPope: Null-leaning-town. Claimed tracker, seems to be tracker.
Psyche: Null-leaning-town. I'm in a QT with him and he comes off as very town, but if he's a good liar, I'd be pissed. Haven't seen much of him lately, though.
Varsoon: That's me!
penguin_alien: Scum. Lurks too hard and has really poor posts that confuse and turn town on town (in my opinion).
Rubicon: Town. His PGO claim checks out.
Skullduggery: Town. Unless Skull has the amazing ability to play the most hardcore town in scum games, I probably can't be convinced that Skull isn't town.
boxxy: Null-leaning-scum. Lurks hard, makes strange posts/votes, doesn't usually use good evidence for them.
Desperado: Null-leaning-town. Don't like his exchange between TIP about all the bus-driver stuff, but, as it seems, it implicates Boxxy. Or something. It's just a weird back and forth.
Metal Sonic: Null-leaning-town. Mostly basing this on meta of MS. I'd like it if Metal Sonic would be active.
T S O: Null. I don't know what to think of this slot.
TiphaineDeath: Null-leaning-scum. Seems too defensive of himself and also turned my shitty pressure into a poorly parsed case against me. I explain this more in 1362.
EddieFenix: Null. Lurks too much, but doesn't really feel like scum in the content posted.
Nobody Special: Null. Same as Eddie, I feel.
Dante: Null-leaning-scum. I don't like the ellipses everywhere, but that's not why I feel he might be scum. Content produced feels less town than it does scum, also is largely reactionary in posting method.


P-EDIT: TD, I'm not allying with you, silly guy. You can stay on my back if you want, but, please, build a better case than the one you have right now. If i did get lynched, it'd be embarrassing for town to lynch me off of the shoddily built platform you provided. If you haven't been following me very much, I've been thinking PA is scum since D2.

[penguin_alien]

How does Rubicon's PGO claim check out, Varsoon?

[Rubicon]

Do you think I'm not a PGO, penguin?

[penguin_alien]

I don't know, but since there doesn't seem to be a kill lining up with it, I don't see how Varsoon is so sure. Even you said that someone with your claim shouldn't get to LyLo. I can see not lynching you today (and I don't want to) but to see you as confirmed? Sounds like he's kissing up.

I don't think your claim is super-beneficial to scum in the long-run. And since I don't think you needed to gambit at that time as scum, I doubt you're scum. And since you had a front-row seat to the problem of town fake-claiming in the 2.5 game I don't think you're lying town. So I believe you for now.

[T S O]

Varsoon, use the word "null" less in your reads. It might give some people the impression you're keeping your options open... oh wait!

[Varsoon]

TSO, here's a list for you:

TheIrishPope: Town.
Psyche: Town.
penguin_alien: Scum.
Rubicon: Town.
Skullduggery: Town.
boxxy: Scum.
Desperado: Town.
Metal Sonic: Town.
T S O: Scum.
TiphaineDeath: Scum.
EddieFenix: Scum.
Nobody Special: Scum.
Dante: Scum.

See why that's a shitty list and why my other one helps town a lot more?
Or, rather, would you like to prod at me and hope a mislynch goes through? If you're blaming me for fence-sitting in this game, it's pretty laughable.

@PenguinAlien: Maybe no one targeted him? If someone did, they'd likely call him on it. Regardless, I'm convinced he's PGO by his defense of the claim.

[Rubicon]

I don't know, but since there doesn't seem to be a kill lining up with it, I don't see how Varsoon is so sure. Even you said that someone with your claim shouldn't get to LyLo. I can see not lynching you today (and I don't want to) but to see you as confirmed? Sounds like he's kissing up.

I've never played with a neighborizer of any kind before, but my impression is they're usually town. Do you think he's a mafia neighborizer / cultist / buddies with Psyche?

Varsoon, use the word "null" less in your reads. It might give some people the impression you're keeping your options open... oh wait!

Who are your scum reads and why?

[Rubicon]

Varsoon, was there any flavor text in your role PM? How did it go?

[T S O]

TheIrishPope: Null.
Psyche: Town.
penguin_alien: Null.
Rubicon: Town.
Skullduggery: Town.
boxxy: Scum.
Desperado: Town.
Metal Sonic: Scum.
T S O: Town.
TiphaineDeath: Null-town.
EddieFenix: Null.
Nobody Special: Town.
Dante: Scum.

Thanks, Varsoon.

[TheIrishPope]

Varsoon, obviously me and Desperado are opposite alignments