Mini 1468: Legends of the Hidden Temple- Game Over!

[Grimgroove]

Ok, there isn't. I just checked, and Wisdom wasn't being defensive of amrun, but was actually attacking her for suggesting the plan and going for towncred. I guess he just picked the wrong word.

The way NS worded it it sounded like he was asking why Wisdom was protecting her, making the entire thing illogical.

But it's just the wrong word he chose there.

As if this game hasn't been confusing enough.

[Wisdom]

No, he clearly meant why I'm being defensive.
However I have no clue why everyone calls attacking faulty/scummy posts as being defensive.

[Amrun]

Aaaand I like some of these more recent ap posts. Well damn.

Doesn't matter, though -- I still think he's scum.

AP, don't give me this shit about ignoring your case or whatever. I tried to engage you about your case, and you just TOTALLY ignored me. That's what I find far scummier than your misrepping case. And your defense to that -- "I'm in too many games" -- is terribly scummy. I don't care how many games you're in. I've been v/la for pretty much the whole duration of this game, and I still manage to respond to thingsy scum reads say to me. You have posted, just not about the things I think you would be interested in as actual town with a genuine scum read on me. And that's why you're scum.

Also I never said wisdom was too scummy to be scum. He is engaging in several different types of behavior I find it unlikely for scum to engage in. Ergo, he is town.

Also wtf at you not being in a newbie I modded? Remember, UN was in it and was scum and his partner ruined the game...? We talked about this like 3 times before.

Grim, who have I buddied? Why do you think I lack "cases?" Why do you think cases are important?


I was trying to see if I could get enomis to open up in qt by professing a town read on him here, but it's not really working. He asks for my opinions on lots of things but usually has to be prompted to provide his own, and they're generally pretty wishy washy. He could easily be scum.

Elyse is town, though, idk what you guys are smoking.

[Grimgroove]

Why the hell are you self-voting?

Why the hell not. Grim wants to posture about me being at L - 1, he can stop being a posturing scumbutt and hammer me.

What is this about?

[Wisdom]

Elyse is town, though, idk what you guys are smoking.

Why?

[Amrun]

Why would she put her neck out for safety dance like that as scum, being who he is? And in general, I follow her posts and they come off as townish to me.

[Grimgroove]

No, he clearly meant why I'm being defensive.
However I have no clue why everyone calls attacking faulty/scummy posts as being defensive.

Hence my interpretation.

[Wisdom]

Why would she put her neck out for safety dance like that as scum, being who he is?

Where did she do that?

[Amrun]

SafetyDance is obvtown.

It was this, but I realized in finding it that it was a joke. I thought it was based on qt posts originally. Woops. Idc, she is still a town read for me. She reflects my thoughts too often.


Grim, you missed some questions I had for you.

[Wisdom]

That means nothing. Scum can reflect townish thoughts too. They want to look town, after all. I want you to explain to me what is townish about her posts.

[Wisdom]

That means nothing. Scum can reflect townish thoughts too.

And it means even less since I don't know if you're town.

[Amrun]

I don't have time for that shit, and I don't like doing that anyway. It's anti-town in most situations.

Call it gut, if you please. I don't find it happening often that scum reflect my actual thought PROCESSES as town. Because they're not town, and imitate all they want, but coming to the same conclusion IN THE SAME WAY multiple times is always a town tell for me.

P-edit: once again, I don't really care. Elyse isn't even on the chopping block.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, don't give me this shit about ignoring your case or whatever. I tried to engage you about your case, and you just TOTALLY ignored me.

Yes thats exactly what happened and not me lurking in general which I already addressed. Amrun, you are ignoring my posts that I would expect you to understand if you were town!!!!!!

Aaaand I like some of these more recent ap posts. Well damn.

Doesn't matter, though -- I still think he's scum.

What about it did you like if you aren't even remotely considering voting someone else in this 'fantastic pool' then.

Also wtf at you not being in a newbie I modded? Remember, UN was in it and was scum and his partner ruined the game...? We talked about this like 3 times before.

??????? I've been in a single newbie game ever and it was modded by Bork. The end.

Why do you think cases are important?

WTF is this. You are grilling me about ignoring your case.

You have posted, just not about the things I think you would be interested in as actual town with a genuine scum read on me.

Thats because. Im defending myself from this shit wagon and you aren't able to be voted right now and THAT means there are more interesting things to worry about.

[AngryPidgeon]

Who am I distracting from?

I didn't mean you. Its just a phrase I say to mean that player X is an ok PL, but I doubt they are actually going to flip scum.

I think you're scummy for your case on me that was entirely based on a percieved association with Amrun.

That was literally one sentence I made in one post. The rest of everything I've said about you is not related to Amrun.

Although I did expand more on that only because Wisdom thought I was talking to him for some reason.

I think Amrun is scummy because of buddying, a lack of cases.

FFS, can everyone just go and read her stance on Majiffy in ISO starting from the first challenge?

She actually voted him out of spite and later claimed that she was scumreading him the whole time when she admits to not scumreading anyone in the group. So yes, Im glad we can agree on that anyways : )

I know you're already convinced I'm scum.

It would be very good to just lynch you and get that over with

, but right now I think Nobody Special's lurkishness is more reason for worry.

: ?

I don't see how those two sentiments are related unless you are blatantly suggesting I should be lynched for being incorrect about a read on you.

Re NS: he isn't a strong read and I will likely never feel strongly about NS because hes a chronic lurker and his posts are always scummy as balls to me. But I find it unlikely that he claims to catch up on reading and only offers one wishy-washy scumread as scum. Its going to get him pressure when he could jsut cough up a few bullshit reads and present them. It reads more as apathetic town, but all things considered hes my fav lynch if I had to pick from this pool.

[AngryPidgeon]

I've been v/la for pretty much the whole duration of this game, and I still manage to respond to thingsy scum reads say to me

So? You want me to make sure to ISO my scumreads and answer questions they make?

This whole line of thought on me hinges around me 'reading and pretending I havent' which is hilarious. What in your mind WOULD I HAVE REPSONDED TO just now. Im sure you're talking about my posts today. I started reading from where I started quoting shit.

[AngryPidgeon]

What in your mind WOULD I HAVE REPSONDED TO just now

And by that I mean in my string of catchup walls today. Im assuming that is what you mean in part at least.

[Grimgroove]

I know you're already convinced I'm scum.

It would be very good to just lynch you and get that over with

, but right now I think Nobody Special's lurkishness is more reason for worry.

: ?

I don't see how those two sentiments are related unless you are blatantly suggesting I should be lynched for being incorrect about a read on you.

I really need bed so just getting into this one, but your read on me is indeed a problem. I'm not saying you should be lynched for it, otherwise I'd vote you, but it would certainly make my game easier if I did so.

You say you've got more on me than my association with Amrun, but I don't see it. Earlier said you don't want to talk about me because I'd enjoy that too much (or something to that extent), but I really think you should.

Which teams should be in the next lynchpool according to you?

[Grimgroove]

Aaaand I like some of these more recent ap posts.

Same here.

[Elyse]

Incoming wall:
Oh boy here we go.

Anything he said about me was wrong.

That's it? So when you said "Everything he said is wrong" you were just referring to his reads on you?

I think I'll just be sheeping her. I'm guessing she's pretty good at this game, so yeah, no harm done.

You need to relax. Just because you were wrong once doesn't mean you're some terrible player who can't trust his own reads. Come on. And just because you think mollie is town doesn't mean she is right. I mean you were wrong. Aren't you town?

The more I think about it, the more post 600 makes you town actually. I don't think scum would consciously try to use this as an argument thinking it would work, so I see it as town blurting out hypotheses without a filter. Posting without such a filter is actually very townish.

That's better.

So, what you said about AP; do you think that "being wrong" was scummy? And what exactly was he wrong about?

The "That's better" from Wisdom in this exchange bothers me.

Right now I think: enomis/AP/Amrun/{Safety or Elyse} with Safety more likely than Elyse.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AP

Keep this in mind. Wisdom scumteam #1 is enomis/AP/Amrun/{Safety or Elyse} with Safety more likely than Elyse.

I've played with AP once and he was much more active and persuasive in the other game. He was always scumhunting and pushed good, legit cases and he was confident. He was town. Here, I'm seeing the opposite, on top of what Amrun said.

But why are you against voting AP? Do you have a townread on him or something? Amrun posted a good list of reasons to vote AP, yet you ask if it is just how he plays and continue voting NS who hasn't done anything. Why?

I don't find the reasoning very convinving in this case. Ok, I agree with the fact that his case on me was pretty bad, but to me he did come off as active and trying to be persuasive, showing confidence. It is not the opposite of what Elyse descirbes as his townplay.

Um no? He's been lurking through the game, no one bought his case, and he wasn't confident in it. What are you talking about?

@Grim
You said "AP has been wrong all game." Can you show where he's wrong?

I wonder why she asked me this question, considering she earlier said herself his cases are not good and not legit.

I asked this question because it looked like it could be a scumslip. If you said, "he was wrong with his reads on x, y, and z" or something like that, I would vote you in a heartbeat.
Also,

My strongest scumreads right now are Amrun, Elyse and AngryPidgeon. Those three are followed by SafetyDance and enomis.

So Grim's scumreads are Amrun, Elyse, AP, {Safety, enomis}
and

Nobody Special I think is town, his last post seemed genuine enough to me. Instead of pointing to a random other person in the other lynchpool and try tog et this person lynched instead of himself,h e admits to not having any clear reads. I can relate.

NS is town.
Now AP comes in and says this:

and I'd rather lynch NS than Venmar.

And suddenly,

VOTE: Nobody Special

Even if only to spur him towards more content. He can't stay in hiding forever.

Don't have an especially strong townread on any of the four anymore. AngryPidgeon is my preference, but not enough to put him at L-1 already. Elyse and amrun on his wagon aren't exactly reassuring either.

Bam. Slaps a vote on NS. Wtf? He goes with his scumread to possibly lead a wagon on someone he had a townread on.

If he doesn't provide content he's the scummiest of the bunch and should be lynched for it.

As soon as he does provide content, I'll evaluate him based on that.

I don't see how it kills "the purpose". The purpose is to make him deliver content. Tell me how my vote or my reasons for it are standing in the way of achieving this?

But you just had a townread on him, and listed five players that are possible scum. Now he trumps them all?

AP's self-vote followed by rage posting just shows how he's bluffing and is desperate to stay alive. And the sad part is that Wisdom bites! AP basically reverses his scumread on him by raging. Impressive.

I've played with AP once and he was much more active and persuasive in the other game.

Up until I lurked my ass off for significant portions of it.

Also that game had a lot less posts and I'm in about 2 more games than I was in that one. But no keep on with this SHITMETA. Elyse is probably scum with Amrun.

Oh, sorry. I guess I should ignore meta because it doesn't make you look good.

By everyone, you mean me, Majiffy, and Amrun, all of whom had scumreads on AP before.

Yes, assert that you had the read previously. Continue focusing on your appearance without actually doing anything.

How is that focusing on my appearance? Wisdom said that he didn't like everyone voting you right away. I told him it was three people who already scumread you, and he was over exaggerating. But nice misrep.

UNVOTE:

How does

enomis/Amrun/Elyse/Safety sound to you?

Ok what the fuck is this? You unvote your strongest? (maybe not, but definitely in this pool) scumread and ask him about another scumteam? Are you negotiating with him or something? I don't get this at all.

^ But then WHO TO LYNCH TODAY.

But the fact you are focused on the big picture is just more proof you are town.

I'd buy that list, but I really think GG belongs in it instead of Safety.

But Safety isn't mindlessly raging like Im used to him doing as town, so

And then AP buddies Wisdom by saying he looks town for focusing on the big picture. That's just dumb. Everyone has at least four possible scum that include people out of the lynchpool. But the buddying worked, so bravo.

I'd lynch Venmar if he's going to continue being useless all game. Or NS because equally he will most likely be lurking all game. But both of those are more policy lynches than anything.

So not AP? Now he's town after spamming the thread, self-voting, and raging at people who dare call him scum?

@Grim
You said "AP has been wrong all game." Can you show where he's wrong?

The more I read, the more I want to lynch Elyse for making wishywashy posts and interpreting what limited meta she has of me to fit her read of me. Also this ^ is just scum fitting in. GG was clearly just AtEing about my read on him and this question is way too missing-the-forest-for-the-trees to likely come from town.

If I interpreted your meta to make you look town, you would have no problem with it. And I explained why I asked Grim that question, and no it wasn't obvious he was AtEing about your read on him.

VOTE: venmar

And it is complete, AP gets Wisdom to vote someone he doesn't think is scum.

Wisdom's retardedly opportunistic, waffly, and flip-floppy stance on me is so painfully scummy

Please show us where I have been opportunistic or waffly. As for my stance on you, I have made it completely clear.

Hm. Maybe it's because you had him as a townread and are now voting him?

Venmar's 928 is pretty obvtown and genuine.

If Wisdom truly thinks I am the typical player who tunnels him the first game that they play with him, he should have little reason to be voting for me for similar reasons. Right now, Wisdom is only voting for me because he thinks I am being retarded and useless. Sorry Wisdom, that is such a classic discredit case that I think I will call you out on it.

Right now I am voting you because the pool you created is bad. My four scumreads are outside it. I have to compromise for you or NS, and I'm feeling that you'll be less useful than NS. I don't think you are scum, because scum wouldn't be that stupid to expect to get me lynched like that, but you need to die because you don't show any interest in actual scumhunting.

Do you want to prove that wrong? Tell me what you think of enomis, Amrun, Elyse, Safety. Use some of that effort you used to make that Wisdom-lynch campaign and actually scumhunt.

Oh really? Your four scumreads are outside? What happened to?

Right now I think: enomis/AP/Amrun/{Safety or Elyse} with Safety more likely than Elyse.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AP

Oh right. AP raged, spammed, self-voted, and buddied the fuck out of you. And for you to say that NS is going to be more useful than Venmar is just retarded. Venmar is bleeding town and you're just too stubborn to admit it because he thinks you're scum.

Wisdom just argues for the sake of arguing, he is super hyper defensive about himself and goes to a length to spam post in his defence. This is scummy since he clogs up the thread on purpose. He argues just for the sake of arguing which is scummy and anti-town, since town should have no town motivation to clog up the thread.

Here's a typical example of why Venmar can't be scum. Scum can't push this bullshit for a serious accusation. Anyone's simple 1 minute search will tell them that Wisdom is hyperactive regardless of alignment and could care less if the thread gets "clogged up" or not.

How the hell is your townread on AP so strong that you'd rather lynch someone who "can't be scum"?

That means nothing. Scum can reflect townish thoughts too. They want to look town, after all. I want you to explain to me what is townish about her posts.

Alright, so before I was a PoE scumread (fifth in the list actually) and now you're trying to discredit someone's townread on me? It's definitely not because AP is trying to get people to scumread me, right?

Alright so basically Wisdom is either easily misled town or scum trying to save his buddy AP. I'm thinking the former.

And Grim is scummy af.

So it's probably AP/enomis/Grim/Safety. That's my bet.
Other possibilities are AP/enomis/NS/Wisdom, AP/enomis/Safety/Wisdom or AP/NS/Safety/Wisdom.

[AngryPidgeon]

Why would she put her neck out for safety dance like that as scum, being who he is? And in general, I follow her posts and they come off as townish to me.

For towncred assuming he flips town? That took zero imagination from me.

Why the hell are you self-voting?

Why the hell not. Grim wants to posture about me being at L - 1, he can stop being a posturing scumbutt and hammer me.

What is this about?

What do you think its about. If you want to talk about putting me at L - 1 and then go posture on the NS wagon instead, be ready to get called out on it.

p-edit: holy butt.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP's self-vote followed by rage posting just shows how he's bluffing and is desperate to stay alive.

Or maybe Im actually townposting and pissed off that Venmar threw me into a lynchpool that I sidagree with before I could actually catch up in the clusterfuck.

Im glad you have a compelling reason to interpret it this one way over the other. But coming from someone who called me scum for lurking and not playing like I did in one other game (which was a hugely different game that I actually did lurk in anyhow), I wasnt exactly expecting a reasoning from a->b.

[Wisdom]

Damn it Elyse looks town with that post now.
Who the fuck is scum in this game

@Elyse
About your point about Venmar; I refuse to see how someone who does absolutely nothing other than spam "LETS LYNCH WISDOM" is helpful for the town.
About AP I think that his posts were genuine. I did have a scumread on him previously, but the quick votes on him and his recent votes make me think he's town.

[Wisdom]

and his recent posts*

[AngryPidgeon]

If I interpreted your meta to make you look town, you would have no problem with it

Oh boy a hypothetical accusation against me that is completely unprovable either way at this point.

And then AP buddies Wisdom by saying he looks town for focusing on the big picture. That's just dumb

I've been calling Wisdom town since all game. So this point is a blatant construe of my intentions.

So not AP? Now he's town after spamming the thread, self-voting, and raging at people who dare call him scum?

Frankly, yes. Yes I am.

Im not always town but when I am its obvious as shit....

when Im not lurking : )

Theres a reason I've only ever been Mislynched twice. Im not going to 3 today.

How is that focusing on my appearance?

You are asserting that you had a scumread on me to show consistency.

This is a minor point since I understand its a response to wisdom, but you are stating something without really concluding anything and I dislike that you are drawing attention to the fact you are being consistent when that really isnt relevant. Like...why not ask Wisdom to clarify that opinion?

[Elyse]

AP's self-vote followed by rage posting just shows how he's bluffing and is desperate to stay alive.

Or maybe Im actually townposting and pissed off that Venmar threw me into a lynchpool that I sidagree with before I could actually catch up in the clusterfuck.

I can see that you're pissed off, and you have every right to be, but why is that townposting?

Damn it Elyse looks town with that post now.
Who the fuck is scum in this game

@Elyse
About your point about Venmar; I refuse to see how someone who does absolutely nothing other than spam "LETS LYNCH WISDOM" is helpful for the town.
About AP I think that his posts were genuine. I did have a scumread on him previously, but the quick votes on him and his recent votes make me think he's town.

It's more helpful than someone who doesn't post anything. But I do agree that Venmar needs to stop tunneling on you.
And concerning AP, I already explained the quick votes on him weren't scummy. There were only three and all three people already had a scumread on him. I don't see his posts as genuine, but that's just me. I think he's a good enough player to fake it, but then again, he might not be.