Newbie 1389 Trouble in River City Game Over Scum win


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Post Post #400 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:24 pm

Post by fferyllt »

In post 393, likeabauss wrote:There no friggim way my question to Kue at that point derailed imking. It was an RVS from him. He wasn't pursuing anything. I was opening a new line of questioning to Kue. Why did Kue make a big deal out of an RVS and cop a defense? Totally unrelated.

And no way. The town reads as a scum tendency post was directly related to my conversation with Sikon at the time. I suggested that early town reads could be a form of buddying or a scummy tendency in my first post as I began my questioning to him. I wanted to explain the scenario and clarify because his response to me didn't seem to understand the point.

You're taking those posts out of context or deliberating misstating what was said.
Go back through those exchanges.
The irony.

That's always the risk. Mafia is a game of paranoia and trust. Once paranoia rears its head, it's really difficult to do a reset.
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Post Post #401 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:43 pm

Post by likeabauss »

I think cAPS is just retarded or disinterested. Mafia wouldn't hammer without a claim if they could go no lynch. So just dumb town play there.

People, you have to read what other people write in this game. Don't restate, misquote, or otherwise obfuscate. If you have a question, ask for clarity... Don't fly off the handle like you just won the lottery.

Scum needs to kill PR's and trusted active townies... So keep that in mind as you analyze night moves. Not really any trusted townies at this point, and enough wtfery from me to play off of. Plus the cAPS hammer. They can take a shot in the dark at hitting a role holder and let the chaos deliver a mislynch on D2. Use your brains. If you're a townie and you aren't making time to post here, sub out. Seriously.

Fferyllt, you cant ignore the context and you have to consider the motivation behind the action. If it isn't clear, ask. If the response doesn't make sense, then you might be on to something... But don't get ahead of the logic.
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Post Post #402 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:51 pm

Post by fferyllt »

In post 401, likeabauss wrote:I think cAPS is just retarded or disinterested. Mafia wouldn't hammer without a claim if they could go no lynch. So just dumb town play there.

People, you have to read what other people write in this game. Don't restate, misquote, or otherwise obfuscate. If you have a question, ask for clarity... Don't fly off the handle like you just won the lottery.

Scum needs to kill PR's and trusted active townies... So keep that in mind as you analyze night moves. Not really any trusted townies at this point, and enough wtfery from me to play off of. Plus the cAPS hammer. They can take a shot in the dark at hitting a role holder and let the chaos deliver a mislynch on D2. Use your brains. If you're a townie and you aren't making time to post here, sub out. Seriously.

Fferyllt, you cant ignore the context and you have to consider the motivation behind the action. If it isn't clear, ask. If the response doesn't make sense, then you might be on to something... But don't get ahead of the logic.
Welp. Backatcha. Maybe next time we play together we'll have better baselines on each other.
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Post Post #403 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:01 pm

Post by cAPSLOCK »

Sorry. I asked where he was earlier, saw he was l-2 saw that in the vote count, then rechecked to make sure I wasn't hammer. I was on my phone. I screwed up. Sorry.

I am also now somewhat trapped because of weather.

Sub me out please and good luck with the game.
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Post Post #404 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:08 pm

Post by likeabauss »

Well, if you are town Fferyllt, then focus on Trollie, Lynx, Jason.
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Post Post #405 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:18 pm

Post by fferyllt »

In post 404, likeabauss wrote:Well, if you are town Fferyllt, then focus on Trollie, Lynx, Jason.
I could be wrong, but I am less worried about trollie. jason, yeah. And I'm not as sanguine about cheery dog.

You sound like you've rethought sikon.
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Post Post #406 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:26 pm

Post by likeabauss »

Somebody else get on Trollie then.

I re-read Sikon a bunch. Could just be noob play, and/or a younger player... Like late teens, early 20's. If you're town, and Sikon is town, Kue town and Caps town... You've got a short list to sort through.
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Post Post #407 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:38 pm

Post by fferyllt »

In post 406, likeabauss wrote:Somebody else get on Trollie then.

I re-read Sikon a bunch. Could just be noob play, and/or a younger player... Like late teens, early 20's. If you're town, and Sikon is town, Kue town and Caps town... You've got a short list to sort through.
A short list and not many mislynches available.


I want to say this in case I'm not alive to say it on day 2. When you get MYLO (either 4-2 or 3-1 depending on if scum are lynched tomorrow) that is the time to consider a no lynch.

If you have one confirmed town or all but confirmed town, then no lynch is probably not a good idea, because that player will be dead on the following day.

Also, once a town PR flips, then scum will know the game set up. If there are two goons, then there will only one PR and they will know that as well as knowing which PR to claim based on the matrix in this thread's OP. Be highly suspicious of any breadcrumbs that postdate the PR flip.
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Post Post #408 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:47 pm

Post by sikon327 »

bauss -- early 20's, yeah. I hope to get a bit better at this. I think I've gotten too emotionally invested with this game, too. I'll try to be more objective tomorrow. Hopefully next time we meet there won't be so much misunderstanding between us.
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Post Post #409 (ISO) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:05 pm

Post by Nobody Special »



Vote Count 1.06

Kueshina (1) Lynx_Shine
fferyllt (2) Kueshina, likeabauss
likeabauss (5) Cheery Dog, JasonWazza, sikon327, TheTrollie, cAPSLOCK

Not Voting

fferyllt


With 9 it takes 5 to lynch

V/LA: Lynx_Shine through Sunday July 7

Deadline: (expired on 2013-07-05 00:14:37)
....what?



Blitz: Picking Simplicity taking pre-ins; PM for info. (0/13)
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Post Post #410 (ISO) » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:37 am

Post by RachMarie »



Much discussion happened and varying people were accused of being the mafia amongst you...... Finally as the last rays of the sun lingered on the horizon, you made up your mind to lynch LAB.....After all his name sounded like a mafia type.....



As he gasped and jerked on the rope dying, a card fell out of his pocket. He was the school librarian..


Congratulations you lynched one of your own.



likeabauss a
vanilla townie
was lynched on Day 1.



All night actions need to be PMed to me by (expired on 2013-07-08 02:37:14) ---Rach






BRAND NEW Get to know me http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=69243
Like the phoenix I am rising from the ashes
chilledtea: We played bad on day 2 when we lynched rach.

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Post Post #411 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:50 pm

Post by RachMarie »


The sun shows its first light sparkling on the large lake near the conference room. Such a beautiful sight.... you all watch the sunrise and admire its majesty. Suddenly a scream comes from the boathouse.... You rush there to find an open door and the mayor was screaming. Sitting in the boat you see one of your own..... Sikon with a bullet in his chest... blood is trailing from him..... his hands are tightly around a set of binoculars and his other hand has a notebook with a map drawn on it but the map is covered in blood and is not readable.... Who was he following with those binoculars you will never know because he is dead...


Sikon327 a
Town Tracker
was killed on Night 1.



With 7 it takes 4 to lynch


Grimgroove replaced cAPSLOCK during the night.... Rach


Deadline is in (expired on 2013-07-29 19:50:21)




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chilledtea: We played bad on day 2 when we lynched rach.

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Post Post #412 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:16 pm

Post by TheTrollie »

yo son
"scum, scum, scum" went TheTrollie!

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Post Post #413 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:02 pm

Post by Lynx_Shine »

I was a little behind on activity even before my VLA, sorry about that, it was mostly last-minute costume things taking my time. (The timing was kinda sketchy unfortunately, but I've got the pictures to prove this.) Got home pretty recently and I've got what I missed read. Bauss's flip has me side-eyeing ffery, I'm not entirely sure on Kue, and I'm not that trusting of cAPS. Accidental hammers happen, I've seen it, but it happens often enough that it's a really easy out. (I'd like to see how his replacement plays before I go after him too hard.)

But I just wanna get this out of the way that I probably trust Trollie the least right now. Same train of thought as cAPS's hammer; it happens often enough that it can't be used as a read thing on its own. "He always plays that poorly so he could be Town." It doesn't mean he's got a good poker face, it means his content is so sparse you can't get a read because he's not doing anything.

VOTE: TheTrollie
In post 412, TheTrollie wrote:yo son
You start off the Day with that. Seriously? It's been two pages since your last post and you have two words? No reads changed? No suspects? Nothing at all to elaborate? This was about 26 minutes after the Day update, were you really lurking that hard just to have the first post?

1739 words through this whole thread across 37 posts, a majority under 20 words each. Yo son, do you even play?
In post 251, TheTrollie wrote:
In post 246, fferyllt wrote:
In post 245, TheTrollie wrote:VOTE: sik

shhh....I'm lurking
Hey, if you stop lurking maybe we could talk about the game?
yeah that would be cool. I have to catch up first though.
In post 248, likeabauss wrote:Also, if we can't/won't hang Fferyllt... I'm perfectly happy hanging Trollie for being absolutely useless.
I'm an investment. Eventually I'll start to care about this game and will make u a happy lil boy
Or you could stop lurking and stop being a waste of a player slot. Any word on that catching up yet?

I'd ISO further but there's not much else that I haven't already said because there's barely anything there. His few longer posts are "I agree with everybody in these bullet points I used to pad out the post" or "you guys are dumb but I won't offer an alternative because that would be productive."
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Post Post #414 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:34 pm

Post by Cheery Dog »

In post 394, cAPSLOCK wrote:OK. We are running into a bit of a tight thing with time, yes?

A no lynch on day one is almost always bad is it not?

No one is really fighting for a particular wagon, and one of the only active posters is the one who is closest to being lynched.

This game culture and style is so different than the several games I have played elsewhere I have truly turned into a functional noob, sorry... But we need to get a move on yes?

VOTE: likeabauss

I feel sure this action leads to a quick day 2 lynch for m... But its the best I have. I don't believe him yet.
Damn you needing to sub out here without explaining why you've decided LAB was your apparent biggest read.

So anyway - have you read much Grim?
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Post Post #415 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:26 pm

Post by fferyllt »

In post 413, Lynx_Shine wrote:Bauss's flip has me side-eyeing ffery,
You've been side-eyeing me since just about your first post. What did bauss' flip add to the mix? And what did you think about his other reads?
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Post Post #416 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:19 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

Hello everyone. Still need to read up on half of the game, should be able to post something substantial today.
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Post Post #417 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:01 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

Made it to page 8 now. Lots of walls :p

Already gonig to bring up some things:

I really felt strong agreement when reading post , which is likeabauss' case on fferylt.
Fferyllt's replies in and are petty at best.

This short interactions screamed "SCUM USSING" to me:
In post 153, fferyllt wrote:
In post 150, imkingdavid wrote:fferyllt - is your vote on me simply pressure or what? I see in #133 you say that bauss is your "strongest scum read" but I don't see a vote on him. I find it odd that you'd place your first vote in the game on a self-admitted inactive player rather than on your strongest suspect. Also, you're voting me, as I understand it, due to inactivity. But as others have rightfully pointed out, you've done a lot of talking without saying much (up till recently when you posted your reads on a few players). I don't see the difference between my inactive inactivity and your active inactivity.

Anyway, I won't be voting you at the moment. Inactivity is a fact and not really something you can defend against, and I don't find it strong enough to be a reason for you to be lynched, especially this early on.
That's two people who misunderstood my post about bauss. To clarify, bauss was my strongest scum read up to the point where he started making a case on me. He went from indirect to direct stance of attack, though I think his case is mostly rehashing others' comments.

I never put a vote down purely for pressure. If I vote then at that point in the game, I am willing to lynch. You have been inactive, though you've been slightly more of a presence than Lynx. But, lynx' two posts had IMO good, thoughtful content and questions. I like questions. Prior to this, though you had 5 posts, there was only one with even a little bit of content.
(note: imkingdavid was replaced by Cheery Dog)

I find the whole thing cringeworthy. First, imkingdavid sets himself up for an awesome argument against fferyllt: fferyllt is voting him due to inactivity (which, from an experienced IC, is a truly awful substitute for actual scumhunting and using your vote as a pressure-tool), while she claims to have a stronger scumread on someone else. This in itself is bizarre.
Yet instead of pointing that out, he doesn't really comment on the bad vote, but on fferyllt's "active inactivity". Which is also a good argument. A very good one. Someone "playing active" who votes "someone obviously inactive" has a tad of hypocrisy around them, and I don't like it.

But imkingdavid's reasons for not voting fferyllt really take the cake. "I won't vote you because inactivity can't be defended against". Really? He just explained the difference between "active inactivity" and the inactive kind. Surely you can explain yourself for having dissappointing content in your posts?
He also says "Not strong enough for a reason to be lynched?"? Who's talking about a lynch already? We're talking about a vote. Pressure.
Somehow the idea of fferyllt being lynched is prevalent in his mind, and the only reason I can think of as to why that is, is because fferyllt is his scumbuddy he's slightly bussing but is at the same time worried it would get her lynched as an end-result.

Fferyllt's reaction to it also sounds completely unnatural to me, first of all for not noticing the things I just noticed, or not appearing to. But she did. And that's why she distances herself. She uses very strong talk through expressing her willingness to lynch him because he's been too little of a presence. Again it's hypocritical in a way, and "willing toh ave someone lynched" because they posted five times and only meaningful once doesn't seem like an argument that would come naturally to anyone.

Right now I'm thinking fferyllt and Cheery Dog are the scum.

Be back later with further catch-ups. I realize this isn't the way this is usually done, but this conversation really stood out for me tremendously. Too bad imkingdavid replaced out.
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Post Post #418 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:02 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

SCUM USSING = SCUM BUSSING

Putting a typo in the all caps-phrase, way to make a first impression. :mrgreen:
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Post Post #419 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:00 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 179, likeabauss wrote:Kueshina is on my tentative town list. My original read was that something was off, so I prodded and questioned, even tossed a little bait in there. I applied some heat and even was insulting. Here's what I took away:

Kue is a stranger in a strange land. Playing mafia here, learning the play here... All the responses seem in line with this and genuine in nature. This alone doesn't read town, it's null. But...

Kue is not afraid to think out loud. We saw some funny exchanges, discussion of mass claims, questions about roles, misunderstanding of RVS, and logic that didn't quite compute. A noob to the board that drew a scum role would be afraid of doing any of those things... Especially on day 1 without much coaching or background. (I'd expect a more lurky Day 1 in that scenario)

Kue recognizes that townies need to share ideas and foster discussion. I believe we've seen an answer to every question asked directly, answers to open ended questions, as well as attempts to explore what little data we have. Also, I see scum hunting without being prodded, right out of the gate. Instead of saying "Not much to work with", Kue spotted some things nobody else made mention of and pointed them out.

The "off" part I intend to explore as the game goes on, but I have a few ideas about it and most of them support a town read.
Agreed again.

How did this guy get lynched? :?
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Post Post #420 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:14 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

I hate , Cheery Dog's catch-up post. I didn't read further but I'm guessing this is what got the likeabauss)wagon going.

Very devious.

90% of that catch-up post is talk about game-theory and responses to questions about gameplay-mechanics and the like.
He then votes likeabauss over the reason that likeabauss "makes deals": tit for tat, my reads for yours, etc.
What the hell is so scummy about that? I find it a very ingeneuos way of including everyone into the discussions with their views on things. He wasn't simply standing by in the background, waiting to copy reads from others. He rarely did, from what I've seen.

This guy was obvtown and got lynched, there's most definitely scum on that wagon, and it's obvious it's experienced scum because there's no way newbies could have set him up like that. Damn.
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Post Post #421 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:26 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 195, Cheery Dog wrote:
In post 187, fferyllt wrote:Some of your reads/implied reads confuse me.
Most of them are implied, and I'm not even sure which way with those.

I guess I can actually put them into factual reads so you don't have to try and figure out what I'm implying.
Overall, Jason, Lynx, Kues are town reads. cAPS, trollie and shinox are nullish. You're probably my second suspect with buass obviously being my suspect.
This is the first post after the catch-up.

Note the difference in tone:

"Fferyllt is
probably
a second suspect" : no commitment to that read whatsoever.
"Bauss
obviously
being my suspect": it is very smart. The mere length of his catch-up post seems to imply he's got loads of arguments against the guy that make his scumminess
obvious
. In the meantime he puts his (at least I think) partner down as some form of scumread (again with little arguments, and with little commitment), this is a textbook bus really.

I realize I'ms tarting to tunnel on these two slots, but so far it looks pretty obvious to me.

When looking at others, I see TheTrollie how I know him from another (ongoing) game, JasonWazza being disinterested, Lynx making very good analyses so far, cAPSLOCK (my slot) getitng into what I consider a senseless town-vs-town tunnel rooted in inactivty of both slots.

To be honest I thought sikon was pretty scummy from what I have read uptil now, really milking out his "newbie-status" way too often, but the night flip proved me wrong.

His kill also points to scumb eing on the likeaboss wagon. Why? Because he had a very similar playstyle a slikeabauss. A playstyle that obviously irked scum, and rightly so.
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Post Post #422 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:34 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

So much love for .

Really guys, you should be ashamed for lynching this gem.
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Post Post #423 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:37 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 213, fferyllt wrote:
In post 212, cAPSLOCK wrote:
In post 210, fferyllt wrote:What do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of full, ranked reads lists?

This is not exactly a random question. It's relevant to player behaviors in this game.

This, like poker, is an incomplete information game. The advantages and disadvantages are intertwined... Even the same.

Lists give information. That information is useful to both town and scum. But in the end I believe it does town more good as town has much much much less info to start with. So to me, more information is always good.
I feel this way in general about mafia, but regarding reads lists I have seen some downsides, especially in games where players' relative skill levels aren't entirely clear. Specifically, I have seen that the scum teams will pore over town reads lists in choosing their night kills, and players getting huge praise for being uber town move up in kill priority, excluding whatever power-role hunting the scum team is able to do.

In games where some players' skill levels are known, then players' abilities factor into the kill and other scum-target decisions - read accuracy, ability to build bandwagons, scumhunting, etc.
A good description of how sikon's kill came to be before the fact.
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Post Post #424 (ISO) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:40 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 216, Cheery Dog wrote:
In post 211, likeabauss wrote:Also, take into consideration that at the time, we had a number of players who weren't posting much. I like to try and draw people into the game, so sometimes I throw out a curve ball and see who swings. You'll note I've tried to engage a few different people by non-conventional methods this game. (specifically Kueshina, cAPSLOCK, Fferyllt, and JasonWazza.) If you want me to clarify on any of those instances, I'm happy to.
The non-conventional methods are what I'm asking about, specifically all the times you've asked someone to give reasons for their read with bribery that you'll then follow up with your reasons for a read on someone else.
Why don't you just give your reasons at that stage,
because they shouldn't be effected by what someone's reasons on somebody different are
Urgh, what an uncalled for implication. Misrep to the power of misrep. Look at where the pressure on likeabauss is coming from: Cheery Dog and fferyllt. This reeks.
Locked