Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Katsuki]

Well, you can ask, but I won't necessarily answer.

[fferyllt]

My post 180, which was in reply to Syr asking me why I was reading Pjo as town. I replied that I liked Pjo's "lil dashes". I thought Pjo's role PM must have mentioed me in some way. So, I tried to quietly signal back to him "I'm here". And I was happy to think that his role was town until Amrun went after me on day 3.

So, why does this make me town? Well, because if it had been a scum ploy between Pjo and me, then Amrun wouldn't have gone after me. Of if she had, and it had been a tactic to sacrifice say one scum player to save another (something we now know wasn't happening on day 3) then I wouldn't have blown the lid off her role by calling her out over Pjo's posts. I would have gone quietly if my team wanted to bus me.

Syr argued that I couldn't be scum if Amrun were town because I would have made sure a town PR I detected would die early. That's true. But that's not the circumstance. Either Amrun and I are both scum, or I am town and she is scum. The strongest evidence that she and I aren't scum together is my reaction to her FoSes and votes on day 3 and 4. I went back and forth between paranoia that she was scum, and trust that she was a town PR working some crazy gambit that I couldn't follow. Day 4 in particular, I cycled through paranoia in trust in very short order after she made a case that I was scum with Syr and voted Syr whlle saying I was her stronger scum read. That was really the moment when I should have dropped trust entirely, lil dashes or no.

The main problem with my play this game is that I became very fatalistic and by day 2 expected to be an early mislynch.

[fferyllt]

Well, you can ask, but I won't necessarily answer.

Well, if you are town, I need to find good reasons to believe it, because at some point we three start throwing votes down.

[Katsuki]

Nah that's not exactly how LYLO works.

[sword_of_omens]

reading today....will be posting my thoughts and questions shortly...

[sword_of_omens]

OK..starting with Katsuki, as i’ve been leaning on Ffery-scum, and i want to try and re-read her with a fresh set of eyes so as to be as unbiased as possible seeing as it’s lylo...

D1
Matt chases after Kats as scum... Kats (as scum) could have hard-bussed Egg setting up Matt for D2 mislynch (Egg replaced out quickly, Antagon had a lot of heat on him, and also flipped Vanilla Scum, so this scenario is plausible given that Egg/Anta looks to be pretty expendable)...The reason for this as scum would be for town cred on the scum lynch, and to get support for a D2 Matt lynch...although it seems to be an excessive amount of work for an unknown payout...However, seeing as Hp also had a lot of controversy on him, Kats could have easily quieted down, let Hp get mislynched, and then take up the rally on Anta/Matt the next day..Instead, Kats actively calls for, and continues to push, Anta’s lynch...this doesn't seem like a scum play to me...

D1 ends...
Anta is lynched.
Enomis is NK’d


D2 Kats pushes for Matt lynch, and fails..Matt changes Kats read to town
Hp is mislynched
Matt is NK’d
if Kats’ goal from the beginning was to get rid of Matt mainly because he was a threat then this could also make some sense..except Matt had changed his read on Kats from scum to town..also Matt did claim VT, so there should be more viable targets out there for scum Kats to kill... Matt also had other people interested in his lynch, as he was Hp’s only real competing wagon that day...this NK target doesn’t make sense at all no matter how you look at it...he could have easily been targeted the next day as a very viable mislynch...

Day2 ends...
Hp is lynched
MattP is NK’d



D3
With Kats’ two scumreads gone he moves over to Tierce
#1101 Kats agrees with Tammy stating that Amrun is selectively applying scumminess
Kats and Tierce go back and forth in thread
Changes mind on Tierce, (trusting Tammy’s read) states that he doen’t want to lynch implosion..and instead plans to target OS, Zd, SoO, for the Hp mislynch
Runs out of time and Votes implosion
Tierce did call out Kats for for changing his mind from Tierce-scum to Tierce-town based on Tammy’s townread of her...
Kats also replies the following to Tierce:
“4. If by limping away from a dead wagon you mean having to compromise on someone who I don't really want to lynch due to deadline then sure. But if he's flipping town there are major problems with this last line of yours in the post above”.
implying that if Imp flips town then Tierce looks very suspect...If Kats is scum, then this gives him a viable mislynch target to pursue for the next day, however, Tierce was NK’s that night instead..

D3 ends...
Implosion is lynched
Tierce is NK’d


D4
Gets a little sticky for me
Starts the day with SoO or OS for scum.
Attacks OS pretty heavily and now comments on Amrun and “Tar”: saying that Tar is always scum and always a powerful PR, and that Amrun,(if scum) is most likely lying about her role..
However, he is still happy pursuing OS for lynch.
Other notes (which i’ll get into later, down below) :
#1346 “I agree with Zdenek regarding Amrun.”.
And #1363 – “I'm ok with lynching SOO. Hadn't noticed what zdenek pointed out before. It's similar to what antagon did.
We should agree what universe Amrun should be checking tonight”
His #1368 is a pretty decent post, where he gives his (possible) final reads: Tammy town, felt better about Zd, OS scum and Syr most likely scum

D4 ends...
No Lynch goes through
Tammy is Nk’d


D5
Starts day voting OS
Not much here, except he calls out Syr on an OS vote but misread the VC..

D5 ends...
OS is lynched
Zdenek dies




D6
Starts day with possibility of one of Amrun/SoO is scum based on PR spec...Ferry as town, and a FOS on Syr
Questions Amrun but still thinks Syr is the play for lynch...
Kats shows up at twilight due to being sidetracked (i could see this as maybe scum waiting for a possible No Lynch), however, he does ask the following:
"(Also how ballsy would you guys (Syr and Amrun) be to powerbus each other in LYLO?)"
This could be seen as trying to set up next day lylo with Syryana as a very likely mislynch..however, Syryana is NK’d that night...
It doesn’t seem to make sense as Kats scum to kill off Syr after making that comment to Syr..

D6 ends...
Amrun is lynched
Syryana is Nk’d



******


@Katsuki – this is actually a very good point:

Pjo somehow knew that YOU were rainbowdash, which should not be possible without role info. Tammy only knew that Zdenek's role was in the game, but not WHO.

@Kats -
i would like clarification on something in regards to your ISO...I came across something, and I’m trying to understand why you didn’t really pressure or vote Amrun sooner, given what you had said…

Amrun’s

The color part is really not the part that is important. The important part is that it makes extremely little sense for scum to ghost hammer since Antagon was scum, and it makes EVEN LESS SENSE for TOWN to ghost hammer ESPECIALLY since no one has fessed up today.
The only other thing that even remotely makes sense is hp leaves being a big scum power (since Antagon was vanilla scum as far as I can tell), which STILL make hp leaves scum, sooooooooooooooooo.

Which you followed right up with:

Vi games always has Tar. And Tar is always scum.

Once Amrun claimed “Tar” you stated:

We're short on time so I'll comment on Amrun's role too. So far I don't know what to think of it. I have no idea what the chances of Vi giving town both a flavour cop and Tarharlandur... Tar is historically ALWAYS scum in Vi games, and usually the most powerful or unique PR on the scumteam. Role is only useful for confirming other roles, which would suggest that, if town, that scum have roles where they'd have an incentive to lie about their rolename?

#1346 You then agreed with Zdenek in regards to Amrun looking scummy based on her posting times,
#1363 You then said that you would be fine lynching me and asked what Universe Amrun should check:
Even after OS was lynched, and although you did attack Amrun for her not posting during mylo yesterday , you still thought Syr was the play..

Can you please walk me through your thought process on Amrun, based on what you knew about Tar with regards to Vi games, please?

[Katsuki]

Yeah I don't think I ever went through completely on my amrun scummy read. I would never have expected scum to claim Tar, and in all honesty I think this made me hesitant on her. Anyone who's played Vi games (I've played in most of them I think), knows that Tar is always scum. Hence Amrun claiming Tar made me go wat, is Vi mindfucking us here? Beyond that, I simply didn't put the thought I should have before LYLO.

Eh, D6 there was no way I was voting Syry, given her play, Tar claim, and also the VERY start of D6 where she [REDACTED BECAUSE VI THINKS THIS IS TALKING ABOUT ONGOING GAMES]. But pretty much Ellitell confirmed amrun as scum. '


Oh and rereading your post, I never ended up going on Amrun sooner because there was always someone who was scummier to me, starting with Matt, Tierce and OS. So she kept getting bumped down the priority list so much that she escaped my focus until that last day, where she was the highest on my scumlist.

[Vi]

~Vote Count LXIII

Not Voting:

fferyllt, Katsuki, sword_of_omens,

--With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
--Deadline is 18:30 EDT on July 12, 2013.

(Only got 2 days left)

[Katsuki]

Vote: VI

[sword_of_omens]

The other ISO, and questions will have to come tomorrow, as i am leaving work now...

[fferyllt]

Was hoping there would be some actual conversation today.

[Katsuki]

How's your day been so far, ffery?

[fferyllt]

I've spent a chunk of it wondering if it's you or SoO who are town.

The thing that argues most strongly against SoO-scum is Pjo's day 1. Hard to believe that he'd hard-bus one partner and soft-bus the other. Though there was very little chance the wagon would have moved from Antagon to SoO. MattP or me, maybe.

The thing that argues most strongly against you-scum is your "ast will and testament post on the day that your wagon got to L-2 and we had a nolynch.

[fferyllt]

Welp.

No idea who's scum but it probably doesn't matter given that I'm going to be the lynch for today anyways.

Thinking about things, we've had nothing but vanilla claims. If both SOO and Amrun are scum it would mean that town was completely powerless outside the cultilante. Zde has SOO read as more likely to be scum, and I have Amrun leaning scum, but I really don't think both of them are scum?

Ffery I still don't have a scumread on so if she's scum then :/.

I'll refrain from voting just yet, but consider this a vote for Syry.

FOS: SYRY

This is the post I'm thinking about.

It's like we all but forgot the double vote when it didn't show up again.

[Katsuki]

Oh I remember now.

@SOO: Need to add something. Yeah I did say I thought syry was vote for day at the beginning, but what syry said about Amrun's investigation on me cleared him of being scum.

[Katsuki]

Oh and ffery since SOO isn't here and nor is anyone else to entertain you, why would SOO be less town than me?

[fferyllt]

Oh and ffery since SOO isn't here and nor is anyone else to entertain you, why would SOO be less town than me?

Day 1 his first reads list: 255

TLDR:
Town ---> Scum
Zdenek
Zach
Enomis
Syryana
Oversoul
MattP
Tammy
Tierce
Katsuki
Implosion
Eggplant
MrBungle
Fferyll
Pjo

He later voted Pjo.

When Pjo was replaced he moved his vote.

583 Here he's setting up trajectory to move to hp leaves, but remember that reads list...he had me as more scummy than MrBungle.

802He moves his vote to hp_leaves, staying off the Antagon wagon.

HP[leaves] - the Bungle I played with as town was much more active and aggressive than he was here…Him and I went at it in DBZ Mafia We were both town in that game, but in that one he posted with actual thought content …whereas here, he did nothing but one-line posts, and flip/flopped on Fferyl for no real reason at all, which is a complete opposite of that… Fferyl was also in that game..This is also why I was concerned with her giving Bungle a town read so early… His play here doesn’t reflect that at all…hp[leaves] hadn’t done much to alleviate the concerns that I have for that slot…He votes Antagon, while saying Matt should be next…and then later follows up with “we can chase after SoO next”.

I’d prefer to lynch hp[leaves], as I am willing to wait on Antagon on the off-chance that he’s town (although I’d still like him to answer my question)]HP[leaves] - the Bungle I played with as town was much more active and aggressive than he was here…Him and I went at it in DBZ Mafia We were both town in that game, but in that one he posted with actual thought content …whereas here, he did nothing but one-line posts, and flip/flopped on Fferyl for no real reason at all, which is a complete opposite of that… Fferyl was also in that game..This is also why I was concerned with her giving Bungle a town read so early… His play here doesn’t reflect that at all…hp[leaves] hadn’t done much to alleviate the concerns that I have for that slot…He votes Antagon, while saying Matt should be next…and then later follows up with “we can chase after SoO next”.

I’d prefer to lynch hp[leaves], as I am willing to wait on Antagon on the off-chance that he’s town (although I’d still like him to answer my question)

He goes after hp again on day 2, and his case is once again all about what he calls a weird interaction between MrBungles and me. But, no vote on me even though it's a second day of suspicion swirling around me. 919, he replies to my questions about why he pushed bungles and then hp over me.

Day 3 1168 he votes...not me but implosion. He says that hp's flip changed his mind about me and now sets sights on Amrun.

Ffery – I originally did not like her town read she gave to Bungle for flip-flopping on her which I already explained…hp’s flip made me question my read on her and when I went back and reread her I did notice that the miscount on the Egg Wagon (that I had originally questioned) had to have been an honest miscount..while that in itself is not alignment indicative, it still gave me a better feeling about her…MattP’s kill also helped sway me towards town Ffery, mainly because he had just got done telling her she wasn’t really a scum read of his, she would have had no real reason to kill him now that he wouldn’t be pressuring her anymore…although with implosion flipping town, I think Matt’s kill had to have been for WIFOM…Ffery did admit to thinking that Amrun (as Pjo) had copped her based on the “lil dash” flavor of Pjo’s posts and for that reason put Pjo/Amrun into the town pile…
If Ferry was scum, and knew that Amrun was town, then I would think that Pjo/Amrun would’ve been a priority target for her..If Ferry is scum, then Amrun would have to be scum as well.]Ffery – I originally did not like her town read she gave to Bungle for flip-flopping on her which I already explained…hp’s flip made me question my read on her and when I went back and reread her I did notice that the miscount on the Egg Wagon (that I had originally questioned) had to have been an honest miscount..while that in itself is not alignment indicative, it still gave me a better feeling about her…MattP’s kill also helped sway me towards town Ffery, mainly because he had just got done telling her she wasn’t really a scum read of his, she would have had no real reason to kill him now that he wouldn’t be pressuring her anymore…although with implosion flipping town, I think Matt’s kill had to have been for WIFOM…Ffery did admit to thinking that Amrun (as Pjo) had copped her based on the “lil dash” flavor of Pjo’s posts and for that reason put Pjo/Amrun into the town pile…
If Ferry was scum, and knew that Amrun was town, then I would think that Pjo/Amrun would’ve been a priority target for her..If Ferry is scum, then Amrun would have to be scum as well.

and

Amrun – I’d actually like to revist the Pjo/Amrun slot…I really did not like the way Pjo started the game…at all…his attack on me was horribly scummy…also, at the time I thought his Universe mass claim was bad…even with Amrun’s claim now as a flavor cop (I don’t doubt her role), although I do doubt her alignment…I have been burned multiple times by scum cops, claiming to be town…I admit, I had put her on the back-burner once she and Tierce got into it…I did not have a definitive read on Tierce, so the interaction between the two was welcome for me..it did not read to me as scum buddies trying to fake an argument in thread .. I was hoping more would come from it…also, depending on the results that Amrun claims, we could lynch her to see if she is telling the truth…if she is telling the truth , then we have a list of confirmed town..if he isn’t then we are down 1 scum. Thoughts on this?

1451 He says he wants to lynch from Syr, Amrun or me. But he says this really late, after Oversoul is already at L-1. Over and over again his votes come so late that they have little impact and often as not he's not on the main bandwagon. In his Amrun vote post he posts this blurb about me.

Ffery - Ffery refrained from voting end of D1…she did vote Egg, but immediately unvoted as soon as Tierce asked for one…she also gave Bungle a town read for flip-flopping on her without reason (which still does not make sense)…she already had her “gut read” that Pjo was town, and then she gave Zdenek a town read right after his #402 which he stated it wasn’t a big deal about whether or not she was buddying Pjo and that Pjo was a better target for scum, anyway…
She never gives scum reads on anyone
in the game, either…
her #651 was an ISO wall of Zach that she said was negative, but then at the end of it she never really clarifies what her stance on him is. I think the closest she got to an actual scum read was hp and me…and she never really even pursued either one of us..she kept pushing off her scum-read of hp saying that he was scummy, but wanting to wait on voting for him (#900)
She did do an ISO read of me, which she called out as “pretty bad” right after in her #901, but again doesn’t place a vote or even try to pursue me…even though she again says “I don't think I've ever had as strong a negative read from SoO's posts before” in her #907.
She instead votes hp when he antagonizes the non voters...
Next she states that she is leaning scum on Implosion and me...mainly because she was thinking about sheeping Matt’s list..when asked point blank by Syr who her scum reads are she says they are in disarray, and again says she was thinking about sheeping Matt’s list. She votes Implosion.
Next day she starts out voting Amrun and has a quick back and forth with her stating this:

It's maddening. I'm always in the center of his web of scummy players but he always goes after someone else, not the person who he CONNECTS them to in his reads.

1495

Fferry,

You and Anrun make the most sense to me as a scum team...
i've started in my previous post how it looks that way... why did I pick her over you as far as voting? prretty sure I also stated why.. I've been burned again and again on scum cops...FF6 mafia, Diddin claimed name cop, and went all the way through the end and won for scum...90's Cartoin maf, MichelSablehart claimed name cop and although we did finally lynch him after me pressing everybody, scum still went on to win that game... so i kind of hold a persinal grudge against nontradtional cops, especially if I think they are scum...and especially when it might lose us the game..

but like I said, I woukd have been happy with either of you...

I still haven't re-read like I wanted to, but should be getting to that tonight...

And then he votes Amrun on day 6 and that is awesome. He picked Amrun over me at what was LYLO. But, did he have a choice? Syr and I were absolutely voting her. And I think that's where you were leaning, too. I wasn't voting Syr yesterday. Voting other than Amrun would just have exposed whoever was scum of the three of us.

If he's scum, day 1 was an amazing amount of cross-bussing, and that keeps me second guessing myself.

Because it is almost as improbable as me dumping Pjo's breadcrumbs on Amrun on day 3 after she kept FoSing me. If we were a scum team and she had decided to bus me no way I would have done that.

[Katsuki]

I was leaning Amrun pretty much after the first half of the first day of D6, just that I never expressed it in the thread. Who knows, but considering he thought I was leaning Syry, there was no need for him to push Amrun,

[fferyllt]

I was leaning Amrun pretty much after the first half of the first day of D6, just that I never expressed it in the thread. Who knows, but considering he thought I was leaning Syry, there was no need for him to push Amrun,

Interesting.

[Katsuki]

Inorite? ^^

[Vi]

The Apocalypse has arrived and it has taken my computer with it. One way or another I will see this game through but flashy stuff may be significantly reduced. Carry on wayward players.

[Katsuki]

Howfitting...

[Vi]

A little less than 25 hours left. Tasteful result of image search for ominous world ending death cloud to be edited in here. This only serves to reinforce how much I scorn phoneposting.

[sword_of_omens]

incoming....

[fferyllt]

good. plz hang around after you post your analysis.