NY 165: A Large Normal (Game Over!)

[Baby Spice]

Ugggghhhhh I can't right now for nacho

For mastin, he reacts a LOT stronger to people voting him than he has

As part of a hydra? I react way less strongly to votes as part of a hydra. It's a division of labor sort of thing. I think mastin sees himself as the minority partner in the Calcifer enterprise. I'm focusing mostly on reading Nacho.

Nacho reaches out as town and takes a lot of control
a

Actually, that reasoning would make sense. Even with Mastin complaining earlier about carrying more of the hydra load than originally intended if I remember correctly.

[Baby Spice]

Oh I just realized that was referring to someone in the hydra

Your post was a good shortcut to grabbing the quotes I wanted while phone posting.

[StubbsKVM]

Starting my catchup on page 86...

Those night kills don't really tell me anything yet. TIP...okay...But Prohawk? I remember he was high on someone's scumlist, but can't remember who...

I'll gladly go 1v1 with you and stake my whole reputation on it.

Vote: DOMO

Zdenek immediately voting Stevie is questionable, because he was on the Nero wagon.
If he had continued to vote Stevie until the end of day 1, it would not have been so suspicious.
The fact that he votes DOMO for questioning it, I don't really understand.

My BRO iso is 2/3rds of the way done, I'll try and get it out tonight.

Congratulations on taking 2 weeks to iso 1 guy.

Reminder to self: start from 2191

[DOMO]

Actually, this current version of the wagon was started by Zdenek voting for the "slip". You had hopped off earlier.

This is true. I breifly voted for ank, then voted for you again. That doesn't mean that the only reason I voted for you again is because of the language issue that zdenek pointed out. Do I really need to go over that ground again to justify my vote?

You knew that your reason for hopping on our wagon (the "slip") was opportunistic, so you had to bring other reasons into play, none of which you mentioned upon your revote

Lots of votes can be perceived as opportunistic. Seeing as I was first to vote for you today, I don't see this as one of them.

Essentially, you made up reasons to stay on the wagon when you realized your current BS reason couldn't sustain it.

This is an outright lie.

I see you've dropped the "Bulb's Stevie vote was baseless" line of attack.

I haven't. My initital reaction to your vote was that I didn't like it, it pinged pretty hard, along with zdenek. It's certainly a contributary factor. I still assert that town would be more likely than scum to reassess their reads based on night actions. You did not.

He's essentially saying that we are scum for refusing to partake in a bunch of WIFOM speculation concerning the NKs, and instead decided to scumhunt.

No, my attack began as a result of you refusing to acknowledge the night actions. It's not the only reason I voted for you. So you're not scum just because you didn't take into account night actions, you're scum for other reasons I've pointed out, cheifly because you're lining up my mislynch when multiball becomes obvious.

In fact, my main point of contention was the fact that you FoS us only after you realized you had been tunneling Zdenek so long for something that both of us had done, essentially making sure that you weren't called out for being selective.

I was tunnelling zdenek? Only because he was active before you. I had every intention of engaging with you both.

Or you can use the 2 kills to say that we're in multiball so it looks like you're town who's legit scumhunting.

This argument is heavily flawed. I've already explained why. Why would scum get towncred for scumhunting when town are aware of the possibility of multiball? Town cred only exists for scumhunting when town do not consider multiball. If I'm scum, I'm using the multiball comments to look like town speculating, not to give my scumhunting credit, because it discredits my scumhunting. Hence, the scum motivation is thin.

There is if you are trying to convince town that you are town who is scumhunting in an effort to gain town points.

But if town know scum are scumhtuning, why am I going to get town cred for scumhunting if I'm scum? Like I say, a heavily flawed argument.

As you can see, by saying what you said when you said it, you were clearly implying that we were in multiball, not that we might be in multiball, a distinction which I clearly caught and pointed out.

You have interpreted my comments in a way which gives you ground for attack. This is misrepping, and it's doesn't look like a town misrep to me.

Why don't any of them make sense as vig. targets?

Because neither were particularly scummy. There's many better targets imo. That's just my opinion, hence it being my opinion that we're multiball.

Basically, your case seems to be my speculation and WIFOM. These are very null tells for me. Do some rev meta and find me a game where I don't speculate and talk WIFOM.

I'm still convinced you're scum. What you're doing here, imo, is exactly what you're accusing me of... using legit scumhunting to give yourself towncred. I suspect you are scum who thinks I'm on the other scum team. You're wrong.

[StubbsKVM]

Okay now I'm at the part of Bulbafenix's contradiction. That does look bad. If nothing changes, my vote goes to him.

He was confirmed as innocent child a while ago.

I did not see that anywhere. Looks like others haven't either.

Okay, some discussion about linguistics there. I can't say much about it, as English isn't even my native language. So I'll assume BRO is right on this. I'm still conflicted over whether to think Bulba is scum or not.

I agree with Domo that it's weird Ank does not address Serene, while claiming Dramonic is scum. Those 2 are connected due to their mason claim.

Domo vs BulbaFenix now? This doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Okay I've caught up.

Calcifer's innocent child mention is very weird. I'd like him to comment on this, as it has faded away due to the Bulba/Domo/Zdenek cases.

I'm also interested in hearing Ankamius's read on Serene.

VOTE: Stevie

[Serene]

Nice fake catch up post, scum.

DOMO is town. Zdenek is town. He-Who-Cannot-Be-Lynched is town.

Take that, kitty kat.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Okay fuck what when did calc turn town

[StubbsKVM]

Whatever serene, you've already proven to be antitown by pushing the Nero lynch. I don't see Why I should care about anything you say.

[Rift Adrift]

Okay fuck what when did calc turn town

And why? They haven't posted since all the stuff serene wrote about their being unllynchable.

[Serene]

Why I should care about anything you say.

I'm supposed to care whether or not a lurking scumbag gives my posts thought and consideration? You're not my intended audience DIE SCUM DIE also I like the timing of your comment, coming right after I correctly pegged you as scum.

[Serene]

Okay fuck what when did calc turn town

Just now, you can sheep him. It's safe.

[Zdenek]

Metal Sonic is scummy for voting me for voting BulbaF, but ignoring everyone else's votes on that wagon. It's classic selective scum hunting.

Zdenek immediately voting Stevie is questionable, because he was on the Nero wagon.
If he had continued to vote Stevie until the end of day 1, it would not have been so suspicious.
The fact that he votes DOMO for questioning it, I don't really understand.

I pushed Stevie as much as I could day one, and got nowhere, so I moved my vote.
I voted DOMO because of his idiotic argument against me that was so contrived that I could not believe that it came from town. Now, I don't know.
I don't see at all how me fixing my vote on Stevie would make it less suspicious. Explain that too me.

Okay now I'm at the part of Bulbafenix's contradiction. That does look bad. If nothing changes, my vote goes to him.

He was confirmed as innocent child a while ago.

I did not see that anywhere. Looks like others haven't either.

Okay, some discussion about linguistics there. I can't say much about it, as English isn't even my native language. So I'll assume BRO is right on this. I'm still conflicted over whether to think Bulba is scum or not.

I agree with Domo that it's weird Ank does not address Serene, while claiming Dramonic is scum. Those 2 are connected due to their mason claim.

Domo vs BulbaFenix now? This doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Okay I've caught up.

Calcifer's innocent child mention is very weird. I'd like him to comment on this, as it has faded away due to the Bulba/Domo/Zdenek cases.

I'm also interested in hearing Ankamius's read on Serene.

VOTE: Stevie

So you think that the BulbaF thing isn't going anywhere but the Stevie thing is?
You haven't given a read on DOMO, you've scarcely said a word about Bulba and Stevie was a town read of yours until recently.

[Serene]

So you think that the BulbaF thing isn't going anywhere but the Stevie thing is?

This may be a whiteknight-BFenix, bus-Stevie combo.

[The Goat]

Why I should care about anything you say.

I'm supposed to care whether or not a lurking scumbag gives my posts thought and consideration? You're not my intended audience DIE SCUM DIE also I like the timing of your comment, coming right after I correctly pegged you as scum.

Whoah.

Did you really ask why you should care if he cares what you say?

*deep breath*

Okay, I'll do it.

Why should we care if you care if he cares what you say?

I await your well thought-out reply in all caps.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Dram needs to be vigged

[Rift Adrift]

and Stevie was a town read of yours until recently

If the rest wasn't more or less accurate, this phrase would make me seriously wonder if we are reading the same game. What led you to this impression of Stubb's reads?

[Zdenek]

and Stevie was a town read of yours until recently

If the rest wasn't more or less accurate, this phrase would make me seriously wonder if we are reading the same game. What led you to this impression of Stubb's reads?

I ISO'd him and searched for references to Stevie.
He was defending him (quite aggressively), and then voted him for not posting content, and then had little to say until this.

[BROseidon]

Wait, what the fuck? You get the shit animal while she gets the good one? I'd give up the kids, house and car before the dog. A cat is worth a piece of art, and not a very good piece at that.
Unless it's a cat that plays chess. Does the cat play chess?

I agree with DOMO on something for once.

[BROseidon]

3) Nice job giving a justification for your Nero vote when I didn't even mention that as a point against you AT ALL. Why haven't you "eaten rope" yet?

Was in response to:

Why do you dislike Serene but don't mention the possibilty of Nero being scum for doing the same thing? Is it because Serene is your buddy?

I figured the stuff in that block quote you posted was from bad quote tags. Was I wrong?

[Serene]

Dram needs to be vigged

Said the player who is

first in line

if the vig thirsts for town blood.

[BROseidon]

It would take an idiot vig to shoot Orc right now.

[Rift Adrift]

and Stevie was a town read of yours until recently

If the rest wasn't more or less accurate, this phrase would make me seriously wonder if we are reading the same game. What led you to this impression of Stubb's reads?

I ISO'd him and searched for references to Stevie.
He was defending him (quite aggressively), and then voted him for not posting content, and then had little to say until this.

You missed the posts where he repeatedly chivvied Stevie for his case on BRO?

[Rift Adrift]

Okay fuck what when did calc turn town

Just now, you can sheep him. It's safe.

Is this a consensus?

[BulbaFenix]

Ugggghhhhh I can't right now for nacho

For mastin, he reacts a LOT stronger to people voting him than he has

As part of a hydra? I react way less strongly to votes as part of a hydra. It's a division of labor sort of thing. I think mastin sees himself as the minority partner in the Calcifer enterprise. I'm focusing mostly on reading Nacho.

Nacho reaches out as town and takes a lot of control
a

Actually, that reasoning would make sense. Even with Mastin complaining earlier about carrying more of the hydra load than originally intended if I remember correctly.

Wouldn't this mean that Calcifer is likely town, since Mastin assumed Nacho would be driving?

You knew that your reason for hopping on our wagon (the "slip") was opportunistic, so you had to bring other reasons into play, none of which you mentioned upon your revote

Lots of votes can be perceived as opportunistic. Seeing as I was first to vote for you today, I don't see this as one of them.

Here's the opportunistic part:

Interesting. When I first read that I thought it made sense, like "personally I do not believe the claim". But yeah on 2nd read that's bad.

vote bulbafenix

either or really

bulba's "slip" alone is not enough to warrant lynch, it's easy for him to say he also misread that statement.

Essentially, you jumped on the wagon for a contrived reason, which you admitted you knew what was actually said, then you said, "Well this contrived reason that I jumped on the wagon for is not going to sustain my position. Here are other reasons to justify my position on this wagon.".

Essentially, you made up reasons to stay on the wagon when you realized your current BS reason couldn't sustain it.

This is an outright lie.

No it's not. See above quote.

I see you've dropped the "Bulb's Stevie vote was baseless" line of attack.

I haven't. My initital reaction to your vote was that I didn't like it, it pinged pretty hard, along with zdenek. It's certainly a contributary factor. I still assert that town would be more likely than scum to reassess their reads based on night actions. You did not.

My read on Stevie was not influenced whatsoever by who died during the night.

He's essentially saying that we are scum for refusing to partake in a bunch of WIFOM speculation concerning the NKs, and instead decided to scumhunt.

No, my attack began as a result of you refusing to acknowledge the night actions. It's not the only reason I voted for you. So you're not scum just because you didn't take into account night actions, you're scum for other reasons I've pointed out, cheifly because you're lining up my mislynch when multiball becomes obvious.

Why would I acknowledge the night actions? They're essentially WIFOM. They serve no purpose but to confuse the town and distract from actual scumhunting. You know who does like to comment about night actions a lot? Scum.

Also, I noticed that you said "

when

multiball becomes obvious" not "

if

multiball becomes obvious". Again, you're working under the knowledge that multiball exists without confirmation from a flip. There is no way that town should be working under that assumption with as little knowledge as we have.

Or you can use the 2 kills to say that we're in multiball so it looks like you're town who's legit scumhunting.

This argument is heavily flawed. I've already explained why. Why would scum get towncred for scumhunting when town are aware of the possibility of multiball? Town cred only exists for scumhunting when town do not consider multiball. If I'm scum, I'm using the multiball comments to look like town speculating, not to give my scumhunting credit, because it discredits my scumhunting. Hence, the scum motivation is thin.

Using WIFOM again to try to discredit my argument. Unlike last time, however, I'm not going to dive into this one and further allow you to muddy the waters.

There is if you are trying to convince town that you are town who is scumhunting in an effort to gain town points.

But if town know scum are scumhtuning, why am I going to get town cred for scumhunting if I'm scum? Like I say, a heavily flawed argument.

Same thing here.

As you can see, by saying what you said when you said it, you were clearly implying that we were in multiball, not that we might be in multiball, a distinction which I clearly caught and pointed out.

You have interpreted my comments in a way which gives you ground for attack. This is misrepping, and it's doesn't look like a town misrep to me.

No, that is not a misrep, especially since I've explained clearly what you did and the scum motivation behind it. I looked at what you said given the context, and that was the most obvious interpretation. Words are important. Context is important. And given both, it becomes obvious from the way you entered the thread today that you were intent on announcing that we're in multiball, knowledge that town should not have had at this point. Yes, town might speculate saying "we might be in multiball" or "if we're in multiball", but you chose to enter the thread and say "Look, we're in multiball!". I do not see any town motivation whatsoever coming from that, only scum.

Basically, your case seems to be my speculation and WIFOM. These are very null tells for me. Do some rev meta and find me a game where I don't speculate and talk WIFOM.

Sorry. This is not going to work, especially since if you know your own meta, it is no longer reliable. Simply put, you could be scum using your town meta to make yourself appear town.

On another note, when did Calcifer and our hydra become town reads for Serene?

-Bulba

[Serene]

It would take an idiot vig to shoot Orc right now.

And you should be

second in line

if the vig thirsts for town blood.