Mini 1468: Legends of the Hidden Temple- Game Over!

[Grimgroove]

Amrun, your reads?

[Elyse]

@Elyse:

Why did you say "obviously we're both not scum" in the middle of that QT?

And Grim, we were talking about our alignments.

That doesn't even remotely answer the question. You said: we're "obviously" both not scum, meaning you thought/said he was "obviously" not scum. Why?

Oh I see what you mean.

No, I meant it like "one of us could be scum, but obviously both of us aren't."

[Haschel Cedricson]

The pool of players eligible to be lynched today consists of:

Amrun
enomis

Elyse
SafetyDance

Here are the current votes:

Amrun(3) - Venmar, Grimgroove, Wisdom
SafetyDance (3) - Majiffy, Elyse, Amrun
enomis(0) -
Elyse (0) -

Not Voting (4) - , enomis, pirate mollie, SafetyDance, AngryPidgeon,

With 10 players alive, it will take 6 votes to lynch.

[Venmar]

I'll be absent for the whole day today, but Amrun needs rope and rope needs more votes, so please lynch her.

[SafetyDance]

FFS. I can't remember the page I'm on, there's been a lynch I haven't read and I'm up for lynch. I can't handle this playlist, there's over 60 pages. It's too active. Way worse than Galatica.

@Mod, request to replace out please

[AngryPidgeon]

Seeing as how no one yet has gotten towncred for challenging, AND how the challenge pool was agreed upon yesterday, why would challenging give me towncred, exactly?

It worked just fine for Majiffy.

^. I think I cited him doing it as likely town. Also Venmar came out of yesterday looking more town than not.

But if what Wisdom said is true then my point was not only dumb but irrelevant.

[AngryPidgeon]

I might be down to just save Haschel the SD replacement.

[Wisdom]

I thought about that too, but Amrun first is better.

[AngryPidgeon]

Not Voting (4) - , enomis

I'd like to see this change.

Elyse, if you had to choose between Enomis and Amrun, which would you choose? Hypothetical question and all.

[Grimgroove]

I might be down to just save Haschel the SD replacement.

Me too.
Also for the replacement's sake, imagine catching up with 60 pages and get lynched immediately afterwards.
PoE has obviously proven not to be watertight because we seem to be lacking scum-suspects now, but at least he's still in there.
This is nightless so we can get to Amrun later at minimal cost.

[Wisdom]

Or we can lynch Amrun, let the replacement catch up and possibly give us a different, new view on things, and then we can still lynch them if we don't have any other suspects still.

[Grimgroove]

Yes, that's the least scummy way of looking at things, well done.
But it's very bothersome and requires patience. And faith that a replacement will be willing to do this.

[Wisdom]

I don't see why we should have to rush anything.

[Haschel Cedricson]

qwints has graciously volunteered to replace SafetyDance! Let's give him a warm welcome!

[Grimgroove]

Welcome and good luck!

VOTE: qwints

[Grimgroove]

just kidding, just wanted to sound bad-ass

VOTE: Amrun

[qwints]

/confirm

Reading. Now on p.6

[Wisdom]

Welcome

[Amrun]

Nobody Special (6) - Majiffy, SafetyDance, Wisdom, Elyse, Grimgroove, AngryPidgeon
Wisdom (1) - Venmar
AngryPidgeon (0) -
Venmar (0) -

Not Voting (5) - enomis, pirate mollie, Nobody Special, Amrun

This is the actual wagon that lynched NS, so I'll start here, but that's not the limitation of who interacted with the wagon/slot.

StrangerCoug (6) -

enomis

,

Venmar

,

Majiffy

,

pirate mollie

, Grimgroove, Nobody Special
Grimgroove (4) - AngryPidgeon, Wisdom, Elyse,

StrangerCoug

Majiffy (2) -

Amrun

,

SafetyDance

One of {AP/Elyse} scum, probably NS scum.

and where did everybody run off to I see people posting in other games but not this one. where is amrun she is the one who was all like "ack! ack! ack! don't end the day I am not throooooough!"

Yes.

This game got way too quiet. Way too many people sitting back and lurking when major discussion is going on.

Fuck you, honestly. I don't know why v/la is such a fucking difficult concept for people to grasp. Maybe if I was irresponsible and just didn't post for over a week people would fucking understand.

Trying to paint my infrequent phone posting as scummy when it's public knowledge I'm not around for this time frame is scummy as fuck.

Woah ok superdefensive.

---

Don't like that Amrun doesn't have time to be active in the game but has plenty of time to come in and lolhammer.

NS/Wisdom/AP are a great group to pick from for scum. Would have preferred lynching SD first, though.

VOTE: AP

Anyway.
enomis/Safety/Amrun/Elyse.
With Grimgroove or NS if any of them is wrong.
We lynch NS and we have the jaguars and the monkeys fight.
Are there disagreements on this?

I want this answered by everyone that is not in those four.

Take Enomis out, replace with NS, and we're on the same page.

Despite the fact that when NS was in the pool, Majiffy went for AP over NS without really mentioning NS, overall interactions indicate Majiffy town pretty well. I already had a townread on him, after some point yesterday, but I was still a little unsure. But now I feel pretty good putting Majiffy in the town pool.

Getting through this thread is like nails on a chalkboard at the moment. Will be more productive. Eventually.

If we're doing this soon, I have nfi about the deadline and without reading the last few pages, I'd be willing to challenge the Blues, Silvers or Purples at the moment.

Notable because contains NS (purples).

Yeah, yeah, prod received. I was struggling to read any game I was in over the the weekend.

I've been trying to catch up. I'm on page 38 which was like, only 6 hours ago and there's another 7 pages to go? All I see is like 40+ pages of egos floating around trying to bash the others into submission. Do you know how hard that is to sift through and analyse? >.<

Like fuuu.

Lmao @ Magiffy. You always read me as scum. In every single game. Love your epic skillz <3

Way I see it now I can see the scum team being Magiffy + NS + Venmar/Wisdom/AP + Enomis/Amrun/Elyse. Which probably isn't a good thing that I can't fit PM in there but she's a town read who could be coasting I suppose.

So from that vote pool, I can always get behind an NS lynch.

Vote: NS

I'm conflicted about this vote, but in the end, I've decided it's scummy.

a) Why would it be weird that he can't fit PM in there? It's literally like he was trying to fit EVERYONE in there, which is the opposite of what town would do.

b) Despite the fact that Venmar, Wisdom, and AP were all up for lynch, he plopped a lazy vote on NS (when there wasn't a real NS wagon). He doesn't try to determine their alignments at all; he isn't interested. So this looks like a bus vote to me.


I'm not going to bother with Wisdom's, because he interacted with the wagon several times. It was a safe place to compromise vote. I have a strong town read on Wisdom, blah blah.

Fuck you, honestly. I don't know why v/la is such a fucking difficult concept for people to grasp. Maybe if I was irresponsible and just didn't post for over a week people would fucking understand.

Trying to paint my infrequent phone posting as scummy when it's public knowledge I'm not around for this time frame is scummy as fuck.

Where did this come from? I didn't see anyone saying you were scummy for infrequent posting (I might have missed it). You aren't even posting infrequently.

@Wisdom
Amrun is probably town.

I think it's Grim/NS/AP/{Safety Dance, enomis}

Early suspicion of NS.

My strongest scumreads right now are Amrun, Elyse and AngryPidgeon. Those three are followed by SafetyDance and enomis.

So Grim's scumreads are Amrun, Elyse, AP, {Safety, enomis}
and

Nobody Special I think is town, his last post seemed genuine enough to me. Instead of pointing to a random other person in the other lynchpool and try tog et this person lynched instead of himself,h e admits to not having any clear reads. I can relate.

NS is town.
Now AP comes in and says this:

and I'd rather lynch NS than Venmar.

And suddenly,

VOTE: Nobody Special

Even if only to spur him towards more content. He can't stay in hiding forever.

Don't have an especially strong townread on any of the four anymore. AngryPidgeon is my preference, but not enough to put him at L-1 already. Elyse and amrun on his wagon aren't exactly reassuring either.

Bam. Slaps a vote on NS. Wtf? He goes with his scumread to possibly lead a wagon on someone he had a townread on.

This is a good note, but in hindsight here, I felt like it was scummy because it's like associative tells before a flip, y'know? But then...

Alright, so before I was a PoE scumread (fifth in the list actually) and now you're trying to discredit someone's townread on me? It's definitely not because AP is trying to get people to scumread me, right?

Alright so basically Wisdom is either easily misled town or scum trying to save his buddy AP. I'm thinking the former.

And Grim is scummy af.

So it's probably AP/enomis/Grim/Safety. That's my bet.
Other possibilities are AP/enomis/NS/Wisdom, AP/enomis/Safety/Wisdom or AP/NS/Safety/Wisdom.

This, too -- NS dropping into her secondary radar -- had me leaning scum.

I'm at work posting from my phone but I'm fucking pissed off at AP.

The fact you had to bring your real life into this is fucking messed up. I found out my grandmother died last night. Did I mention that? No. Why? Because I'm not a whiny baby and I can play this game by setting aside my personal life.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nobody Special

enomis and Safety are basically conf scum to me. NS/Grim doesn't make sense together but Im pretty sure one is scum.

But then she says NS/Grim DON'T make sense together as a scumteam, which is the OPPOSITE of what I was thinking, and isn't at all indicative of someone using a scumbuddy to sully a townie's reputation. So it's either genuine or she's trying to set up suspicion on Grim over NS -- the former is indicated, but given the lynch pool mechanic, not conclusive.

Yeah because apparently the best strategy for me as scum would be to sheep you. Just stop.

Then why are you doing it? I see no town motivation for it.

I'm not sheeping you.

enomis and Safety are basically conf scum to me.

Ok since you claim you're not just echoing me.
Can you explain why they are confscum to you?

PoE. I have townreads on Amrun, Majiffy, Mollie, you, and AP.

@Grim
Explain your vote on NS after AP voted him.

Also you are being so wishy-washy with your NS stance. One minute he's town, the next he's scum, the next he's a compromise lynch, the next he's useless. Remember what I said about NS/Grim not working? Yeah, that's out the window since he's obviously just going with the popular opinion.

NS/Grim/Safety/enomis

There you have it folks.

Quoting this simply because it's a good point, and I agree.

No. You're acting like NS flipped town. He didn't.

If NS flips town then YOU are the fourth scum. You're acting like you know he'll flip town and are setting me up.

But these, here, are the kicker. I don't see a scumbuddy of NS saying this, knowing he would flip scum. Elyse is town.


Grimgroove has been all over the map with NS. He addressed him for the first time when he was put into the lynch pool to call him "lurkylurk," essentially null. This is reasonable. Then NS posts and he calls NS town. VERY QUICKLY, he turns around and votes NS with very little explanation.

VOTE: Nobody Special

Even if only to spur him towards more content. He can't stay in hiding forever.

Don't have an especially strong townread on any of the four anymore. AngryPidgeon is my preference, but not enough to put him at L-1 already. Elyse and amrun on his wagon aren't exactly reassuring either.

If he doesn't provide content he's the scummiest of the bunch and should be lynched for it.

As soon as he does provide content, I'll evaluate him based on that.

I don't see how it kills "the purpose". The purpose is to make him deliver content. Tell me how my vote or my reasons for it are standing in the way of achieving this?

To me, this reeks of "waiting for my buddy to give me an excuse to town read him." At the time, this didn't register to me but in hindsight...

Faked it to see reactions, I actually only put AP at L-1.

In mountainous, you gotta figure shit out somehow eh?

Vote: Wisdom

Welcome to the leaning town pile, AP.

Ok, so I missed it.

But Amrun seemed to believe it was an argument?

NO NEED TO BE A DICK BY THE WAY!

So Venmar is indeed town now. I agree that such a maneuver is a very townish thing to do, and his conclusions of what happened are normal, logical and from whaty I can see, correct.

So it's basically down to you and Nobody Special out of this lynchpool.

Let's wait for Nobody Special a bit.

He has given townreads now to Venmar and AP. So he says it's beteween NS and Wisdom.

Meh.

VOTE: Wisdom

Surprise! He tries to go for Wisdom first.

Fine, I'll take you AtE.
I obviously did not read your game again, I might as well start reading the Bible, but pff, I thought about it.
I'd feel bad about letting you slide once again in case you do end up being scum, but I'd feel worse if you're actual town having put a lot of effort in this game and letting Nobody Special being lurksack lazy scum with 11 posts live on. Somehow doesn't seem fair.
So yeah, congrats, your AtE worked.
But I still think your play vis-à-vis Amrun has been very dubious. I hope you agree she is the next one to lynch and won't be throwing around any wild scenraios again just to make her seem town somehow. She is obvscum.

VOTE: Nobody Special

This is

L-1

.

I do think last words from Nobody Special are in order.

Finally votes NS after getting into it with me/Wisdom over dumb stuff. NOTE: HE CALLS NS SCUM HERE

Elyse calls him out for his shifting NS read and his response is:

@Grim
Explain your vote on NS after AP voted him.

Also you are being so wishy-washy with your NS stance. One minute he's town, the next he's scum, the next he's a compromise lynch, the next he's useless. Remember what I said about NS/Grim not working? Yeah, that's out the window since he's obviously just going with the popular opinion.

I'm not wishy-washy.
He is a complete nullread. Is this surprising to you? He posted 11 times in total. The kind moderator just told is there more than a hundred posts a day in this game. How you can have a clear read on him is beyond me, but that fact you're so certain he's scum, could actually mùean he is and you're bussing your useless partner for some towncred.

It's true I haven't been very fixed to my vote. That mainly had to do with my reads on the other people in the pool, especially Wisdom. Nobody Special has always been a target of compromise. I called his inactivity scummy, yes, but I guess what I should have said was "anti-town". AP then proceeded to tell me it's NS's meta anyway, so not much is to be gotten from that. Whenever I had a scumread in the lynchpool, I voted that read. Whenever I felt there was a lack of alternatives, I voted NS.

This is also where I stand now. I've got strong townreads on AP and Venmar. Wisdom I'm still not sure, but I let him AtE get to me and see where it gets us. Somehow I'm feeling more confident about him town again, but it goes in waves. It depends on him acting dickish towards me and bringing up wacky scenarios. I have the impression the feeling is mutual.

He says he didn't vote a town read but he called NS town shortly before voting for him for the first time. He says he didn't have a scum read, despite calling NS scum. He has to go out of his way to explain that NS was nothing but a compromise vote, ever, because it doesn't really make much sense.

Grim is an NS buddy. I'll bet my life on it, and at this point, I pretty much want to die because no one will take me seriously until I do.

WHEN I FLIP TOWN, DO NOT FORGOT THAT GRIM IS NS' BUDDY. DO NOT FORGET IT. KILL HIM.

AP's interactions with the NS wagon mirror mine, so obviously we thought about the same on it. He's town for this and other reasons.

I need to look at the people off the wagon, but this is enough for one post.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hi qwints ^^

Also holy wall posts.

[AngryPidgeon]

Despite the fact that when NS was in the pool, Majiffy went for AP over NS without really mentioning NS, overall interactions indicate Majiffy town pretty well. I already had a townread on him, after some point yesterday, but I was still a little unsure. But now I feel pretty good putting Majiffy in the town pool.

Wait this doesn't make sense to me.

Why is MAjiffy more town for listing NS as scummy but shoving my wagon whilst ignoring NS?

[Amrun]

Running out of time; bear with me as this part gets shorter (maybe you'll be happy with that!)

Venmar criticized me for going after NS as a lurker, but didn't really mention him while alive. This is consistent with his vendetta against Wisdom and his scumread on AP. I think he's more likely town than scum, overall.

enomis didn't interact with the wagon at all, but he's probably town.

I don't know what to do with ns. in new scum in town I trolleytracked on him to the point of complete stupidity, even sheeped my strongest town read onto him. he is hard to read and I don't understand other people's measurement for reading him like what is it that you are seeing

I realize its a bit late, but what did you think NS was going to flip, Mollie?
Who are your top 2 townreads?

did not know how he was going to flip. I think he was bussed cos ns stfu and didn't post for the rest of the day.

I already gave a list of my town reads. you, majiffy venny and groovey kid possible town read on wis

piratemollie did nothing but fencesit on NS, and afterwards, says he was bussed but does not actually analyze anything. Vague suspicions like this are always scummy, but especially in this circumstance.

All of her votes are lazy and poorly reasoned, if at all. I leaned scum on her day 1, and have waffled a bit, but I've settled into a solid scumread on this slot.


So, in summation, my picks for remaining scum are Grim/SDslot/piratemollie. Perhaps one of these is wrong and one of my townreads is bad, but I'll be shocked if more than one of these three turns out to be town.

Okay, lynch me now byeeee


p-edit: He's not; that's the counter evidence to him being town (ie evidence for him being scum). But given the other evidence, and how NS himself interacted with Majiffy, overall I put that slot town.

[AngryPidgeon]

Notable because contains NS (purples).

Not really? He listed 3/5 teams (excluding his own obviously). I really dont see anything significant about this.

b) Despite the fact that Venmar, Wisdom, and AP were all up for lynch, he plopped a lazy vote on NS (when there wasn't a real NS wagon). He doesn't try to determine their alignments at all; he isn't interested. So this looks like a bus vote to me.

Why is Majiffy's vote different in your mind?

But these, here, are the kicker. I don't see a scumbuddy of NS saying this, knowing he would flip scum. Elyse is town.

Because scum never fake predict things to look less informed and have an excuse to not follow up on it down the road?

Come on Amrun, I know you aren't this naive.

I'll say I really agree with your Grim analysis wrt NS though. Considering NS was a chronic lurking herpaderp, GG had an unnatural obsession with him. He kept leaving open the suspicion on me but posturing on NS the whole time it looked like I was going down.

[Amrun]

Majiffy's vote ISN'T that different, except he also interacted with the day in other ways and I overall think he's town. Also, he suspected NS since very early on and called NS straight scum, whereas SD didn't really do that.

I didn't say scum never fake predict things. I just don't think Elyse was doing it, in this case. I think she is town, for this and for other reasons I've already said.

[Wisdom]

Very good points about Grim actually. And you made me notice something else too:

Fine, I'll take you AtE.
I obviously did not read your game again, I might as well start reading the Bible, but pff, I thought about it.
I'd feel bad about letting you slide once again in case you do end up being scum, but I'd feel worse if you're actual town having put a lot of effort in this game and letting Nobody Special being lurksack lazy scum with 11 posts live on. Somehow doesn't seem fair.
So yeah, congrats, your AtE worked.

But I still think your play vis-à-vis Amrun has been very dubious. I hope you agree she is the next one to lynch and won't be throwing around any wild scenraios again just to make her seem town somehow. She is obvscum.

VOTE: Nobody Special

This is

L-1

.

I do think last words from Nobody Special are in order.

When scum bus, they care about the next one to lynch. Usually they'll do that via association tells (call X scum because associations with Y, where Y the partner they're bussing) so that they can get a mislynch the following day. With NS there wasn't much content and therefore lack of association tells, but Grim is very probably doing that here. He doesn't care about NS, he cares about who he's lynching next.

And since I started this discussion, that's "the tell" I picked up from Venmar before; while voting Amrun, he was still focusing on me and saying things like "It's Amrun and Wisdom, they're both scum." That's why I thought that if Amrun flipped scum, Venmar could be bussing.