Mini 1468: Legends of the Hidden Temple- Game Over!

[Grimgroove]

Because you THINK they're scum.

You used to think Amrun was scum. Think about those reasons for doing so. Let them float back to you.

You seem to have a very chronological mind. You just insist on the most recent arguments being correct, and forget about the old ones.

Your scumread on me is not backed-up as strongly as you claim it to be. And yet it is that scumread that results in you townreading Amrun, ignoring everything you had on her before that.

If anything, Amrun's flip will teach YOU a lot. About how your brain works, and stuff.

[Wisdom]

I'm sick of this game.
Fucking lynch qwints, Grim and mollie already.

[Grimgroove]

I agree with the sentiment. This game feels like a clogged artery.
Lynching Amrun will allow the blood to move about freely again, in a spirit of understanding and a realisation that all will be well.

[Grimgroove]

Instructions unclear; lost too many brain cells contemplating what's going on in your head.

[enomis]

I will get to this later tonight. Too much to read.

[qwints]

An explanation of my read of Grimm as scum:

He's extremely inconsistent in his reading of Majiffy:

From:

Could people explain their townread on Majiffy please? The growning consensus in this regard seems to indicate I'm missing something very obvious.

To:

I'll probably just sheep Majiffy when push comes to shove. I really want you to be scum as well though.

I don't see how good faith town gets to 776 given his previous iso. It makes sense for scum looking for an excuse to end on the AP wagon.

His vote on wisdom while suggesting he might get on an AP wagon is also wildly inconsistent given that he thought SC-Scum --> Wisdom-Scum.

StrangerCoug's flip does complicate things tremendously.
I look like a bit of an idiot now, don't I?

Still, pretty certain of this one:

VOTE: Wisdom

So right now I think that Wisdom is most likely town if Grim is scum and that Grim is scum.

Now to analyze whether Grim scum is consistent with Amrun being scum as some or saying or if I need to re-evalute my vote.

[qwints]

Amrun's flip will absolve me.

So, here's the point I'm focused on to suggest Grim-Amrun makes sense. Has either really done more than the mutual distancing that lead to the above thought?

[Grimgroove]

My reads change sometimes.
Is that so wrong?

[Wisdom]

Fine, I'll take you AtE.
I obviously did not read your game again, I might as well start reading the Bible, but pff, I thought about it.
I'd feel bad about letting you slide once again in case you do end up being scum, but I'd feel worse if you're actual town having put a lot of effort in this game and letting Nobody Special being lurksack lazy scum with 11 posts live on. Somehow doesn't seem fair.
So yeah, congrats, your AtE worked.
But I still think your play vis-à-vis Amrun has been very dubious. I hope you agree she is the next one to lynch and won't be throwing around any wild scenraios again just to make her seem town somehow. She is obvscum.

VOTE: Nobody Special

This is

L-1

.

I do think last words from Nobody Special are in order.

qwints read this. He brings NS to L-1, and at the same post, he talks about how Amrun is obvscum and needs to go next.
On what planet do scum bus someone and at the same time plan the next bussing?
No. Either Grim is scum who bussed NS and planned the next mislynch (therefore Amrun is town), or Grim is town who didn't think NS would be scum and focused on the next scumlynch. In either case, they are not scum together.

[Grimgroove]

Grim is town who had a nullread on Nobody Special after 40+ pages and therefore didn't mind lynching him.

[Wisdom]

Grim.
If Amrun is town, what is the scumteam?

[Grimgroove]

No idea.
I even have no idea who the scumteam is if she's scum.

This is my current guess:
Amrun-Elyse-AngryPidgeon-qwints

with Wisdom as a possible replacement for one of the last two.

If Amrun is not scum, the only team I could think of somehow is:

Majiffy-enomis-qwints-AngryPidgeon

with Wisdom as a possible replacement for the last two.

Venmar and pirate_mollie are my two strongest townreads, so it is not a coincidence they are not included in any of the lists.

[Wisdom]

Umm.
One scum has flipped. You don't need to have four people in the scumteam. Just three.

[Wisdom]

I currently see either
qwints/Grimgroove/mollie

or

Amrun/Venmar/??

[Wisdom]

None of qwints, Grim or mollie make sense as scum with Amrun. And Venmar is just based on his push on "Amrun/Wisdom". So I really have no clue who is scum if she flips scum.

[Grimgroove]

Ah.
Yes.
Friday is coming at its close, it's been a tiresome week.
So:

Amrun-Elyse (I think the connection between those two is quite obvious) -qwints or AngryPidgeon

or, but ONLY AND ONLY IF!!! Amrun does not flip scum:

Majiffy-enomis-qwints or AngryPidgeon

Wisdom could go in any team really. Or none. Hm.

[Wisdom]

What is the connection between Amrun/Elyse?

[Grimgroove]

It's not something I can pinpoint through exact exchanges right now, maybe later, but the feel I'm getting is that they agree with each other a lot and keep off of each others backs. There's not much interaction between them aside from when they push on the same people and don't push on each other.

You have Elyse in none of your possible scumteams. Does this mean you townread her?

[Wisdom]

Yes.

[Grimgroove]

Because of the QT-things she shared, right?

[qwints]

Wisdom, I think you're right even if it's not quite as simple as the single interaction you point out.

First let's look at Grim's interactions with NS:

VOTE: Nobody Special

Even if only to spur him towards more content. He can't stay in hiding forever.

Don't have an especially strong townread on any of the four anymore. AngryPidgeon is my preference, but not enough to put him at L-1 already. Elyse and amrun on his wagon aren't exactly reassuring either.

Looking at Grim's and NS's iso makes this clear - NS generated no content before Grim moved his vote away to wisdom. A vote that came as the AP wagon came apart and the NS wagon was starting to pick up momentum as Majiffy and my slot joined it. It looks very much to me like someone who was distancing and then hesitated before bussing. Read Grimm's iso yesterday, he's for pressuring NS, throws the first vote down, believes in the wagon, but suddenly jumps off before he gets back on at the end.

Now looks at his the difference in his play with Amrun:

Early defense of Amrun: post 288 and post 291 - deflecting some attacks from AP and SC.

Dumb attacks on Amrun - Scum more likely to get number of scum wrong/ you didn't specifically deny something, so you agree with it. post 293 and 300 ending in some very weak pressure in 312 that's turns into non-pressuring bickering in 372. On the other hand, this is a lot of interaction for two scum early on.

After shifting his focus, he attacks the wk'ing amrun with 478 then shifts back to defending her. 540. Then a long gap before the next passing mention of Amrun in 967. Then he puts Amrun, out of nowhere, at the end of a suspect list in 1146

So far, aside from the heavy early interactions, some attacking, some defending and a lot just neutral.

Then he starts heavily attacking Amrun as a suspect.

1205 - calls her obv-scum, 1239She's the next one to lynch[/url] and tunneling on her all day today after Amrun challenged at wisdom's suggestion.

I agree that this strongly suggests that if Grimm is scum, then Amrun isn't. [Grim would have taken the chance to jump ship if they were both scum] And therefore if Amrun is scum, then Grim isn't. And the heavy early interactions lend support to that notion, even if some of the content doesn't.

But here's the thing - Amrun has still been independently scummy as I've already mentioned. We should still lynch her for that independent scumminess (hammered SC, avoided NS despite later claiming she'd voted him).

[Wisdom]

@Grim
No, because of her 1245, 1247, 1249. Scum that know their buddy is flipping scum don't act this way.

[Grimgroove]

BTW, does anyone have ANY idea what that was all about?
None of the people actually responded to the question, but the question in itself, come on...

Once again... you cannot lynch wisdom today.

...

What if I try really really hard?

Even then.

What is your opinion on 2-scum teams?

Same question to mollie. What is your opinion on 2-scum teams?

I mean, even if you are seriously wondering about this question, it suffices to look at the moderator's opening posts.

Am I the only one who think Amrun is consciously trying to play stupid here? And this is already the second time in this topic when the game set-up is considered.

[Grimgroove]

@Grim
No, because of her 1245, 1247, 1249. Scum that know their buddy is flipping scum don't act this way.

I have a diametrically opposing view on this event.

[Wisdom]

qwints, what scumteam are you seeing if Amrun is town? If she's scum?