Calvin and Hobbes Mafia(GAME OVER! Grownups Mafia Wins!)

[Dante]

Dante, why do you think Desp was killed?

I'm still trying to figure out what role he had...originally assumed he was a Bus Driver...then I read Skull's post suggesting a Sidekick...the way I read the roles doesn't explain what happened last night.

Can you explain your thought process here in more detail? What's confusing you exactly? <-- these aren't very good questions but I'm trying to figure something out so work with me.

Despo was the Town Sled Driver...I took that to mean the Town Bus Driver...in which case he was targeted by scum but he also switched two players...if he's the Town Sidekick...he took a bullet for whoever he was protecting...so he wasn't the original target...

Then we have the mystery kill without role or alignment...I've never seen that...some are suggesting TheIrishPope...but he still shows up alive on the game roster...

Guess...I'm confused on who was the scum's target last night? Did Despo die as a scum target or did he die using the sidekick ability?

Trying to find the motive...

[Dante]

I'm not playing stupid with you, I'm trying to explain why what you did was stupid and needless...if you're still alive after I visited you, and a mafia roleblocker already flipped, and you already claimed your role (rendering a rolecop useless)...then I'm probably a town PR and you should keep your mouth shut or make something up.

Instead you just said "Where is Desperado...explain yourself!"

Which I will now, in full.

I'm

Calvin's Sled, the town bus driver

.

Last night I switched you with boxxy.

Night one I switched Skullduggery with Radioactive (whoops).

I kinda still want to lynch Varsoon for his atrocious claim, and if he can't confirm someone else as his neighbor I can't envision a scenario where he's town.

OK...found this...he was the Bus Driver...

[Rubicon]

Desperado was the bus driver, like he claimed. "Sled driver" in the flip is either flavor or a typo. boxxy was the Sidekick. We have two factions, so one of them killed Desperado and the other killed TIP (most likely, barring setup shenanigans). If your confusion is genuine then you're much more likely to be town, because a boxxy partner would know that he was the Sidekick. But you could also be pretending to be confused on purpose to make me think that.

[Dante]

Desperado was the bus driver, like he claimed. "Sled driver" in the flip is either flavor or a typo. boxxy was the Sidekick. We have two factions, so one of them killed Desperado and the other killed TIP (most likely, barring setup shenanigans). If your confusion is genuine then you're much more likely to be town, because a boxxy partner would know that he was the Sidekick. But you could also be pretending to be confused on purpose to make me think that.

Then it made no sense to target Desperado...

[Dante]

hi, some life has gotten in the way of my activity this game

I'm going to

unvote

Guys,

Varsoons is town and if he isn't you will know by tomorrow.

Promise.

Time to fulfill a promise.

Don't you think?

[Rubicon]

The fact that Tiphaine targetted Rubi and didn't die is very unsettling. I guess it could explain TIPs tracking result, but it still doesn't sit well and I'm not inclined to believe either of them at this point. (snip) Tiphaine, I don't like that he got away with targetting Rubicon and living, but like I already said it could be the same weirdness that showed up in TIPs tracking report. Not sure what's going on there. So overall I guess he's null but I get an uneasy vibe from him.

Lynch today should be one of these people, preferrably someone bolded.

VOTE: Varsoon

Varsoon is the best option IMO. I think he's the scummiest on that list. Additionally we should policy lynch Miller at some point, and if he does flip neighbourizer then that will confirm Psyche as town.

I could make a real case on Varsoon right now, but honestly, I don't need to. He just committed one of the hugest scumtells I see. He's using relational tells EARLY in the game. And he's leaning on them hardcore. Relational tells are easy to fake for scum, and they set up lines of logic for the late game. They are very easy to lean on, and very hard to refute because many times they are based simply on interpretations of posts.

VOTE: Varsoon

We are approaching a deadline, and yet I have faith in our town. Let's turbolynch this scummy fuck.

We need to not have a no lynch happen... trusting psyche for now... Mostly cause I have no other choice.

UNVOTE: VOTE: dante

I never sheep.... ever... ever. But I don't have time to read this game right now, and I definitely don't have time to make a good varsoon case stick in the three days we have left.

I'm trusting your rubs, don' let me down.

Eh, dante's last few posts are bad anyways, leavin mah vote where it is.

- boxxy flip flops and waffles on his TiphaineDeath read, settles on "null" with an "uneasy vibe"
- boxxy votes Varsoon
- TD follows boxxy onto the Varsoon wagon
- TD moves to the Dante wagon, supposedly to avoid a no-lynch, says he's just sheeping me
- When I say boxxy is the better lynch, TD doesn't sheep me on that, instead sticking with Dante

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

this is actually a good lynch for today, I think.

[Varsoon]

No one's explained what happened, but I suppose it's PR shenanigans.

Penguin mentioned the XXXX kill being TiP, which really seems like odd knowledge to have, or really specific hunting on Penguin's part, given the amount of activity from Penguin so far in the game.
Again, I stand by my vote. Guys, please listen to me. It really pisses me off when town's this disorganized this late.


@Rubicon: I think that TD's a good candidate for scum, too, for the record. Right now, my top 4 scum are TD, Penguin, Dante, and TiP.

[Rubicon]

penguin is definitely on my list.

[Rubicon]

Penguin mentioned the XXXX kill being TiP, which really seems like odd knowledge to have, or really specific hunting on Penguin's part, given the amount of activity from Penguin so far in the game.

this is a good point.

[penguin_alien]

Okay, so what the fuck was up with the NK results? I've never seen that in a game yet, can someone explain it to me?

Also, I agree with a Dante lynch, but I think rushing the day would be far too easy at this point--that's something scum would want, given they are winning at this point.

I think that Penguin Alien's willingness to rush out the Dante lynch and pressure hard in light of how much P_A was lurking before is really odd. It doesn't fit, but lurkers always give me bad vibes.

For now,

Vote: Penguin_alien

What's up with that?

...I'm not even voting Dante? Where am I rushing anything?

At the risk of having weirdness happen, I'll point out that we had 13 alive post-boxxy flip, and now it's 11. The missing person is almost certainly effectively dead (if he were silenced , usually that's announced in-thread) and TheIrishPope wasn't included on the day start PM.

Dante seems like a fine lynch. Wanting to policy lynch a claimed miller at that point yesterday is all sorts of blech.

I still don't see what's wrong with that...yeah...I was wrong on boxxy...but at some point we need to eliminate the wifom with Varsoon...just saying.

Yes, at some point. But we don't know that we have no town killing role. And if we're wondering if the miller claim is faked, doesn't at least one scum faction have to be wondering the same thing?

P-edit: Varsoon, having a mystery flip is pretty unique. I was curious and checked the day start PM to see if anyone was missing there who was still on the post #0 list. It took thirty seconds, not a whole lot of hunting or specific knowledge.

[Varsoon]

@PA: The first page says he's alive, though. He hasn't posted yet, and given how loud he's been in-thread, it makes sense, but checking the Day-start PM recipients? I don't know, I guess it makes since, I'm just -really- suspicious of you for pretty obvious reasons.
-Lurking
-Seems to have inclusive knowledge
-Largely sheeping/nothing new to add until recently

[Nobody Special]

I'm so confused.

I knew that ONE of us was undead (or whatever it is) by counting the people alive vs. the number of votes. But I never in a million years would've thought to check the Daystart PM. That just feels very ......off.

Also, penguin's level of activity (or lack thereof).

Vote: penguin_alien

[penguin_alien]

Go ahead and be suspicious, I know I'm not good at being vocal early on in large games. But being suspicious of me for a fairly straightforward process of elimination task and sheeping two scum lynches (@ Varsoon)...not so much.

Rubicon, if Dante is genuinely confused about the sidekick flip, it makes him unlikely to be aligned with that particular anti-town faction. It doesn't make him town.

T S O, if your meta read on Dante is effectively invalid, do you still think he's scum?

Rubicon, WRT your case on TD, when he posted the wagons were nearly even. Why should you expect him to sheep you for the entire rest of the day? Seems less scummy to me to assert an opinion, even if it means not helping lynch a particular scum. And it's not like we were near not lynching at all.

[penguin_alien]

Nobody Special, so because you didn't think of it no one else should? What is the possible scum advantage for pointing it out? If I were scum in the know, I'd want to prolong the lack of information, maybe even hope people wasted time speculating on TIP not posting. Not point out who's likely dead ASAP. Pretty much negates the presumed advantage if we figure scum killed TIP using a special ability.

[Rubicon]

Also, penguin's level of activity (or lack thereof).

Do you think lack of activity is a scum tell, NS?

Go ahead and be suspicious, I know I'm not good at being vocal early on in large games. But being suspicious of me for a fairly straightforward process of elimination task and sheeping two scum lynches (@ Varsoon)...not so much.

I'm not keen on your "and sheeping two scum lynches" here.

It's more that scum sometimes like to drop inside information as though they deduced it themselves in order to appear more helpful to the town. Another example would be WWE when one of the scum listed off a bunch of boxer names that were "likely" scum flavor names - sure, he could have guessed that information from knowing about WWE, and that's what he was hoping people would think, but actually he got it from the scum QT.

When no one except you thought to check the day start PM for a missing name, and scum probably knew the name wasn't going to be in the day start PM... um yeah, it's a bit suspicious to say the least.

Rubicon, if Dante is genuinely confused about the sidekick flip, it makes him unlikely to be aligned with that particular anti-town faction. It doesn't make him town.

This is true, although at the moment most of the associative tells tie him to boxxy. Also part of me imagines that the opposing faction would have payed a lot of attention to boxxy's flip and what it meant. (You did this.)

Rubicon, WRT your case on TD, when he posted the wagons were nearly even. Why should you expect him to sheep you for the entire rest of the day? Seems less scummy to me to assert an opinion, even if it means not helping lynch a particular scum. And it's not like we were near not lynching at all.

I think there's a significant chance that TiphaineDeath is/was buddying me in an attempt to get me to not notice any parallels between his play here and his play in Two and a Half Friends mafia. Considering the possibility that Dante is town, his willingness to follow me onto the Dante wagon might have been because he knew it would either hit scum or damage my credibility as PGO, while he could sit back and say he was only sheeping. But when I suggested it made more sense to lynch boxxy, he wouldn't go there, which is interesting because boxxy flipped scum.

Your defense of him is noted, though!

[Rubicon]

Nobody Special, so because you didn't think of it no one else should? What is the possible scum advantage for pointing it out? If I were scum in the know, I'd want to prolong the lack of information, maybe even hope people wasted time speculating on TIP not posting. Not point out who's likely dead ASAP. Pretty much negates the presumed advantage if we figure scum killed TIP using a special ability.

WIFOM + not necessarily since there could be more to the ability than just "you can optionally hide the flip for your night kill". could be scum was forced to use it, could be there are other effects, could be you felt this very argument ^ would make you look town

[Rubicon]

Varsoon, have you & Psyche talked about NS in your QT? Any insights there?

[Nobody Special]

Nobody Special, so because you didn't think of it no one else should? What is the possible scum advantage for pointing it out? If I were scum in the know, I'd want to prolong the lack of information, maybe even hope people wasted time speculating on TIP not posting. Not point out who's likely dead ASAP. Pretty much negates the presumed advantage if we figure scum killed TIP using a special ability.

That's actually a very good point.

unvote

@Rubicon: Can be.

[Varsoon]

@Rubicon: I agree with all of your points in 1564--Penguin's reveal of TiP could easily be scum trying to earn towncred, especially when said scum had some scrutiny the day before. It'd be a really cheap tactic that scum could employ, but I can't rule out the possibility that town could deduce the same thing. The problem lies in the context of Penguin's approach to the game, and how I've had Penguin as a scum-candidate for more than a day and now, after the first scum-lynch since D1, Penguin enters the thread with something that'll earn him town-cred? It's too easy.

As far as our QT goes, Psyche hasn't posted in it since 07-10-2013, which is really weird, given how talkative he usually is. I've mentioned NS a few times, but Psyche hasn't really engaged in discussion of him being scum or not. We've been discussing, mostly, TiP and Desperado, and before last night, Psyche said that he thought TiP was scum due to his mention of having never been a town PR before.

I'm currently thinking that there's a chance that TiP belonged to one scum team and the other team killed/covered up his flip results just in case the slot flipped scum--mostly to keep town from knowing.

[Varsoon]

Oh, by the by, I'll be V/LA from Monday until further notice. I'm moving across the country and stuff.

I should be back on Wednesday or so. If I'm not, I'll try to let the mod know somehow.

[TiphaineDeath]

Pa-Varsoon are scum together, happy to lynch either of them today.

Actual cases when I have time, unless I did them already, inwhich case fuck ya'll. Sorry I haven't really been at my best this game, my reality is kinda fuzzy right now :/.

[TiphaineDeath]

Ah fuck me.... PA might be town :/

[TiphaineDeath]

Varsoon is still scum though, or so help me I will tableflip levels of ragequit.

[TiphaineDeath]

VOTE: Varsoon

[Nobody Special]

TD: What made you change your read on Penguin?