Newbie 1391 - Game Over - FINALLY!!!

[Feel It]

Well, that went quick. He is the most likely looking to be scum but.. I'm a bit weary seeing as i was wrong about chkflip he seemed so scummy to me.

Anyway, giving intent to hammer, gen_wolf please claim if it's relevant and give your views on players, in particular who you think is scum.

[Gen_Wolf]

You ouens are throbbing this game now. You have 12 days to make a decision. That is 12 days of discussion that would have to occur and that is another 12 days of information that will be forfeited by lynching me. If in 12 days time after multiple discussions you still feel the need to lynch me then please do but please just utilize a few more days for information purposes.

Anyways, I claim Vanilla Townie.

My views are I feel scum is a more experienced player. Keeping a low profile and not NK'ing rather than a PR blocking. I would start off at Feel It, just because he has been suspicious from the outset. Even though I am pretty sure he will flip town. If I had it my way I would probably look at Nachomamma and Champs. There contributions don't seem very town orientated but that is my opinion and I hope you at least consider them.

To be honest I trust no one in this game (Duh it is the game) but I would say of anyone Miss Stranger can be guaranteed townie. Other townies if you have to follow anyone into the dark I would suggest follow Miss Stranger

Anyways, please just consider lynching me so early. I don't mind being lynched in 4 - 12 days (I do mind but you know what I mean) but please rather use the time constructively.

[Miss Stranger]

Fair enough. UNVOTE: Gen_Wolf

Still have to hear from Stubbs and Nacho.

[Gen_Wolf]

Thanks Stranger.

Honestly, I obviously want town to win. However, if it came to it and after some discussion people are unsure I would rather have them lynch me than potentially expose a PR or what not. I'll take a bullet for the team in that regard but I just encourage everyone to use the time we have.

Miss Stranger said:

Here is who I think is probably not mafia:
- Feel It was the second person to vote Antagon and he remained solid on his wagon.
- Nachomamma was hopped onto by Antagon in hopes of mislynch.
- Stubbs is generally feeling town, also third person to vote Antagon and gain momentum on his wagon.
- Generic's hammer was very town.

Firstly, whether a person was first on the wagon or hammered to deduce someone is more scummy or less scummy by their position is poor logic especially from you Miss Stranger. Yes the later on the more likely they are scum but anyone on the wagon can be scum and thus I disagree with your reasoning on Feel It. Also throws out your argument on Stubbs. Scum could have seen there partner flailing and bussed them. Same goes for Generic.

The only conclusive evidence in that post I would say is Antagon hopping onto Nacho. However, I still feel Nacho is scummy and thus it could be a ploy but I think your logic in that post was very poor.

[Nachomamma8]

You ouens are throbbing this game now. You have 12 days to make a decision. That is 12 days of discussion that would have to occur and that is another 12 days of information that will be forfeited by lynching me. If in 12 days time after multiple discussions you still feel the need to lynch me then please do but please just utilize a few more days for information purposes.

You weren't that concerned about waiting yesterday while chkflip was getting lynched. Why?

[Nachomamma8]

If I had it my way I would probably look at Nachomamma and Champs. There contributions don't seem very town orientated but that is my opinion and I hope you at least consider them.

I'm interested in champ as well. But I think we'd have much more useful discussion if there were actual reasons going into your suspicions and something more than "I think experienced players are more likely to no kill".

[Nachomamma8]

vote gen wolf

And that's L-1

Nothing interesting on the reread?

[Nachomamma8]

Well, that went quick. He is the most likely looking to be scum but.. I'm a bit weary seeing as i was wrong about chkflip he seemed so scummy to me.

Anyway, giving intent to hammer, gen_wolf please claim if it's relevant and give your views on players, in particular who you think is scum.

Slow down.

[Nachomamma8]

And if you're being cautious, then why are you already ready for the hammer?

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA until the 18th. Hopefully will be able to sneak in a post here and there, probably not.

[StubbsKVM]

Gen Wolf's posts this day feel forced.

His excuse to wait for a hammer, which he has used on both day 1 and day 3, might have been valid, if he hadn't put chkflip at L-1 yesterday.

His obvtown read on Generic also seems to have vanished for no reason.

Also, his comment on how the case on Antagon was invalid also rises more suspicion.

Just ISOed Antagon, and he had only 1 town read: Gen Wolf.


So, I don't see any reason to keep Gen Wolf around really. Everything we have points at his direction.

[Feel It]

gen_wolf, Who is your main fos?

[Gen_Wolf]

I feel scum is somewhere in nacho champs or stubbs

[Generic]

My reread nacho had to be delayed. But firstly

unvote

for now.

In my mind from what I have seen over three days nacho and stranger are town. Chalk them off and we are left with

Stubbs, feel it, champino and gen wolf...

One to find, if mafia finally get successful we have three lynches left to find one scum (7 to5, 5 to 3, then the final decision if it gets that far)

We may be facing a mass claim requirement on day 4 if we aren't right today. In fact I would want one today, because I think it would narrow things down further for reasons I will hold back right now.

There is a margin for error in this win now, and if for example we have the setup with a doc or the one with a jail keeper we have answers to be had.

Cop would have at the very least cleared a couple of people as town by now. Jail keeper would have by Occam's razor protected someone who must be town OR roleblocked the last mafia.

Who thinks a mass claim will be good for today?

[champinoman]

Wow, things escalated quickly. I'm just glad nobody did anything stupid and shortened the day. Plenty of time yet.

I feel scum is somewhere in nacho champs or stubbs

Finally, an opinion.
Now can you please explain why the 3 of us are scummy in your opinion? And whilst you're at it maybe explain why the other 3 aren't.


Feel It: What are your thoughts on Gen_Wolf now following his claim? And if you think it is valid who do you think is next most likely to be scum?


Nacho: Other than saying you are interested in me you haven't shared your opinion on who you think is most likely to be scum since day 1. Care to share your thoughts?


Miss Stranger:

Here is who I think is probably not mafia:
- Feel It was the second person to vote Antagon and he remained solid on his wagon.
- Nachomamma was hopped onto by Antagon in hopes of mislynch.
- Stubbs is generally feeling town, also third person to vote Antagon and gain momentum on his wagon.
- Generic's hammer was very town.

This leaves Gen_Wolf and champinoman, and I don't think champinoman was bussing Antagon, so I'd personally pick Gen_Wolf.
VOTE: Gen_Wolf.

-Being the 2nd onto Antagon and remaining on the wagon could just show that he knew Antagon was a dead man walking.
-I don't think that you can assume that Nacho is town because Antagon jumped on his wagon. Have you got any other reasons why you think that Nacho is town?
-Why is Stubbs feeling town?

And I understand the case presented for Gen_Wolf but I would like to hear your thoughts on myself as I seem to be being considered.

My reread nacho had to be delayed. But firstly

unvote

for now.

In my mind from what I have seen over three days nacho and stranger are town. Chalk them off and we are left with

Stubbs, feel it, champino and gen wolf...

One to find, if mafia finally get successful we have three lynches left to find one scum (7 to5, 5 to 3, then the final decision if it gets that far)

We may be facing a mass claim requirement on day 4 if we aren't right today. In fact I would want one today, because I think it would narrow things down further for reasons I will hold back right now.

There is a margin for error in this win now, and if for example we have the setup with a doc or the one with a jail keeper we have answers to be had.

Cop would have at the very least cleared a couple of people as town by now. Jail keeper would have by Occam's razor protected someone who must be town OR roleblocked the last mafia.

Who thinks a mass claim will be good for today?

Can you please elaborate on why you feel that Nacho is town?

I don't think a mass claim is a good idea yet. I just feel like there is still the potential for too many variables. However, If a PR disagrees then go for it. Just have a long think about it first.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Vote Count 3.1

Gen_Wolf - 1 (champinoman)

Not Voting - 6 (Feel It, Gen_Wolf, Generic, Miss Stranger, Nachomamma8, StubbsKVM)

4 to Lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-07-26 07:00:00)

.

[Feel It]

@champinoman: It was what I thought he would claim which is okay. He seems the most scummy to me based on his generally posting, he likes to disappear as long as there is no pressure on him, and he has the most links to Antagon after chkflip. If he is town... well I haven't got much else because him, Antagon and ckflip were the scummy players to me. Based on a gut feeling I'd say Stubbs.

@gen_wolf: You need to give us more than that, which one is the most scummy, and why? Give a case.

[Miss Stranger]

@Champinoman

, the reason I think Stubbs feels town is because I've not seen scummy posts from him but I've seen a few town posts, such as 245, 286, 324, which all feel pretty genuine. On the same line, I don't think James May was too scummy either.

Antagon lynching Nacho-partner while he himself was going to be lynched soon anyway, though? It'd be just extremely poor play, and Antagon has played better scum games. (I meta'd him) Nacho's last posts on D1 all looked pretty good, too. The only thing that bothered me was the fact he wasn't voting Antagon who he described as the best lynch. Whether or not I should weigh this a lot is a different question.

And no, I don't think Antagon was dead man walking when I voted him. Not to mention Feel It wouldn't know if Antagon could or couldn't talk his way out of a lynch, since Feel It had never played any games on Mafiascum or with Antagon. The fake hammer intent was definitely bad-looking, but Feel It didn't vote Nacho afterwards, which means he probably didn't want him lynched, just pressured into play. All in all, I don't find anything about Feel It that's particularly scummy at this point and there are better suspects lying around.

@Generic:

I think mass claim is a good idea. In fact, let's make a tally, shall we?

Champinoman	...
Generic	YES
Gen_Wolf	...
Feel It	...
Miss Stranger	YES
Nachomamma	...
Stubbs	...

[Feel It]

I'm neutral towards it, if the majority wants it I'll claim.

[StubbsKVM]

I think claiming is unnecessary at this point. I don't want to out the PR's just yet. Especially because I feel we should lynch Gen Wolf, who has already claimed.

[Generic]

The key thing is a cop would have two reads by now.
A jail keeper if they targeted the same person twice would have the scum, or if they protected two people if we knew them we might have an idea who was town targetedby mafia and who was scum.

I think knowing the setup we have and what info those PRs have found would win this.

[champinoman]

My problem is that I haven’t played enough games to know what the best approach is in this situation. Maybe some guidance from Nacho (IC) is required on this when he gets back.

Looking at the 3 scenarios you have listed above I see the following possible problems:

The key thing is a cop would have two reads by now.

What if they targeted chkflip/fegelein on N1?
What if they were roleblocked on one of the nights?
Or worst case; what if they targeted chkflip/fegelein on N1 and were roleblocked on N2?

A jail keeper if they targeted the same person twice would have the scum

If a jaileeper targeted the same person:
What about if there was a no-kill on one of the nights and the other night the jailkeeper picked the target of the nightkill?
If there is a jailkeeper then there is a 50% chance of a bulletproof as well, so we have other possibilities similar to the above scenario.

or if they protected two people if we knew them we might have an idea who was town targetedby mafia and who was scum.

If a jaileeper targeted different people then I’m not sure if there is anyway to draw any conclusions with the multiple scenarios including: jailer jailing the target, jailer jailing the scum, bulletproof and scum no-killing.

This is why in my previous post I said there are so many variables that I’m not sure whether or not it’s a good idea to mass claim.

That being said though, there are scenarios where claiming is a good idea so those people should certainly consider it.

[Gen_Wolf]

@champinoman: It was what I thought he would claim which is okay. He seems the most scummy to me based on his generally posting, he likes to disappear as long as there is no pressure on him, and he has the most links to Antagon after chkflip. If he is town... well I haven't got much else because him, Antagon and ckflip were the scummy players to me. Based on a gut feeling I'd say Stubbs.

@gen_wolf: You need to give us more than that, which one is the most scummy, and why? Give a case.

I think all three are scummy. For the amount they contribute to the amount they dictate it doesn't add up. Nacho I feel everyone gives him this status of god and an amazing mafia player, which I am not questioning, thus I feel he can get away with a lot more than others. I would start with him in this instance.

[Generic]

vote stubbs

His contributions have felt like he is just agreeing with others points and voting with the way the game is swinging.

[StubbsKVM]

Yet I am the only one against a mass claim.

I'm also the only one connecting the dots between gen wolf and antagon.

I don't see what your tryin to do here Generic.

VOTE: Gen wolf

Because apparently I have forgotten