NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[PeregrineV]

@ Cephrir & Bulba-

Why did I vote Nacho?

Well,
4843
4844
He's got a point.

4632
Nacho quoting Nacho as the reason to tunnel me.

4782
Voting for a town read in a game that does not require a majority lynch.

(lots of posts)
Buddying ffulisade

Everchanging and confusing reads (spoiled below):

Spoiler: Senald scum/not scum, Bulba not scum but 4806

you know that i would not call somene town unless my gut hardly says.. Nero is town. and If feel you're town. So, Now stop pissing each other..

Unvote, Vote: Seanald

And also i want to know what your thoughts on Cephier.

Cephrir's probably town.

let's look at cephrir. does anybody seriously believe that cephrir has no idea what to do with thad's "trolling". omg, no. I mean that is what cephrir is saying, "I have no idea what to do about thad's trolling cos I have just never encountered it before!". oh plz.

I've learned that trolling can apparently throw people off in extremely weird ways.

bacde, you freak me out because dragonballz.

- f

this essentially is dragonballz
and sooner or later everything will just click and a bunch of scum will die and everything will be okay.

Fery makes me sad on so many levels. Like SUPER SAD. ~~~Actually I said this to Mara after the Donner Party game ended. There was something similar that was said here to something said there. Bulb had a total different reaction to it here which made me lean town on him mainly because he was SK in DP.

I don't get it.

- f

they're town.

The only argument I've seen in Nero's defense is that his play here reminds people of other town games of his. I find this to be a very unreliable use of meta, because it assumes that Nero-scum is incapable of emulating his town play.

I trust mollie's (and AA's, believe it or not) instincts when dealing with Nero. Sometimes he plays great, sometimes he plays incredibly scummily, self-destructs, etc.

My problem with your Nero case lately is that we still don't even know it's multiball. If it isn't, your entire case goes up in flames. I think my Seanald case is stronger than your Nero case, straight up.

two kills per night --> claimed vig who hasn't shot --> "blue" scum all sort of equals multiball
if ThAd gets counterclaimed by bullets and flips blue scum, then maybe it's not multiball but that's looking HIGHLY unlikely at this point.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

ffery, I read this game and I don't think Seanald is scum here.
Do you agree or am I reading too much into his approach?

BULBAZAK HAS BEEN TOWN FOR THE WHOLE FUCKING GAME

FFERY MOLLIE IS CALLING BULBAZAK TOWN
FIX IT

Lack of scumreads even though 4-6 scum left (depending on your setup belief).

[Rena]

Rena, what result did you get night 1?

I got a nobody visited the Om Hydra result.

@ Penguin - you are essentially asking me why I did not receive a result. How am I supposed to know why I didn't get one? I'm not a mind reader. I just send an action in and receive a reply later. If I knew why I didn't receive anything, it would make the game way too easy and we might as well be playing an open setup.

If I missed anything aimed at myself, direct me to the question. Nero said I'm not answering his questions but I can't find them.

More in a bit.

[Desperado]

@ Cephrir & Bulba-

Why did I vote Nacho?

Well,
4843
4844
He's got a point.

4632
Nacho quoting Nacho as the reason to tunnel me.

4782
Voting for a town read in a game that does not require a majority lynch.

(lots of posts)
Buddying ffulisade

Everchanging and confusing reads (spoiled below):

Spoiler: Senald scum/not scum, Bulba not scum but 4806

you know that i would not call somene town unless my gut hardly says.. Nero is town. and If feel you're town. So, Now stop pissing each other..

Unvote, Vote: Seanald

And also i want to know what your thoughts on Cephier.

Cephrir's probably town.

let's look at cephrir. does anybody seriously believe that cephrir has no idea what to do with thad's "trolling". omg, no. I mean that is what cephrir is saying, "I have no idea what to do about thad's trolling cos I have just never encountered it before!". oh plz.

I've learned that trolling can apparently throw people off in extremely weird ways.

bacde, you freak me out because dragonballz.

- f

this essentially is dragonballz
and sooner or later everything will just click and a bunch of scum will die and everything will be okay.

Fery makes me sad on so many levels. Like SUPER SAD. ~~~Actually I said this to Mara after the Donner Party game ended. There was something similar that was said here to something said there. Bulb had a total different reaction to it here which made me lean town on him mainly because he was SK in DP.

I don't get it.

- f

they're town.

The only argument I've seen in Nero's defense is that his play here reminds people of other town games of his. I find this to be a very unreliable use of meta, because it assumes that Nero-scum is incapable of emulating his town play.

I trust mollie's (and AA's, believe it or not) instincts when dealing with Nero. Sometimes he plays great, sometimes he plays incredibly scummily, self-destructs, etc.

My problem with your Nero case lately is that we still don't even know it's multiball. If it isn't, your entire case goes up in flames. I think my Seanald case is stronger than your Nero case, straight up.

two kills per night --> claimed vig who hasn't shot --> "blue" scum all sort of equals multiball
if ThAd gets counterclaimed by bullets and flips blue scum, then maybe it's not multiball but that's looking HIGHLY unlikely at this point.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

ffery, I read this game and I don't think Seanald is scum here.
Do you agree or am I reading too much into his approach?

BULBAZAK HAS BEEN TOWN FOR THE WHOLE FUCKING GAME

FFERY MOLLIE IS CALLING BULBAZAK TOWN
FIX IT

Lack of scumreads even though 4-6 scum left (depending on your setup belief).

This case sucks.

- Bacde didn't have a point. His argument was "I've caught more scum than Nacho this game, so you should reconsider your townread on him (because that makes him scum)."
- Nacho quoted Nacho because you called him useless, so he posted what he felt were his most non-useless posts...with the obvious implication that they far outweigh what you might hypothetically include in a "Peregrine's Best Hits" style post.
- Where did Nacho have Slandaar as a townread? I see him showing suspicion as early as 1852, and he voted him in 3585 as well. Also...weren't you actively requesting people to vote Slandaar?
- What is your read on ffullisade and what specifically is scummy about Nacho's buddying?
- "Ever-changing" Seanald read: He applied pressure, did meta research, and changed his mind. What's scummy?
- "Ever-changing" Bulb read: Blatant misrep, on a typo no less! You can't be serious. Both posts in succession:

FFERY MOLLIE IS CALLING BULBAZAK TOWN
FIX IT

ISN'T*

[ffullisade]

The fact that neither of these are reaching full majority bugs me.

@Mastin- I hate deadline lynches. Just so you know.

<<< Would you rather have a failure to reach majority result in a no-lynch today? How 'bout day one? This game's long enough as it is already, no-lynching would make it go on for even longer. Plus...If you couldn't tell...I hate deadline no-lynches, just so you know. >>>

@Slandaar-I searched your Iso for "Crash" and "CTD" and QT, just to see if you mentioned anything regarding it.
You didn't, except to say Crash is town a few times.

Since I don't know why you feel this way, it's either real, or artificial.

Since your cases on other players seem artificial, this townread is looking the same way too. How is it not "worth" your time to explain why your neighbor is town?

Requesting ThAd, ArcAngel, Bacde or Desp moves their vote to Slandaar.

Hey Peregrine why were you working so hard to herd votes onto Slandaar yesterday?

- f

Because of the two, would rather Slandaar be lynched over Bulba.

Your Slandaar case in this post are crappy reasons to want someone lynched, and crappy reasons for appealing to other players to move their votes.

[ffullisade]

Was less than pleased with QT last night. Bulba was not my first choice for a bullet.

But, we are now divining the setup to be 2 scumteams, each with a roleblocker, that each managed to block a PR without doubling up on either?

I think that's stretching it somewhat.

Vote: Nachomamma

ThAd, possible suggestion for next time you take a shot.

Don't discuss your target on the QT.

I have a bad feeling about Perigrine.

- f

Tell me more about this. Why shouldn't he discuss his target in the QT?

Because I think it's far more likely that ThAd is town than you are.

[Cephrir]

Desp is so right that case is the most incredible load of BS

I'm just disappointed in myself for not going through it and noticing this personally

[Cephrir]

I feel like that's the sort of thing that could have been manufactured later to back up a baseless opinion, because there's no way you were convinced based on that garbage

[Cephrir]

Sorry for hating on your vote, Nacho, it's actually pretty solid.

Also re: lack of scumreads from Nacho, that's not even true.

[mastin2]

One-Hundred-Twenty-Second Votecount

:

(Fourth Votecount of Day Four,

AKA, the "Catching up" votecount.

)

Bulbazak - 4 (Human Destroyer, Nero Cain, ThAdmiral, Seanald)

Nachomamma8 - 2 (Bacde, PeregrineV)

Nero Cain - 2 (Bulbazak, CrashTextDummie)
Rena - 2 (Cephrir, penguin_alien)
PeregrineV - 1 (Nachomamma8)
Amethyst Kitty - 1 (Desperado)

Not Voting - 3 (Rena, Amethyst Kitty, ffullisade)

With

15

alive, it's

8

to lynch.

Day Four's deadline is Wednesday, July 31st, @ 12:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-07-31 12:30:00).

Spoiler: Changes from last votecount

Bulbazak - 4 (Human Destroyer, Nero Cain, ThAdmiral,

Seanald

)
Nachomamma8 - 2 (Bacde, PeregrineV)
Nero Cain - 2 (Bulbazak, CrashTextDummie)
Rena - 2 (Cephrir,

penguin_alien

)
PeregrineV - 1 (Nachomamma8)
Amethyst Kitty - 1 (Desperado)

Not Voting - 3 (

penguin_alien

,

Seanald

, Rena, Amethyst Kitty, ffullisade)

Last votecount was page 197, post 4905.

Spoiler: Player Vote History D4

CrashTextDummie: Nero Cain
Cephrir: Rena
Nachomamma8: PeregrineV
PeregrineV: Nachomamma8
Nero Cain: Bulbazak
Bacde: Nachomamma8
Bulbazak: Nero Cain
Desperado: Amethyst Kitty
penguin_alien: Rena
Slandaar:
Seanald: Bulbazak
ThAdmiral: Bulbazak
Rena:
Amethyst Kitty:
ffullisade:
Human Destroyer: Bulbazak

Spoiler: Vote History D4

On Wed, Jul 7/10/13 @ 07:28a,

Human Destroyer

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 4831.
On Wed, Jul 7/10/13 @ 10:11a,

Nero Cain

votes

Bulbazak

in post 4832.
On Wed, Jul 7/10/13 @ 10:15a,

Bacde

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 4833.
On Wed, Jul 7/10/13 @ 02:24p,

Bulbazak

votes

Nero Cain

in post 4836.
On Wed, Jul 7/10/13 @ 02:33p,

Cephrir

votes

Rena

in post 4838.
On Thu, Jul 7/11/13 @ 02:26p,

PeregrineV

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 4867.
On Thu, Jul 7/11/13 @ 05:18p,

Nachomamma8

votes

PeregrineV

in post 4870.
On Thu, Jul 7/11/13 @ 06:04p,

CrashTextDummie

votes

Nero Cain

in post 4871.
On Fri, Jul 7/12/13 @ 08:38a,

Desperado

votes

Amethyst Kitty

in post 4879.
On Fri, Jul 7/12/13 @ 08:10p,

ThAdmiral

votes

Bulbazak

in post 4899.
On Sun, Jul 7/14/13 @ 04:25p,

Seanald

votes

Bulbazak

in post 4937.
On Mon, Jul 7/15/13 @ 00:12a,

penguin_alien

votes

Rena

in post 4942.

[penguin_alien]

thoughts on Bulb, please dear.

Eh, not a strong town read, but he seems to have decent intentions even if he's a bit paranoid.

Rena, do you agree that both you and ThAd are claiming to have unsuccessful night actions? Do you think you were both blocked? If you're town, wouldn't you be massively suspicious of ThAd and/or Bulbazak?

[ffullisade]

consensus achieved.

VOTE: PeregrineV

Nacho, I am holding you to this.

Ffery, I would like to seriously connect. I don't think we've made an effort lately but it sort of needs to be done.

[Cephrir]

Well, if ffull isn't going to vote Rena today and we're letting Seanald slip through our fingers yet again, I guess that'll do.

VOTE: Peregrine

If we never lynch either of those clowns I'm going to be mad at all of you.

[ffullisade]

I think I speak for both of us when I say that we're up for a Rena lynch. Right now, we're recovering from all the *headdesk* lumps on our foreheads.

- f

[Amethyst Kitty]

Rena, what result did you get night 1?

I got a nobody visited the Om Hydra result.

@ Penguin - you are essentially asking me why I did not receive a result. How am I supposed to know why I didn't get one? I'm not a mind reader. I just send an action in and receive a reply later. If I knew why I didn't receive anything, it would make the game way too easy and we might as well be playing an open setup.

If I missed anything aimed at myself, direct me to the question. Nero said I'm not answering his questions but I can't find them.

More in a bit.

Can you please explain the difference in your activity before and after you claimed? You were actually reading town prior to claiming and now that you claimed you are barely around and barely posting. Why the difference? I'm sure as hell not going to let you skate. This is reminding me of a lot like Messiah in GoW where he skated prior to claiming and continued to skate after claiming.

[Amethyst Kitty]

@HD:

Is there any way you can explain on the Mala meta part more? Did he give you specifics or was it just a gut feel?

@Despo:

I'm not going to go back and forth with you again about the replacement out. It wasn't faked and it wasn't for any type of cred. I was pissed off at Mollie and I would have rather replaced out then lost a friendship, but Mara was able to calm me down after the fact, but yes I was really replacing out. Hopefully soon you'll meet a player where you treasure their friendship over some silly ingame fight that has no meaning.

[Desperado]

That might be the first genuine thing I've seen you say all game.

Unvote: Amethyst
Vote: Peregrine

[CrashTextDummie]

The reason that most of us were town reading CTD is ‘cause of his outting his neighborhood, when the friendly neighbor flipped. He’s experienced enough to know how to fake this, there’s also the possibility that he could just be scum and not know this. I don’t like it when my questions are ignored and CTD is avoiding discussing his neighbor hood actions for some odd reason. And in yet another bout of hypocrisy, Bulb is now calling me scummy for being suspicious of CTD while he is also suspicious of CTD.

Note to self: Look at CTD’s recent games, if there’s a friendly neighbor in it them he’s scum faking.

Note to the town: Nero has no intention of ever following up on this. If he thinks I'm good enough scum to fool almost the entire town with my play, it's completely nonsensical that he'd even entertain the idea that he could find a friendly neighbor in one of my past games. He's throwing around a bunch of theories with no regard for whether they actually make sense. Pseudo-scumhunting at it's finest.

Nero, I've ignored your incessant probing into our neighborhood because it was none of your business. If there was anything in our QT I thought the town needed to know, I would have mentioned it. You just got done mislynching Slandaar, who was even less interested in discussing our neighborhood QT than me, so why do you insist that this is scummy? I also don't remember you being anywhere near as interested in questioning any other neighbors about their QTs. I wonder why that is.

Re Bulba buddying me:
Maybe we have differing notions of what "buddying" means, but I didn't get the impression that Bulba was doing what he was doing to placate me in particular. If he truly believed in his theory yesterday, a certain amount of paranoia makes sense. Though it's just as likely (or maybe more so) that he was simply overreaching with his argument yesterday to save his own hide and now has to backpedal to maintain a semblance of reason.

The whole Bulba/Nero argument reads highly farcical to me. Nero is once again throwing out a wide net of conflicting theories ("Bulba is buddying CTD!", "Bulba reversed his read on CTD!", "Bulba and CTD might be scumbuddies!") and Bulba's arguments aren't much better. I think both their reasoning for changing their stance on me to a degree is independently questionable, but arguing over who's most guilty of trying to set up a lynch on me when no one is actually trying to lynch me is beyond silly. Their play today reinforces my suspicion that they are scum together. They magically ended up together on the Slandaar mislynch after being at each other's throat (more suspicious from Nero's end, who had every reason to vote Bulba since he was arguing for his lynch for a significant portion of yesterday, and pretty much had no reason to vote Slandaar after he conceded the scum-% point) and balls-to-the-walls crossbussing seems like a very appropriate follow-up. Whoever suggested that their argument felt forced was spot-on.

--------------------

CTD, it seems unlikely to me that a JK would protect the counter-wagon target after a town flip. Is Kublai Khan the type of player who would do that in your experience?

I have very little experience playing with Kublai Khan. I agree that jailkeeping the counter-wagon to a mislynch seems counter-intuitive, but from KK's perspective, Bulba fits everything you look for in a JK-target. No danger of blocking a town-PR and protecting a strong town read (also potentially blocking a scum kill/PR if he's wrong). It can't be discounted as a possibility and I'm therefore rejecting arguments like you've made against Rena.

---------------------

I am generally not averse to a PV lynch. I read his predecessor as scum and I agree that some of PV's play has been fishy in its own right. I'd like to see a concise summary of the case from Nacho (no quote-fest) before I consider moving my vote there though.

---------------------

Unvote, vote: Bulba

If you decide to finally stop giving Nero a pass, I'd much prefer lynching him still.

[Amethyst Kitty]

Oh hey, Mala posted

I'll be around to respond and post tuesday/wednesday

consider this V/LA on my end until then

~Mara

[Bacde]

Ugh

I'm about to make a case later today probably

[PeregrineV]

consensus achieved.

VOTE: PeregrineV

Nacho, I am holding you to this.

Ffery, I would like to seriously connect. I don't think we've made an effort lately but it sort of needs to be done.

Well, you had no problem calling my case on the dead town player crap. I guess your ISO will show similar disdain for all of the other cases on Slandaar. Otherwise, this looks very opportunistic, considering Nacho has no case on me besides "Useless", and you failed to comment on my case on Nacho.

Well, if ffull isn't going to vote Rena today and we're letting Seanald slip through our fingers yet again, I guess that'll do.

VOTE: Peregrine

If we never lynch either of those clowns I'm going to be mad at all of you.

Way too early in the day to jump on a wagon just to to be on one. You would have been smarter getting on later in the day. Or at least try to give a fake reason for voting me.

That might be the first genuine thing I've seen you say all game.

Unvote: Amethyst
Vote: Peregrine

Ah Desp. Bad vote, man.

[Desperado]

At least I can take solace in the fact that it wasn't as bad as your nacho case.

[PeregrineV]

At least I can take solace in the fact that it wasn't as bad as your nacho case.

Ahh, dem's fighting words.

Tear my case apart. Show me I'm wrong. Just saying it's bad doesn't really tell me or anyone else anything, now does it?

[Desperado]

...

[Desperado]

@ Cephrir & Bulba-

Why did I vote Nacho?

Well,
4843
4844
He's got a point.

4632
Nacho quoting Nacho as the reason to tunnel me.

4782
Voting for a town read in a game that does not require a majority lynch.

(lots of posts)
Buddying ffulisade

Everchanging and confusing reads (spoiled below):

Spoiler: Senald scum/not scum, Bulba not scum but 4806

you know that i would not call somene town unless my gut hardly says.. Nero is town. and If feel you're town. So, Now stop pissing each other..

Unvote, Vote: Seanald

And also i want to know what your thoughts on Cephier.

Cephrir's probably town.

let's look at cephrir. does anybody seriously believe that cephrir has no idea what to do with thad's "trolling". omg, no. I mean that is what cephrir is saying, "I have no idea what to do about thad's trolling cos I have just never encountered it before!". oh plz.

I've learned that trolling can apparently throw people off in extremely weird ways.

bacde, you freak me out because dragonballz.

- f

this essentially is dragonballz
and sooner or later everything will just click and a bunch of scum will die and everything will be okay.

Fery makes me sad on so many levels. Like SUPER SAD. ~~~Actually I said this to Mara after the Donner Party game ended. There was something similar that was said here to something said there. Bulb had a total different reaction to it here which made me lean town on him mainly because he was SK in DP.

I don't get it.

- f

they're town.

The only argument I've seen in Nero's defense is that his play here reminds people of other town games of his. I find this to be a very unreliable use of meta, because it assumes that Nero-scum is incapable of emulating his town play.

I trust mollie's (and AA's, believe it or not) instincts when dealing with Nero. Sometimes he plays great, sometimes he plays incredibly scummily, self-destructs, etc.

My problem with your Nero case lately is that we still don't even know it's multiball. If it isn't, your entire case goes up in flames. I think my Seanald case is stronger than your Nero case, straight up.

two kills per night --> claimed vig who hasn't shot --> "blue" scum all sort of equals multiball
if ThAd gets counterclaimed by bullets and flips blue scum, then maybe it's not multiball but that's looking HIGHLY unlikely at this point.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

ffery, I read this game and I don't think Seanald is scum here.
Do you agree or am I reading too much into his approach?

BULBAZAK HAS BEEN TOWN FOR THE WHOLE FUCKING GAME

FFERY MOLLIE IS CALLING BULBAZAK TOWN
FIX IT

Lack of scumreads even though 4-6 scum left (depending on your setup belief).

This case sucks.

- Bacde didn't have a point. His argument was "I've caught more scum than Nacho this game, so you should reconsider your townread on him (because that makes him scum)."
- Nacho quoted Nacho because you called him useless, so he posted what he felt were his most non-useless posts...with the obvious implication that they far outweigh what you might hypothetically include in a "Peregrine's Best Hits" style post.
- Where did Nacho have Slandaar as a townread? I see him showing suspicion as early as 1852, and he voted him in 3585 as well. Also...weren't you actively requesting people to vote Slandaar?
- What is your read on ffullisade and what specifically is scummy about Nacho's buddying?
- "Ever-changing" Seanald read: He applied pressure, did meta research, and changed his mind. What's scummy?
- "Ever-changing" Bulb read: Blatant misrep, on a typo no less! You can't be serious. Both posts in succession:

FFERY MOLLIE IS CALLING BULBAZAK TOWN
FIX IT

ISN'T*

Not even twenty posts ago.

[Desperado]

Otherwise, this looks very opportunistic, considering Nacho has no case on me besides "Useless", and you failed to comment on my case on Nacho.

Also this is a lie. Nacho hasn't cased you for being useless. You're the one who accused HIM of being useless.