The Red Wedding - The Goose is Loose

[Tierce]

Tierce, I didn't say you called me a lurker. I said that to demonstrate that how many games I am in is NOT relevant to anything, including my "state of mind" and I don't understand why you brought it up at all.

Except it is

obviously

relevant to me if Maf.Raptured was your one scum game, which

would

affect your state of mind here if you prefer playing Town and are out of the pressure of having to deal with the same players between two games with alignments that might or not differ. Obviously I'm not interested in your alignment in other games, but it was pretty damn important to verify if you acting more relaxed earlier Today had anything to do with being out of

scum games

altogether. This isn't rocket science,

and if you were reading the bloody game,

you'd realize that. But god help us if you ever bother to do so.

P-edit: I ain't even mad

Explain.


CDB--because I've never played with you face to face and I want someone who knows you well (i.e. not a couple of days or a week or whatever) to give me a second opinion, and since Nexus was acting paranoid of you earlier, I want to settle your alignment asap.

[tsunami]

But the town reads that I feel really good about right now are: CDB, Nexus, Mollie, Venmar and someone else...

Metal Sonic and Cabd are probs town. And I'm starting to lean town on Nacho.

Forgot to mention this last night. The someone else listed was Amrun. I didn't forget who it was and I listed it mostly as a reminder to myself for when the mafia raptured game was over. I didn't expect Tierce to start after me about forgetting it, though I suppose I should have expected someone would, but I had just been spoiled of Amrun's alignment in the raptured game and reviewed our interaction there and here and felt like it was way different. I couldn't really say that I all of a sudden had a townread on Amrun though without explaining and didn't want to endanger that other game, so I marked it here for me to come back to when that game ended.

[ChannelDelibird]

I understand the general "how good is CDB at face-to-face" question, Tierce. It's the bit about the video that I don't understand, if you already had a "there's only one answer" view to that in particular.

Anyway, there is a slight difference between someone who's played with me face-to-face and someone who knows me well. Nexus certainly knows me better than basically anyone else on the site but, for example, Amrun has probably played an equal or slightly greater amount of face-to-face mafia with me (and more recently). That's only a quibble, though. My link in 909 remains notable re: Nexus's paranoia.

[Tierce]

I understand the general "how good is CDB at face-to-face" question, Tierce. It's the bit about the video that I don't understand, if you already had a "there's only one answer" view to that in particular.

Because I think making a video and opening yourself to facial expression interpretation and etc. is Townish, but I don't know how good you are at deceiving in face to face or in casual conversation/sarcasm/whatnot. Nexus knows you and I imagine is more capable at reading you from a few seconds than anyone else on the site.

Tammy, then why this:

Ah Broseidon should actually be on my probs town list, not on my strong town read list. That's probably what I was actually missing now that I look at the front page, which I didn't think of before. Don't look at me that way

[ChannelDelibird]

Fair enough, I suppose.

Anyway, I hereby declare the CDB Mafia Sweet-Spot Zone officially closed for bed.

[Amrun]

Tierce, if you could stop insulting me for five seconds I'd really appreciate it. I don't see you doing this to anyone else you play with, and the more I try to just ignore it, the worse it seems to get.

Already today you have accused me of being stupid and of not ever reading the game, willfully. You have done it enough times in enough games that it is not alignment relative.

I don't care if you don't like me. Keep it out of this game. Keep it out of all games. I've really had enough of it. Being rude to me constantly is simply unacceptable and it is kind of annoying to me that everyone is just like cool with it, ALL the time. Knock it off.

I have read the game, and your posts. I don't always magically know exactly what you meant every time. In this case especially, the meaning of your question was not clear (to me, at least). Please keep future comments about me game-specific for the foreseeable future. Thanks.

[Amrun]

Now, back to game relevance: why are you uninterested in my opinion on CDB f2f?

[tsunami]

Tammy, then why this:

Ah Broseidon should actually be on my probs town list, not on my strong town read list. That's probably what I was actually missing now that I look at the front page, which I didn't think of before. Don't look at me that way

Because I did actually forget about Broseidon until you mentioned him, who should have been on my probstown list; he never would have been on my strong town read list just because I thought his weak day one reads thing sounded genuine. He didn't even tell a joke!

But you are honestly asking me why I tried to downplay something that I couldn't possibly answer that night? I guess I just don't get the purpose for you pointing that out. What would be my purpose for bringing back up something that grabbed your attention in the first place and put a lazor pointer at it if it wasn't what I was thinking?

Now if you want to analyze to see if it makes sense that I changed my read on Amrun based on that, fine. If you want to look at our interactions and accuse me of smoking crack, fine. But pointing out what you think is an inconsistency based on me not being able to explain why I changed a read on someone and playing part of it off, I don't get the point of that.

[tsunami]

Because as far as I'm concerned, that should be like a puzzle piece just got locked properly into place where one didn't quite fit before.

[Tierce]

I've said before that I'm not being rude. I said you can't read me (this is a fact and you said so yourself), and I said that you don't read the games you're in or bother to check things you state as "facts". I've said this before, it was true then, it is true now. I get frustrated because you act all high and mighty and omg Amrun is aaalways right regardless of alignment, but you don't bother to read back

ever

even when people ask you to do so or present quotes that contradict you. It's lazy, it's illogical and it's irritating. Cross-check your damn facts and assumptions if you're Town, and whatever you do, don't you dare complain that someone called you stupid even if they do:

[Metal Sonic]

's obviously stupid and I'm not at all convinced its real.

I could go on and on about you calling people stupid on MS.net games over the past year. Get your hypocritical whinging out of here, you have no grounds to complain if someone is less than kind toward you. I'm not going to sugar coat my opinion of your play for your benefit, especially if I think that talking about your playstyle is relevant to the game. I've explained this before.


And 1131 is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of you not reading the game. My written English is not complex and I've already explained why I'm not interested in your take on CDB, I'm interested in

Nexus's

. Want to go back to game relevance? I want an explanation for Post 993. Why did you make a point of saying you weren't bothered by a quickhammer on someone who you were calling scum and wanted lynched ASAP? It's overkill and it reads like "oh he's Town but I don't care" instead of "fucking finally scum is dead". And while we're at it, where's your inHim read TOday?


Tammy--no, I get the Amrun part, that one clicked and I don't think her play is quite the same either (I had a similar "huh, let's leave this read for later" Yesterday with Cabd and have since explained it), I was trying to figure out if you actually have/had a Townread on inHim or if that was just for show when I brought up the slot.

[Amrun]

If you were even USUALLY referring to my play as opposed to other things, it really wouldn't bother me, but you are usually not.

And it doesn't bother me that you said I can't read you; I said it first, if you'll recall. I got annoyed that you said I can't read you because I'm stupid. It's just unnecessary. Think it if you want. No need to say it.

Also, I call THINGS/PLAYS/POSTS stupid, just as I was in that quote, not people themselves. And I'm not perfect.

I also don't, and am still not, acting like I'm "always right." I just said I can't read you and don't trust my own read of you, for example, but you still just repeat things that aren't true as an excuse to antagonize me. That's the point of the game: find the things you think and go with them. There's no point in going "well maybe I am not right but I am going to proceed as if I am or otherwise the game will fall apart" every time I post anything. Nobody does that, so why you expect me and only me to do it is beyond me. The irony is that you constantly do what it is that you're accusing me of, but I don't see that as an issue because that's how the game is played. I would like this discussion to end here, but it probably won't. It boils down to this: regardless of your intentions, I often find your posts towards me unnecessarily rude and I would like you to be aware of this and try to curb it because it bothers me. If you would like to insult my play, that is also fine, but please limit it to my play. I have never minded the occasional insult but almost every post you address to me you actually go out of your way to make it an insult and I just don't understand why you need to do that.

I read your explanation, Mrs. Catty. CDB himself refuted it and said that I have as much or more f2f experience as nexus, and more recent at that. So if you are truly interested in reading cdb, why do you want ONLY nexus' opinion? How about instead of just assuming that other people can't read or are stupid, you find out what the other person is asking if you don't understand? That's not a difficult request; I trust that you are capable of common courtesy, even if you don't often display it. This will be the last time I ask. It's beyond the point where I have tried and tried to give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't know how you are coming off because English is your second language, because I've told you repeatedly and in the beginning, very gently.

As for post 993, sorry for not answering that immediately -- got distracted. Why did you ask about my inhim read as if it's germane to this discussion when it is not? Context should make my 993 quite obvious. Reck straight up troll hammered, complete with "idgaf" gifs. He hammered as he would have hammered anyone that got to L-1. Such a hammer is obviously anti-town, and ridiculous, but I said "I ain't even mad" because I thought he coincidentally hammered scum.

[Tierce]

Also, I call THINGS/PLAYS/POSTS stupid, just as I was in that quote, not people themselves.

Do yourself a flavor and search your own posts under Mafia games. No one's asking you to be perfect, but the hypocritical complaints are really jarring. I called Tammy a "smart cookie". We've played together a lot, tend to joke around, and I have more knitted bonnets than she does (a grand total of one). She started by being utterly incapable of reading me and has gotten far better over time

because she realizes I'm always Town

. You can't read me, but praising Tammy doesn't mean I'm calling you an imbecile. You know the only time I called

anything

stupid in this game? I said that

YOU

were pushing a wagon on KillerApple for KillerApple's stupid statements and failures at scumhunting. So, again, check your bloody facts before you begin a tantrum with how I treat you and hope that makes you look Town. Just because a post includes the word "stupid" and "Amrun" doesn't mean I am referring to you, unlike what you do, Mrs. "you are stupid but I only call THINGS/PLAYS/POSTS stupid".

I read your explanation, Mrs. Catty. CDB himself refuted it and said that I have as much or more f2f experience as nexus, and more recent at that. So if you are truly interested in reading cdb, why do you want ONLY nexus' opinion?

Because Metal Sonic flipped TOWN. It's not going to be a scumbuddy interaction, and I believe that having knowledge of how a person acts

outside the context of a game

is far more useful here than whatever it is you think you can provide. I need someone with a grasp on CDB's tendency to be sarcastic or not, poker-faced or not, "would-he-make-a-video-as-scum" or not. Nexus knows him better than you or anyone at Baltomeet will, and these are things that aren't grasped in quick face to face games as well as by having a deeper knowledge of the person. Got it?

Why did you ask about my inhim read as if it's germane to this discussion when it is not?

But it is. You called the BROseidon slot scum if Metal Sonic flipped Town, but have yet to mention anything to do with him Today or anytime since inHim replaced him. Why the disconnect from Yesterday? Was it such a minor thing that ought to be forgotten? You don't seem interested in that slot ever BROseidon replaced out, so what was bothering you then that got so quickly discarded, and why?

Context should make my 993 quite obvious. Reck straight up troll hammered, complete with "idgaf" gifs. He hammered as he would have hammered anyone that got to L-1. Such a hammer is obviously anti-town, and ridiculous, but I said "I ain't even mad" because I thought he coincidentally hammered scum.

I still think that's out of place, because

why

would you ever be annoyed about that hammer? I'd expect you, of all people, to welcome that hammer, but it reads as "lol, he was hammered, whatever" when you shouldn't be going "whatever" about it

at all

. That was the reaction of someone who thinks this is a troll hammer hitting annoying Town, not sheer vindication at hitting the scum player who fakedayvigged you.

[Amrun]

I am too sensitive when it comes to you, Tierce, because of history. I read, and still read, that post as calling me stupid, but of course I could be wrong, this being the internet and all. But instead of just saying, "Oh, I didn't intend that," you have to STILL INSULT ME instead, and that's the point I'm trying to make. It's unnecessary. (Oh, and by the way, yes, I called Albert R. Rampage stupid in that game, and then MY VERY NEXT POST was an apology because THAT'S INAPPROPRIATE and also I didn't actually think that, was just annoyed.)

I don't know why you think I don't have at least an idea about whether CDB is sarcastic, poker-faced, etc. I'm not saying you shouldn't also seek Nexus' opinion, or even that you shouldn't weight it more, but I don't find it authentic that you wouldn't want as much information as possible to evaluate, as town. You could use such information to read ME, even, but you're just flat not interested. I don't get why.

And oh, I see what you're saying about Bro/inhim. I actually forgot who inhim replaced, and I forgot that I said that about bro in the first place. I forget why I thought that but I'll check it out and get back to you in my next post.

And as for "I ain't even mad," perhaps you're unfamiliar with the phrase, but it's a meme, traditionally accompanied by a troll face. It means "trololololol YES" or more literally "I am the opposite of mad." Phrased that way, I understand the source of your confusion. It's a case of not-literal colloquial connotations of a phrase.

[Amrun]

Venmar you can be town. That is a really well put-together case with lots of town motivation seeping through.

Disagree with your MS point is as much as dayvig fakeclaim can be done by either alignment and there really isn't strong motivation one way or the other for it. Granted, I don't have that much experience with it (all my games where one happened are in progress), and I still need to read the MS wagon formation to judge what I think, but the dayvig claim should be treated as null.

pedit: Amrun that dayvig was probably a reaction test so who he targeted is not material.

pedit2: GOD DAMMIT STOP TALKING ABOUT THE DAYVIG LIKE IT WAS SERIOUS SO I CAN POST >:C

I'm ignoring your post on nexus because I don't think any of those things are particularly unlikely to come from nexus town and I don't want the town to get bogged down in discussion of someone else when I believe metal sonic should literally be being quicklynched with extreme prejudice.

I acknowledge that you made a case on nexus and I'm cogitating about it, but nexus is really far down my priority list right now.

P-edit: how do you know it's a reaction test?

If he were town, it might be, but I don't think his behavior came off genuinely so I don't think it is.

If metal sonic is town bro is scum.

Notice how you aren't dead.

Your logic is horrible.

OKAY

This is why I thought there was a connection between Bro and Metal, if Metal is town.

It feels less slam dunk to me now than it did then, but DEFINITELY still worth thinking about, and my trigger finger is itchy.

My logic then was that there is no way that Broseidon, as town, would KNOW this was a reaction test. He was TREATING Metal Sonic as town, in sure language, and in my mind this was like A HA HE IS SCUM IF METAL IS TOWN.

ONLY town can "reaction test." Scum can do other things in order to imitate a reaction test, but they aren't ACTUALLY reaction testing, so I think his language is telling here.

But right now I want to look into his read of the slot and stuff before and after that before drawing any final conclusions.

[Amrun]

Oh look MS being MS. You can be town for now.

Nacho, I'm town man

I see that there is an MS wagon forming, I assume counter to the KA wagon (unless another wagon formed and dissipated in what I need to catch up on). Gonna want to see this because MS is typically an easy mislynch for scum to push, so I will be interested to see if I notice anything fishy in how the wagon forms.

...Is this dayvig reaction test becoming a thing or something? Seriously why the fuck does anyone take it seriously.

Do not like Ank's reaction to it at all, though.

Eh.

He DID call MS town early on, and I still think his language is far too sure. Like, being "town for now" is enough to say all that? He is "typically" an easy mislynch, so he'll look for anything fishy [because ms is town this game]?

But overall, this is not as sure of a tell as I thought it was in the heat of the moment. I think it marginally raises the likelihood of this slot being scum, but not by THAT much and I'm still more interested in Dekes atm.

[Amrun]

Tierce, is your read on cabd because of KillerApple alone?

I ended up with KillerApple as quite town but I like cabd's posts far less.

(Sorry for the multiple posts, people.)

[xRECKONERx]

Hey look

I know I've been bad this game

I will shape up eventyally

Promises

[inHimshallibe]

Yeeeeah okay. I wanted to say that Amrun is more relaxed Today than she was Yesterday and that was the weight lifted from her one scumgame--but that doesn't even make sense with the number of games she's in.

I want to lynch the hell out of Venmar

for suggesting multibal

l/suggesting that AV was killed by scum. Didn't do it with Amrun in Maf.Raptured and I'm still biting myself over that one.

mollie? Mac's read on me. I don't want this tomorrow, I want it

now

.

Boring. So... that's the extent of your intra-hydra discussion, when you keep being curious about me? (Hint: I'm Town.)

macmollie hydra did this too.

[Venmar]

I want to lynch the hell out of Venmar for suggesting multiball/suggesting that AV was killed by scum.

Never suggested multiball. Suggesting AV was the kill instead of Nacho is

just my opinion

, since AV is a much more low profile kill imo.

--

Nexus is still giving me the eebie jeebies, every day that passes he stays more and more to his scum meta from Breaking Bad mafia...

In fact, Amrun can wait,

Vote: Nexus

[Nexus]

1 game meta. Way2go.

Tierce - CDB's video has made me more happy that he's town, but I don't want to let him ride a town read until Day X, so don't take it completely as read. I do know that in F2F he is easy as all hell to bus because he's a scumbag, but otherwise....eh.

Explain what you mean by 'scum meta.' I already refuted that I don't have a specific scum meta and one game is not enough to use as meta, so I'm just going to carry on as normal.

[Nexus]

VoteCount

KillerApple [4] - Ankamius, xReckonerx, Metal Sonic, macmollie

So why are you four voting for blindingly obvious town? Especially you mollie I missed you sooo much and this isn't you.

Is this the usual way in which Cabd enters the game? I find it very odd, and it's pinging a scumdar, albeit minor.

I’ll start with the four people voting for me cuz whynot. One per post, I like mini-walls more.

Ank first.

50 is where the vote goes down. It’s pretty damn RVS-ish from where I stand.

Unvotes in 61 for tierce’s questioning

Votes back to KA in 105. Man if all it takes for you to drop a scumread is a simple response like 104, you must really like waffles.

You say 115 and 121 pinged in 123. But then in 137 you say it was actually a super weak case? IDGI.

Re: 465, does bad logic a scum make?

All I see is killer using the wrong phrase, people pushing apple for it, them realizing they fucked up, and replacing out from sheer stopped-trying-ness?

Also, some lie that is. I’m current on plenty of ongoing games that i'm not playing in too. All I see is a newbie giving up here when they get stonewalled by a very intimidating player.

ISOs are a bad way to catch up on the game

So walk me through the scum motivation for both these posts. Especially the first one.

What just happened? So much valuable information... gone forever

VOTE: macmollie

I like this wagon.

UNVOTE: macmollie
VOTE: Generic

Cadb's early posts in the game were too busy trying to use KA's posts to convince us that he was town, rather than scum hunting. Town would, imo, replace in, check over what their predecessor said, and then carry on with the game. Scum have got more to lose, so need to spend their time justifying opinions. This, coupled with KA's generally scumminess, has yet to convince me of Cabd's towniness. I just don't see it.

[Nexus]

What I mean is bad posts does not equal bad player. Bad posts can come from good players, if they're scum.

This seems like an arbitrary distinction. So back to my original question:

What did Metal Sonic do that differentiates his brand of bad from KillerApple and macmollie?

OH I REMEMBER WHAT CONVINCED ME OF MS' TOWNINESS

THE FAKE DAYVIG!

As soon as it didn't go through, I was happy to leave him on the townpile. I should've done more to derail his lynch and I am sorry for not doing it.

Don't forget though, he was town. So anyone who ran him up should feel bad.

[Ankamius]

Nexus is still giving me the eebie jeebies, every day that passes he stays more and more to his scum meta from Breaking Bad mafia...

In fact, Amrun can wait,

Vote: Nexus

Oh.

So it looks like my town read of Venmar might have been in error.

[Venmar]

@Nexus - Easy to bash a town lynch after it has gone through and you know the facts rather than bash it before it goes through. :/

At least you acknowledge it, but it doesn't change the matter of the fact.

[Venmar]

Nexus is still giving me the eebie jeebies, every day that passes he stays more and more to his scum meta from Breaking Bad mafia...

In fact, Amrun can wait,

Vote: Nexus

Oh.

So it looks like my town read of Venmar might have been in error.

Oh. Okay whatever