Mini 1468: Legends of the Hidden Temple- Game Over!

[Wisdom]

Actually no my vote was fine there.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Grim

[Majiffy]

wtf? Policy? Did you miss the fact that I think you're scum?

I missed the part where you gave any semblance of a reason to call me scum.

This feels contrived.

[Grimgroove]

I told you that whoever goes against the will of the town will get lynched this time. Die.

Wisdom is calling for a policy lynch on me because I didn't do what town wanted. Really? With all this other stuff to get reads from, this is his line of thinking now? And NOBODY calls him out on it.

The same goes for this btw
Wtf
I didn't vote you because you challenged.

lol

Oh well, then I guess it was a coincidence that your vote was a pedit right after I challenged. My mistake.

There's this signature I recently saw, under fferyllt's posts, and it reminded me of this situation. Go check it out.

But ok, what are your reasons to vote me?

[Wisdom]

Both Grim and enomis seem to want Elyse in the lynchpool, and they don't want to challenge each other. Possibly because they thought they'll have my support on an Elyse lynch.
I guess you guys might be right about them.
I don't oppose the 1v1.

Then you challenged, so I voted you.

[Grimgroove]

Wisdom is calling for a policy lynch on me because I didn't do what town wanted. Really? With all this other stuff to get reads from, this is his line of thinking now? And NOBODY calls him out on it.

The same goes for this btw
Wtf
I didn't vote you because you challenged.

Tell me how my original quote was wrong.

[Wisdom]

I missed the part where you gave any semblance of a reason to call me scum.

If you think I've forgotten what you did on D1 you're silly. I still think you're scum for that, despite you trying to cover it up.
Now if we add your odd behavior regarding the challenges ("we have suspects in Green and Orange who can challenge each other" - then "no I don't suspect anyone in Orange"), your play having become lazy and not feeling in the least bit like your townplay, your ridiculous push on Elyse, as well as PoE, then there you have enough reasons for you being scum.

[Wisdom]

Grim, you're not this stupid.
Your actions towards the end of yesterday don't make any sense. You had been pushing Amrun forever, there is no way you would ever suddenly unvote her. You go to push Elyse instead, then you (correctly) call her town for her posts and go back to voting Amrun. And today you call Elyse scum again, like nothing happened. No. This whole thing is weird as hell. The only non-weird part is that Elyse was indeed very townish in these posts. She's town. You aren't.

[Grimgroove]

Both Grim and enomis seem to want Elyse in the lynchpool, and they don't want to challenge each other. Possibly because they thought they'll have my support on an Elyse lynch.
I guess you guys might be right about them.
I don't oppose the 1v1.

Then you challenged, so I voted you.

Yes, "contrived". So everything you said after that about me having to die for going against the will of town should just be ignored? Not policy related at all?
You're voting me because "you guess" yet another hyopthesis could be correct, based on me not wanting to challenge enomis for reasons I already clarified: I don't want a 1vs1 right now. Despite a scumread on enomis, it's no use for me to go after him in a lynchpool with only ymself as the alternative. Some townies think this lynchpool would have a guaranteed scum flipping, but given that I know my alignement, I know they are wrong. Think about what you would do. You, as town, alone in a team, challening another person you think is scum. Would you do it? No. So neither should I.

About your "reason":

As you correctly said, I challenged green after this post. Would I still think I have your support on an Elyse lynch at that point? Hypothesis gone.

[Grimgroove]

Grim, you're not this stupid.
Your actions towards the end of yesterday don't make any sense. You had been pushing Amrun forever, there is no way you would ever suddenly unvote her. You go to push Elyse instead, then you (correctly) call her town for her posts and go back to voting Amrun. And today you call Elyse scum again, like nothing happened. No. This whole thing is weird as hell. The only non-weird part is that Elyse was indeed very townish in these posts. She's town. You aren't.

No, I'm not this stupid. Read my posts starting from 2136, and try to read more than just the sentences that have your name in it.

I unvoted her precisely because I started to suspect Elyse from doing what I think she's doing as explained in 2137, causing a momentary pause in my read on Amrun. But I got so far in with Amrun, I could never truly convince myself of her not being scum.

[Wisdom]

No, it was part of the reason sure. By challenging green, you avoided challenging enomis, further confirming that most likely both of you are scum. It was what town wanted, and you ignored it. And your "spur of the moment" excuses are bullshit. Majiffy maybe managed to get away with it, but you won't. You're not Majiffy. You use your brain before you act.

[Grimgroove]

It was what town wanted,

Not from my point of view.

[Grimgroove]

No, it was part of the reason sure. By challenging green, you avoided challenging enomis,

further

confirming that most likely both of you are scum. It was what town wanted, and you ignored it. And your "spur of the moment" excuses are bullshit. Majiffy maybe managed to get away with it, but you won't. You're not Majiffy. You use your brain before you act.

Further?
Could you point me to the earlier confirmations that me and enomis are scum together?

[Wisdom]

Read the posts of people wanting you to challenge each other.

[Grimgroove]

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you? There's not a single argument inthere.

These are the posts of said people, both from the Green team, who are far from "town" in my eyes. And as far as you're concerned, you change your mind every 35 minutes about what you want, so excuse me for not factoring that in.

Lol Wisdom I actually hope you're scum because your play is horrible if you're town.

I gave my reasons for Amrun town and thought that consistently through the game. That's not white knighting.

I think Grim/enomis should face off. I hope people realize how retarded Wisdom is being and don't listen to him. Him thinking I'm scum with qwints is just

Grim's waffling towards the end of yesterday was terribad. As was enomis escaping by lurking and AP letting him. I think Grim should challenge enomis. I wouldn't mind putting AP in the lynch pool after that hammer.

@elyse: why not you challenge me or grim?
Nice idea?

Because you and Grim would guarantee a scum lynch.

I think it would be good if you re-read everything since Amrun's flip, you haven't been paying attention.

[Wisdom]

I've done that already.

[Wisdom]

Anyway
Majiffy/Grim/enomis.

I'm done second-guessing.

[Grimgroove]

[enomis]

Grim is town.

Wisdom, you are being an idiot.

Anyone who have his town meta: does he push stupid aruments like this when town?

[Wisdom]

Who is scum then, enomis?

[Wisdom]

And why are you, once again, not voting?

[enomis]

? I am trying to figure out. I am getting pretty iffy about you.

I am not voting because I find voting for the sake of voting bad.

[Wisdom]

I don't see you trying to figure out anything

[Grimgroove]

General impressions, not based on any ISO'ing but my current and, when relevant, past thoughts about them.
Quite surprising this hasn't been done before. Another sign that town, me included, has been playing like headless chickens so far. I'm done trying to make sense of which scumteams make sense and which do not, it's obvious scum as a team is way out of my league in this regard, it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to make sense out of any team without having second thoughts about it only seconds after. The same is true for quite a few individual reads I have, and the more I go into detail when reading people, the more I am confused. Well done to scum for that, truly and sincerely. I think I'm not the only one who is being put for a choice: start all over again and re-analyze everything (a hassle), stick to your current thoughts (possibly mistakingly) or micro-manage the discussions you can make sense of and try to do something from there. I think that, instead of replying to everything that moves, the last option will be my only possible way to somehow contribute to town winning this thing.

I want to start off with these general impressions, which are not a clean slate, but give order to my current and previous thoughts, and it might provide a way for you people to make sense of what I've been doing that you seem to find bizarre. Or maybe it doesn't. Sometimes I might drift off in stories related to the names that go beyond reads, you'll have to bear with me. I'm going to avoid looking for links between players at this stage, so don't be surprised if I end up with 4 or 5 scumreads who can't possibly be in a team together according to most. But close to nothing is impossible at this stage.

enomis

: I think he's scum. His posts seem calculated, with his latest townread on me as a prime example of that. It looks so mechanical. He hasn't really scumhunted at all, and his lack of voting is really a problem. The reason why he's the only one who fits in pretty much every scumteam is because he has never really engaged with anyone. He defends himself excellently, but scum can pull that off as well. He also claims to be at a loss, like myself and Wisdom evidently are, but somehow his exasperation about this does not look natural at all. I don't think he cares, because I don't think he truly is lost. He's over at Scum Island watching us drift away to the horizon.

Majiffy

: To be honest, I still haven't got more on him compared to sixty pages ago. He's forceful and thanks to this he seems genuine, "too bold to be scum" as you will. The main thing I dislike is how at first he read me as obvscum, something that suddenly/gradually/I don't know how or when or why changed into him staying off my back completely. I think he has sensed I'm at a complete loss, and may attempt to buddy me, knowing my presence is more of an asset to him than my getting lynched because I pose no danger to him, and definitely will not if my credibility is further compromised through mislynch after mislynch. His reads do coincide with mine in a lot of cases and I'm starting to wonder if he's stimulating my faulty reads in order to keep me off-track, or if he is genuinely on the same track as I am. No idea what to make of him.

pirate mollie

: Ever since our initial fallout I've had her as my top townread. Now it has faded, mainly because she doesn't seem very involved in the game anymore. While her reactions overflow with the "genuine"-factor, there is also an element of overdefensiveness in it that is rather a nullread than a townread. She might find it very hard to accept criticism as any alignment, and it is possible that even as scum she is genuinely offended by some arguments brought forward against her. I can't deny that I like the fact she reads me as town, that read seems genuine and not a buddy-effort. She doesn't seem the type for buddying, so in a way this townread is a big factor in me reading her as town as well. Don't think she's scum, but it would be great if she'd get more involved in the game, even if only to come to my aid.

Elyse

: This one is really difficult. Probably the most difficult of all of them. I can copy/paste what I said before about this all-knowngness she seems to portray. It just doesn't feel like she's scumhunting. It feels like she already knows how everyone is aligned, and uses this knowledge to her strategical advantage by townreading those in distress and scumreading those who are scumhunting but on the wrong track. Nobody Special was the ideal scum-sacrifice to this end, and Amrun, a close to universal scumread, the perfect buddy. But there is the chance Elyse is simply a far better townplayer than I am and just expects the same qualities from other town, resulting in a genuine scumread on me for failing to live up to these standards. I really don't know. No clue. But I'll lynch her over myself, obviously, so I won't have any qualms to vote her if a majority on qwints is out of the question.

qwints

: He's my strongest scumread of this current lynchpool. He doesn't really stand out in many ways, even though it's a bit better than Safety Dance. He always seems to go for the easy arguments that are right in front of everybody's noses, without really making the effort of delving too deep or thinking two or three steps ahead. While his arguments against me may seem "sensible" at first sight, they are nothing more but convenient. He's cashing in on doubts I was having near the end of Amrun, doubts that I fully explained and clarified. A lot of his reads revolve around enomis and how people interact with him. Yet enomis didn't flip, and the scumread he has on enomis is backed up by rather superficial argumentation. I wanted to give him slack for arriving in the game late at the start, but he's being lazy and I never truly got the impression he was scumhunting. He stays on the surface and does as much as he can to stay out of the spotlight.

Angry Pidgeon

: In general, I like him as town. His posting style is fluid and looks extremely genuine for the most part. My personal run-ins with him though do detract from that image somewhat. Initially in the game his focus on me seemed very uncalled for and looked like a scum-veteran trying to strongarm a less experienced townplayer into getting himself lynched. Sometimes he shows bouts of reluctance to get me lynched and tries to come off as the sensible guy who can be reasoned with, but as far as I as a topic is concerned, I don't really see that happening. His emotional defense at his moment of greatest distress was very convincing, but somebody (was it Venmar?) rightly said that he could have just spicened up some real-life events to get the desirable results of everyone townreading him after that. He could definitely be scum, but if he is, he's way out of my league.

Venmar

: I've had a grand total of zero direct interactions with him.

Zero

, or at least I can't recall any. I have rarely talked about him, he rarely talked about meµ. I've never asked him a question, he never asked me a question. I don't know if this is just the case for me, but trying to think about what I think about him made me realize how big of an enigma he is within this game. The only thing that he's currently being remembered for is his reaction test on Angry Pidgeon with the fake hammer. Re-reading that it wasn't his initial plan to do so, but just improvised a bit based on a question Amrun asked. If you read that again, it becomes less obvious he's scumhunting and more obvious he's just playing around a bit. I'm starting to think I may have given him too much credit for this maneuver, and given how it is basically the only memorable thing he's done in this game, I'd call this guy at least some form of a lurker. He has moved under the radar throughout most of the game. He could definitely be scum.

Wisdom

: Mr. Hyperactive. I'm getting strong townvibes from him, because I have the feeling we're both in the same situation: town lost at sea. Ironically, it's a sea that was in big part created by the two of us (top-posters) and in a way we have been drowning ourselves. He has brought forward a lot of idiotic arguments I think, but I can't manage to see the scum-motive behind them anymore. At some point I thought he was, but I don't think he could keep that up as scum. He changes his mind 48 times a day, which could be perceived as opportunistic scum, but I don't see it that way. He's actively looking up posts from the past, trying to make sense of what people have beens aying, finding contradictions, trying to find links between people. He still has the illusion he'll make sense of it one day, I doubt he will, but I wish him the best of luck in this endeavor. Don't lynch him. He rattles cages and at some point one of his theories could hit a scumnerve. He's my only clear townread. If he's scum he deserves an award if only for sheer efoort and succesfully making this thing into a ball of chaos and getting towncred for it simultaneously. But like I said, I don't think this is what happened and I can't help but see the town intentions of it all. More love for this guy!

Right now we're looking at a situation with 3 scum vs. 6 town. This gives us only

two more mislynches

! This makes me realize I have to really hang my head in shame for already issuing this challenge. It was a very stupid thing to do in case none of the greens are scum, and even if there is scum in green it was, in the end, guesswork based on impulses. It's a combination of lack of realization we don't have a lot of room for mistakes anymore and an uncalled for conviction that at least one of the greens and possible both of the greens are scum. I believe less and less in both of them being scum the more I think about it, making me fear I might have played perfectly into the cards of scum.

Given this situation I'd also look at people who are not angry with me at all over this challenge. But maybe I wasn't the only one who didn't yet realize the possible gravity of the situation.

My vote remains on qwints for reasons states above.

I would welcome any similar lists from other players as well as remarks on mine.

[Wisdom]

Fucking game

UNVOTE:
VOTE: qwints

[Venmar]

This game.

Wisdom, why do you always twitch and change your votes when someone wall posts. Do you even read them?