How long does it take for you to respond to 2-4 questions?In post 923, Gen_Wolf wrote:Sorry roadtripped yesterday then was drunk last night, will go back and look over it.In post 920, jmo16mla wrote:Mk. To add to the above post. Either both scum are on the wagon right now.
One scum is BEING waggoned and the other is voting him.
One scum is being waggoned, and the other scum is not voting him.
I still want to go with TIP an gen scum team. The whole game sets them up as scum together. Gen was dropping town tells, or what I thought could have been town tells earlier. But he has since ignored my questions multiple times. Leading me to believe that he isn't actually reading the game(scum) and is just posting about current discussion.
for now
unvote
In post 927, TheIrishPope wrote:Stupid test? Is that supposed to be good?
Either are alright. Slight preference to Gen, I'd say. He's been here for longer.
If you had said you suspected either jmo or I to be scum you are almost assuredly mafia. Very simple check to pass, but sometime the stupidest things are what make people stumble.Tamuz wrote:TownTIP has to assume jmo and I are town as does scumTIP.
In post 214, Hyperion wrote:I see very little in Gen Wolf's posts that would help us catch scum. Its alot of "I agree" or "I disagree" on matters of gameplay that are more about mafia theory than the game at hand. Theres just not alot of substance. Also, he replaced THane, who was on the sidelines, and didnt do anything. I'm leaning scum, but would like to hear alot more from Gen Wolf since he just replaced in.
So hyperion(tamuz's slot) begins his game with a bunch of fairly neutral reads, and he makes sure to word these so he can maneuver around should these people unload scumtells, or as it happens, he needs to post a scum read for content. I find him putting as many town reads as he did to be somewhat self-aware, and you can see him trying to frame these people's post as pro-town.In post 215, Hyperion wrote:Isoing Honeybee and Talah give me the same feels as my original read through did. Honeybee puts alot of pressure and analyzes into each and every one of her posts. Talah on the other hand, clearly has no idea what he is doing, and looking at the way he is posting, I find it very hard for him to be scum because if he was I feel like he would be making more of an effort to scumhunt instead of posting plays. He is town, but is a liability do to his lack of knowledge/skill. I am 90% sure that both are town.
Will do more later.
In post 263, Hyperion wrote:Kitty
Town. Puts alot of pressure in alot of different directions. I might maybe (but probably not due to my schedule) go looking for one of her scum games during night phase to see what she is like as scum, but for now I am still confident in my read of her.
This is an awful post, where he attacks GreyWing as scum, when all he can provide to back him up aretwo "contradictory" posts which actually both say that greywing doesn't think gmo is scum. He also takes the opportunity to tell off greywing for making a post that amounts to asking morthax to explain his vote, and latches onto greywing really slowly, instead of straight out confronting him to explain his reads. He's still trying to go neutral at the end.In post 356, Hyperion wrote:Responding to Mothrax.
Looking back, I saw very little defense of JMO by GW. The big one is this.He claims it was a gambit and attacks Mothrax, then he says he doesnt think JMO is scum (no explanation) and says the wagon is scum driven.In post 301, Greywing wrote:I agree with Jmo. Scum caught.
VOTE: Mothrax
I don't believe Jmo's scum. This is a scum-driven wagon and Mothrax fell for Jmo's bait (the vote on Mala.) Mothrax's vote was so blatantly opportunistic.
I'd wager that the other scum is on this wagon too and pushing it heavily: one of Talah/GenWolf.
The majority of his defense is actuallt attacking MOthraxThis is an older post of Grey's, he thinks JMO could be scum. THen he leaves and comes back like 4 ish pages later defending him.In post 206, Greywing wrote:I already gave my reads, but ok, I'll bite.
I don't know. Could potentially be scum, but he's not among my bigger scumreads.
Defense=Bad.
Possibly scum buddies. Possibly SCum GW setting up a MOthrax lynch if JMO flips town. Possilby Grey is town and he is just defending the wrong person.
Looking at nightkills is WIFOM and generally doesn't help town, but I'm going to waste your time with it for as long as I can get away with.In post 532, Hyperion wrote:OK, so, thinking about the HB kill. Night kill analyses would get us nothing, as it was a rather obvious kill since she was town as fuck and everyone else in the game had at least 1 person suspecting them. Tonights kill will probably be pretty informative.
To the last, he wants to make sure he has the go-ahead to switch between wagons without being called out for consistency. He brings up a generic measure of scuminess "not answering questions makes them be passed over easily in the future and is anti-town" doesn't seem to notice that people bringing up posts unrelated to the main wagons are just as fluffy as what he calls calling out my own ability to understand.In post 596, Hyperion wrote:My thoughts/comments are in bold. Also Gen's hop onto the GIF wagon was pathetically opurtunistic.In post 517, Greywing wrote:"Guys, guys, look how cooperative I am! Ignore the fact that my predecessor dropped scum-tells, I've jumped on every available wagon in order to push a lynch, and have continuously posted fluff in order to look active...I'm willing to do anything for you guys, I *must* be Town!"In post 514, talah wrote:Sure you can ask me anything.
VOTE: Talah
Is this the most important reason for you voting him? You don't even mention anything prior to this being scummy, but then this six word statement garners a vote on day 2. Bad vote
Explain to me what I misread.In post 514, talah wrote:While I'm answering questions, I might as well throw in:
Grey this is ridiculous. Why didn't you drop back in and say oops when you re-read it and realised (probably moments after posting it) that you've misread the sentence? Seems like you have time to drop in whenever you want to make a demand or place some allusion on someone's intent but absolutely no time to answer the questions given to you. This is pretty much the same complaint I had of jmo to start with, but I have to re-read jmo in light of heavy tunnelling. If you're doing the same thing to me, and ignoring my own questions, from experience it can be a slippery slope.In post 508, Greywing wrote:Care to quote where I said this?In post 502, Gen_Wolf wrote: (...)
You say mothrax would have been blameless for a no lynchbut I also see no way we can blame him in this situation as he was not on the wagon?
As well, I have no time to answer questions fromscum reads.I've been perfectly happy answering questions from Honey, Jmo and Mala since I trust them.
But answering questions allows for more information out into the town, helping to focus your thoughts and helping us catch scum. Besides just because they are your scum reads does not mean they can't possibly be town. This is a cop out to keep from answering questions.
I'll answer the first question for you, since you clearly have some problems putting information together.In post 514, talah wrote:So this:Why did you ask this? How does it help town?In post 396, Greywing wrote: @Jmo: Before someone hammers you, do you see Talah as the most likely partner for Mothrax then?
...And other recent questions from Gen, and previous questions, go completely unanswered. (I give you credit for your most recent post which is actually a direct answer.) But seriously, we need to scumhunt, which means if you're town you need to be open to answering all kinds of questions, not just the ones that suit you. You had that attitude early on yourself pestering Tybalt (or Thane?) for the answer to a question. Y U NO answer questions?
I assumed Jmo was soon to be dead due to the wagon forming, and the reads of the playerlist regarding him. I wanted his opinion before he died. I fail to grasp why this was so tough to understand.
Gen or Grey wagons both have my stamp of approval.
VOTE: Grey
He's letting people see that he knows TIP is mafia here....but the motive of this post is too buddy jmo, and that apperently includes giving TIP a chance to prove being town. He calls it the stupidtest, and it's done nothing to give TIP a chance to make a town post, instead it lets him claim"voting me or jmo is a scum action" He's buddied with jmo, kept his ability to stand on scum TIP, and now he's going to go knock on both my and gen_wolf's doors(regardless of TIP definitely only having one partner), and all for jmo's "benefit".In post 921, Tamuz wrote:jmo. I do not think you are scum.
If you don't think I am scum, I think the better play is to lynch from [Gen_wolf, N64] today. I can go through the whole reasoning, but you should be able to work through the logic, given our conditionally innocence.
It is awful annoying that there is a post flurry that spawns questions and then nobody answers any of them or tries to introduce new thoughts (outside of we two) here, but what can you do.
I would like to hear Gen answer the questions pointed to him. I would like N64 to rephrase the thing I don't understand... or at least make an effort to make me understand it. I'd also like TIP to tell me who he thinks the two scum are and at least 2 sentences per person of why.
If I'm lucky I get 1/3, but they'd all be nice.
(of course there is always a possibility that TIP is town and jmo or I are mafia and we're just being cocky assholes, but I shudder to think anyone believes this.)
This whole posts shows why TIP is scum, he's clearly buddying the active people who have "weakened" and his n64 and gen wolf as scum is based off of generalities again, as for being conservative, I posted an ISO on the slot you replaced, had to live with jmo and tamuz, "agreeing" with me by jmo's vote and tamuz ISO, and when I voted you, I provided my response to your claim(it's fake) and I poke into how the other player's received it in hopes of catching your partner.In post 922, TheIrishPope wrote:If there are any questions directed at me, I'd gladly take them.
lol at the two sentences.
N64: His whole slot has been controversial. I feel he is scum because he is non-committed and wants to lynch everything in his way. Town would be more conservative and careful.
Gen: His coordinated attack to lynch me with N64 makes perfect sense. Admits that this vote is OMGUS (which I see as scummy). Then throws the word "bus" around. Say what now?
You two are not scum. Tamuz, you would be flailing more. jmo, you would be frustrated differently.
Tamuz wrote:1. What is the situation where all 3 town have to vote before the scum vote?N64Lord wrote: Finally the concern about quickhammering, in a game where all players have a degree of neutral behavior, would only be an isue if scum expected town to act randomly, forcing a situation where all 3 town would have to vote before the scum laid their votes, but painting that as anti-town behavior.
2. Could you rephrase this for me?
3. Are we already posturing for tomorrow N64Lord?
4. Could you sum up my N64Lord as scum pitch?
5. Could you rephrase your bit that I quoted in 914?
Tamuz wrote:1. What?Guys, at some point we are going to have to lynch, I hate losing so I hope you are right but I think Tamuz has the most compelling case. I am willing to vote TiP today, lets hope you right.
2. You hope TIP is right about his claim?
jmo16mla wrote: 1. So my question for you gen, what over the last four pages, makes me and/or tip scum?
2. Also, what made you vote me when I was voting for TIP?
3. Why dd you unvote if he was in no danger of being quick hammered?
4. Do you think TIP is now town?
Gen_Wolf wrote:Oaks im going to be v/la till Sunday. Apologies but we have 8 days so no need to panic. Thanks
If you are going to call out a noise posting, please put it in perspective. Is this an isolated low-meaning post or part of a pattern of fluff that are used to avoid actually talking about the game? If not, what is your point? (you have no point).N64Lord wrote:Looking at nightkills is WIFOM and generally doesn't help town, but I'm going to waste your time with it for as long as I can get away with.
I don't quite see where there is any assertion that I know TIP is mafia. And the motive? Enjoy pushing things into holes where they don't belong much.N64Lord wrote:He's letting people see that he knows TIP is mafia here....but the motive of this post is too buddy jmo
You, TIP, jmo and I have all stated that TIP cannot, despite any alignment, publicly hold that jmo or I are scum. One step further TownTIP KNOWS jmo and I are townies and KNOWS you and gen are scum. Expression of anything else can only indicate ScumTIP.N64Lord wrote:and that apperently includes giving TIP a chance to prove being town. He calls it the stupidtest, and it's done nothing to give TIP a chance to make a town post, instead it lets him claim"voting me or jmo is a scum action" He's buddied with jmo, kept his ability to stand on scum TIP, and now he's going to go knock on both my and gen_wolf's doors(regardless of TIP definitely only having one partner), and all for jmo's "benefit".
In post 936, N64Lord wrote:I posted an ISO on the slot you replaced, had to live with jmo and tamuz, "agreeing" with me by jmo's vote and tamuz ISO, and when I voted you
| Slot | L-2 | L-1 | Hammer |
|---|---|---|---|
| jmo | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| N64lord | 9 | 1 | 0 |
| tybalt | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Tamuz | 1 | 1 | 0 |
| TheIrishPope | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| Greywing | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| Honey Bee | 1 | 0 | 0 |
| mothrax | 2 | 0 | 0 |
| Gen_wolf | 2 | 0 | 0 |
Tamuz wrote:I trust machine learning better than my failed gestalt. I tunnel and become a bad investigator as I'm sure [everyone does].
[line][/line]
The lynch rate when I played was very close to chance, and I know from experience I don't really outperform it. [...] humans SUCK at fair pattern evaluation. We're amazing at finding patterns, but we suck at differentiating patterns from a gestalt and once we've made up our mind we don't like changing it. Machine learning does not have these shortcomings and, unlike me, my computer doesn't sleep(and can process 300 posts in 1s).
Then again, you aren't original.TIP wrote:You are fabricating ideas of your own. You expect people to follow your ideas and fit into your perspectives. You want them to be you. That's not good. Mafia is not a game of individuals. Mafia is a game of many people. With that being said, you have to respect there are different playstyles and that not everyone thinks and acts like you. They are not you. You are you. You have to leave your stubbornness at the door if you want to enter. You can't waltz in, set ideas on the table and expect-no, demand- people to do what you say.
Realistically we're going to disagree and only education can even make it possible for us to discuss this disagreement. Its not gonna happen in the time span of this game. So ignore data if you want, but don't urge others to. Also...it still boggles my mind how much people think can't be quantified.Tamuz wrote:scummy, gut, townie, scumdar. All of these words are buzzwords with no perspective to truth values.
At least with machine learning I know the pattern is real and is based on true data. A 'gut feeling' is not.
I don't intend to replace logic, game-knowledge and hypocrisy detection [...]. You trust your gut. I trust statistics. Only one of these is grounded in reality.
Code: Select all
tybalt 0.6739290585
Honey bee 0.7616532789
Greywing 0.7080042843
uoyeluri Hyperion Fropome Tamuz 0.8380748249
ThaneArvan Gen_Wolf 0.5875254479
N64Lord Luigilewis889 talah 0.7057777549
GuyInFreezer mothrax 0.8897878803
Malakittens TheIrishPope 0.7674508818
jmo16mla 0.8750209462