Newbie 1393 Game Over

[Smudger]

Dessew if that is a quote or reference to "princess bride" then that is new to me. I am a 50 year old man and have absolutely no idea about the reference. What I was alluding to was the fact that HC stated no experience but then says "we almost fell victim to one of the classic blunders.... If I have misread that then I will remove that from my observations.

[Z7-852]

I stand behind mvmafia lynch on first day. Unlike FuDuzn (#340) I believe that lynching a inactive player is most useful during first day because you can't have much else information unless there is a clear scumslip.

At some level I don't buy Dessew story (#345) about Smudgers hammervote. It would be a real high risk to get so much attention to oneself just to avoid lynch. Right now I'am looking interactions between players and I noticed that Dessew and HopefullyCynical haven't really mentioned each other the whole game. Smudger have steadily been bashing everyone and even FuDuzn have had some interaction with everyone else but these two have been been keeping distance the whole game (except few early game post).

Ps. I got a project call yesterday and I will be

V/LA till next Monday

. I know this sucks but summertime is little like this to me.

Scumometer (tm)
HopefullyCynical < Dessew < FuDuzn < Smudger

[Dessew]

Smudger: Okay then, fair enough, although HC reacted to it in #280:

Also post 83 was simply a Princess Bride reference, don't read too much into it. And in post (132) I was (mis)quoting DDP's reference to Goodfellas, it was not an outburst. Hence my inexperience in forum-based mafia.

Z7: Yes, it is risky, but here's a post of yours earlier:

Both

Smudger

and Notscience were skeptic about Feel during D1 and Smudger even voted him twice. But I would say here that Smudger would be too obvious target and scapegoat to be a scum. This actually make Smudger a towner that before in my books.

It could've encouraged him.
About HC: he's my no 1 townread, and imho almost every time he posts he's more and more townish. Reason: He lacks experience (he says so and his posts show so, too), yet his posts seem to be übergenuine and sometimes spontaneous.

[Smudger]

I have a strong feeling Dessew is town based on something he said back in D1 I think regarding a possible L-1 on myself. that coupled with his overall play, or it is very good camouflage, unless of course you are an Alt, you are not are you Dessew?

I have also been looking for breadcrumbs and can't find any.....

[FuDuzn]

Smudge, care to link us to what you are talking about in regards to Dessew.

Also, are you trying to figure out pr's? I say unless there is a cop with at least one guilty then you shouldn't go outing anybody. Though I could see a mass claim working here, if Z7 was not vla for awhile though.

[Smudger]

Smudge, care to link us to what you are talking about in regards to Dessew.

Also, are you trying to figure out pr's? I say unless there is a cop with at least one guilty then you shouldn't go outing anybody. Though I could see a mass claim working here, if Z7 was not vla for awhile though.

I wanted to vote for Smudger but then he would've been on L-1 so I choose notscience because his first vote wasn't sympathetic to me.

you could say your "cop" statement made me think and thus my breadcrumb search. So a mass claim would work IMO as I have a very good idea what row/column we are using.

[Dessew]

I'm not an alt, they aren't even allowed to play in newbie games.
Massclaim can work, if there were two PRs, we would have at leat one confirmed townie (the one that has no counterclaim), it's worth the risk. However, we should try to figure out who's scum without claims, if there's no success this week, we still have the next week when Z7 isn't going to be V/LA.
Looking for breadcrumbs is a good idea, I don't get what your problem is FuDuzn. Smudger didn't say that he's going to post all the breadcrumbs he will have found.
What's up with HC, he hasn't posted for like a day.

[Smudger]

I'm not an alt, they aren't even allowed to play in newbie games.
Massclaim can work, if there were two PRs, we would have at leat one confirmed townie (the one that has no counterclaim), it's worth the risk. However, we should try to figure out who's scum without claims, if there's no success this week, we still have the next week when Z7 isn't going to be V/LA.
Looking for breadcrumbs is a good idea, I don't get what your problem is FuDuzn. Smudger didn't say that he's going to post all the breadcrumbs he will have found.
What's up with HC, he hasn't posted for like a day.

I am 99% sure I am right, I think we should popcorn claim.

[HopefullyCynical]

What is a popcorn claim? And what's the difference between normal claims and massclaims, like what are the pros and cons of them?

Dessew, what are your thoughts on everybody? Since you were somewhat inactive for the notscience fiasco, I'd like to know your thoughts on everybody's alignment. It sucks that Z7 won't be active very active this week, but at least we have plenty of time to make a decision.

Fu, same question for you.

"What's up with HC, he hasn't posted for like a day" -Dessew

Did you miss me? HC has a life too haha

[HopefullyCynical]

Also Smudger, what do you think of Z7?

[Smudger]

a popcorn claim is that one persons starts and claims their role. then names the next person to do so until all have gone.

I have my suspicions of two people right now, and the claim will help me to know if I am right or not. So forgive me that I do not reveal what my suspicions are just yet, but it goes back to the breadcrumb search I went on.

Also Smudger, what do you think of Z7?

[Smudger]

if there were two PRs,

thank you

[Smudger]

sorry pressed the submit instead of review, what that previous post of mine should say is Dessew why 2 PRs if you could explain, thank you?

[Dessew]

Sorry guys, I'm having problemswith my inernet connection, I'll post every day, but maybe just once a day.

HC: It's just to have some interactions with one another because Z7 has been complaining. Also, you hadn't really contributed in D3 (you still hasn't), perhaps you should give us your reads. I've already given mine in #336. If you want more, I can tell that right now I can think of two scum teams: Z7&FuDuzn (simply because they're scummy, Z7's play on D2 hardly resembled his play on D1, FuDuzn was avoiding to answer my question about mvm) and Z7&Smudger (because of this obvious scum thing, Smudger isn't everyone's no. 1 lynch-target because he would be too obvious to be scum, and Z7 was the first one to point it out, way before the lynch of notscience. All the flips except mvm's points to Smudger, it's too obvious, indeed, but maybe too too obvious, if you understand what I mean). However, these reads aren't solid enough, they're just something to begin with.

Smudger: I'm saying, if there WERE two PRs, after a massclaim we would have a confirmed townie (the one who don't have a cc). I'm not speculating now about the PRs, and you shouln't, either, it has any sense only we do a massclaim and everybody is here, and Z7 is V/LA until Monday. Your searching for breadcrumbs is probably useful otoh, tell us on Monday what you have.

[Smudger]

Hmm so you do not feel a popcorn claim is the way to go, and your above post has now firmed things in my mind. I think I see what is happening here and why wait until Monday?

[Dessew]

Popcorn might be the way to go, but now one of us is on V/LA, and it is complicated for me to post. I don't want scum to be able to think a lot about his claim. So please don't post any of your PR-reads yet. Maybe we can find scum without massclaim, that would be better, so let's not do it until Monday, if we don't have anything until then, we still have a week to scumhunt with massclaim. This way maybe you (all of you) should post your scumreads, we are 5 on our own, and only two of us posted their reads (if Z7's scummometer counts).

[FuDuzn]

Popcorning works best when everybody is active. The way it is now Z7 would have to go last and that totally defeats the random purpose of popcorning.

But I disagree with Dessew and say there is really no need to wait on any potential reads and breadcrumbs you may have found.

And I think Dessew asked, and thought I was clearer before, but I still lean towards one of(most likely both) Z7 and Smudge as scum and HC my one top town read. Dessew has floated around in the null zone most of the game, partially based on omgus since I don't understand why he keeps bugging me about mvm.

[Smudger]

VLA till Sunday guys,

[Dessew]

False alarm, internet problems are solved (ish)!

I think that if we don't give scum our PR-reads, they can't give us propoer falseclaims, I think it's logical. Anyway, I was thinking, scum can claim in a way that there won't be any confirmed townie even if there're two PRs, I don't tell it to you now, maybe the next day, I don't want to give scum ideas.

About FuDuzn's reads. It could take further analysis (probably tomorrow). HC was scum on his list in #150, as notscience's scumbuddy, but there're different interactions on D2. I'll read it over thoroughly tomorrow.

About mvm. Here, I iso his posts before #150: (I hope I don't have to go over this one more time)

#9: screws up his random vote (he's second on the wagon), makes an awful joke, hearts us
#10: fixes vote, same joke, still hearts us
#17: HC hadn't posted yet
#62: there was a crash, probably will be V/LA, random vote stays, false information on Dubai
#127: V/LA, will post
#145: is sorry for the V/LA (and he really did post)
#146: back from V/LA, brings up things from the beginning of the game, "notscience isn't actually scumhuntingˇ, "FuDuzn hasn't posted enough, let's vote him"
It was town (no. 2 towntell) according to you, while all his very few posts were null or scummy. That's what I'm talking about.

[FuDuzn]

Dessew, yes at the time I was more suspicious of HC and part of that was tied to mysuspicions of notscience. As Day 2 progressed before the quick hammer I was seeing what I thought was strong town vibes from HC(also strong scum vibes from notscience which I guess influenced my town read). I still believe that all things considered HC is the towniest.

And I will make it simple, there was heat on mvm simply for lurking. It is not a n alignment tell and since there was a call for his lynch I saw it as scum motivated, therefore mvm is town. It did start to change after he came back, but I still wasn't comfortable lynching him.

[FuDuzn]

When is the last time HC posted?

I don't want this to drag even with two people on vla. I know we can't popcorn, but a quick question. If you were forced to vote someone right at this second, who would it be? For me it would be Z7.

Pre Edit: Okay HC posted yesterday

[Dessew]

At last, a proper answer to my question!

I've reread from #150, I remembered that Fu and HC had more interaction, but it's almost nothing. You should post your reads more frequently, #369 is the first post in which FuDuzn says that HC is town (so all your "still"s in his last posts are meaningless). There's maybe one interesting thing, or two:
1. Smudger thought that notscience was the scumbuddy of HC. He initially found HC scummy, notscience was scummy because HC was. In #305 he don't think that HC is scum for sure, but still want to lynch nots. What? His hammer makes less and less sense.
2. HC's vote was pretty much the same as Smudger's (see: #306)

HC, okay accepted observation and therefore a slight shift in my thinking, but it could be a bus. let us see shall we.

notscience if you are going to claim or give anything in reply that would stop a hammer then please post.

I respect that Smudger, your post 300 caught me off guard in a good way. You are less scummy after that, and my attention is much more on notscience now.

FuDuzn: please post your reads with arguments instead of posting only whom you want to lynch.

[HopefullyCynical]

"If you were forced to vote someone right at this second, who would it be? For me it would be Z7." -FuDuzn

I agree at the moment. A lot of townies thought Z was/is pretty sketchy.

Here are my reads at the moment.

I can't trust anybody. I'm not trying to say that to just dodge your question, I think we have to treat every interaction as if it could cost us the game.

I don't know about Smudger. I can certainly see it being "too obvious" to vote for him. But a lot of signs also point to him being scum. If we get duped by Smudger after what happened on D2...that would be incredibly embarrassing, haha. FuDuzn brings up a great point of noting that there is no reason why Smudger shouldn't share his findings/thoughts with us. The game depends on this decision, and it's pretty scummy to withhold information that could potentially help us.

I don't really know about you either. You have been rather quiet this game, and have only really started contributing recently. I think you are town though.

I do however, disagree that FuDuzn and Z7 are the scum team. Now they could be brilliant, but there is no reason why FuDuzn would suggest that we target Z7 IF FuDuzn and Z7 are the scum team. The scum team has the opportunity to win the game right now with this lynch, attempting to gain trust by selling off one of their own has almost no benefits to it.

At the moment, I think the potential scum teams are Smudger/Z7, FuDuzn/Smudger, Smudger being in both of my theoretical teams.

[HopefullyCynical]

Also, I just realized that when I asked Smudger's thoughts specifically on Z7 he didn't answer. See post 360.

FuDuzn, I'd really like your to hear your reads, besides Z7. And what specifically made you think I was more town? Although we have a considerably small pool of players left, for me to go from being one of your scum reads to the most town now is quite a change.

[Dessew]

I'm saying that Smudger shouldn't post his PR findings, so when it's time to massclaim, scum's gonna have an inconvenient time. He should post his scumreads, though. FuDuzn could be bussing Z7, it's unlikely at the moment that you or Smudger would vote him, so it's quite safe, too.