NY 165: A Large Normal (Game Over!)

[Rift Adrift]

hey orcinus. have I mentioned that you are kinda scaring me?

[Serene]

hey orcinus. have I mentioned that you are kinda scaring me?

POST FAILURE

BFENIX VOTE STATUS: UNRESOLVED
DISTRACTION: DETECTED
OPERATION EAT RIFT ADRIFT CHILDREN: LAUNCHED

[Rift Adrift]

shut up.

I have stuff to do before L-1.

[Shadi1337]

What's going on? Oh just Serene spamming again, cya tomorrow.

[Rift Adrift]

What's going on? Oh just Serene spamming again, cya tomorrow.

This is getting old. Really old.

[BulbaFenix]

ok. how about games more representative of town-you than the games syr played with you?

Going to give you a few based on certain reasons:

Amurika Mafia - Part of me wants to say that this isn't representative and that I've grown, but it keeps coming up, so the game is still an integral part of my meta.

True Love - Was Lovers with Bo. Might give you an idea what I'd look like in a hydra.

Newbie 1349 - I'm town. Fenix is scum.

Also, I'm not sure how much you've read Voided yourself Ffery. And I'm not sure what Syry took away, since he was scum. There are some representative plays in there that might help, and while it wouldn't work well with only Jungle Republic to compare it to, hopefully with these other games, you can get a better feel for my town play.

-Bulba

[Serene]

Shadi is scum anyway, he's playing to his wincon, we can't complain - we can only lynch him.

[Serene]

Come on Rift Adrift, vote him and make him claim before he has time to make a good fakeclaim.

[BulbaFenix]

I thought they were already voting us?

@Mod: Can we have a vote count?

-Bulba

[Rift Adrift]

I think it was yesterday I unvoted.

speedreading.

[Serene]

Jesus. Giving the scum 5 million years to fabricate their fakeclaim.

That was very anti-town of you Rift Adrift!

[orcinus_theoriginal]

re AtE: Holy shit someone is playing against serene and getting pissed they must be scum
re me: lol sorry but you saw how useless I was in MoL this should not be coming as a surprise
re Bulba: Here are the posts that bugged me a little. And when I say bug, I mean it seemed not genuine

[orcinus_theoriginal]

It's true that Fenix is not as independent as I'd like and acts more like a subordinate than an equal in the hydra. It's something that we're working on. However, I do not like that your first action when confronting us is to attack the

weak link.

I would not want to hydra with you

Ever

Eh. I might get yelled at for it later. As I said, I'm trying to get him to play a more proactive role. Regardless, ProHawk's intent was to identify and attack weakness (The "just wait until daddy gets home" comment), which is more in line with scum intent. Do you agree or disagree with this?

-Bulba

stuff like this

calling his partner a weak link

that seemed really fucking off to me

because i personally would never publicly put down my partner like that

so i'm thinking that scum theater is more likely than otherwise

that's the only thing i am seeing though

i would prefer stevie right now

[Rift Adrift]

re AtE: Holy shit someone is playing against serene and getting pissed they must be scum
re me: lol sorry but you saw how useless I was in MoL this should not be coming as a surprise
re Bulba: Here are the posts that bugged me a little. And when I say bug, I mean it seemed not genuine

The AtE I'm concerned about was directed at me, not Serene.

MoL is the main reason I"m not climbing the walls screaming "orcinus scummmmm" right this very moment.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

do you get annoyed when people drive wagons on you

now put yourself in bulba's shoes

would you get annoyed if a mad and nonsensical dog like serene drove a wagon on you

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I mean, if you really want me to sheep you on bulba i'm cool with that because i think you're town and i really respect your reads and bulba is probably going to be lynched at one point or another at this rate but i am making my stance on the matter heard

[Serene]

SOMEONE put him at L-1

He's probably got a mile-long fakeclaim and we won't be able to tell the difference because we've given him so much time to think about it.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

SOMEONE put him at L-1

He's probably got a mile-long fakeclaim and we won't be able to tell the difference because we've given him so much time to think about it.

are you fucking high

this is not a flavor game

[Cephrir]

I am fully capable of rebutting the other wall (or I would be if it weren't based on ignoring context and points I'd already made) but I'm tired so I'll respond to the short version for now.

Cephrir case:

1.) He's playing it extremely safe when it comes to taking stances. Save for a few reads on the fringes, he's refusing to take a stance on the actions or alignment of the players in this game. Seriously, is what Ank or Brian doing town, scummy, null? Give us something! Not just, "silly" or "it could be viewed as such" or "I see your point". All of this is extremely weak, as if he doesn't want to offend anybody. And if you disagree, why mention that you see that point anyway? Because by disagreeing, you obviously don't! All he's doing by saying stuff like that is keeping his options open for later on.

I am fully capable of providing a reads list and have an opinion on ever player in the game right now, even if it's null. I was leaning town on Ank until the claim, which made me less sure. Brian is null for me off the top of my head. I may respond to particular points in the way you describe but that doesn't mean I don't have opinions. I'm not the type of player to shout all my reads to the heavenes constantly so that no one forgets any of them- I make it clear when I have a strong read one way or the other, though, and will step up to defend those reads. The only really strong reads I've had thus far are orci (town), Zdenek (town), you (scum), thirdkoopa (scum, pre-hammer fiasco). I'm close to adding RA and Crabd to the town list and had Letters/Bro/Shadi as stronger scum reads than I currently do at points in the past. If you think it's scummy that I haven't been offending anyone or taking a lot of strong stances, you have not done even a half second of meta on me.

2.) When he does follow through on the line of thought that he left open, he still doesn't push it hard. Look at his stance on our wagon. He says, "Well, it can obviously be X, but that is a good point. Bulba should be lynched.", while not voting or pushing our wagon at all. Later, when Orcinus and BRO start taking apart the logic that was driving the wagon, Cephrir immediately backpedals and said "I had a momentary lapse. Bulba is town.", again siding with whoever was in charge of the momentum. Again, I want to remind you he did all this WHILE NEVER VOTING, in other words, he still avoided taking a definite stance, even when he was backing the wagon. If you want another post where he refused to take a stance and distanced himself from what he said, look here.

I wrote ONE POST where I was starting to rethink my stance on you. I did not say "Bulba should be lynched" at that time, that's just not true. In my very next post, if I recall correctly, it had been pointed out that something was wrong with the argument I was buying into. Therefore, I returned to my original position. I did not vote you in that post because even in that moment I was still scumreading Koopa, Letters and Shadi more strongly.

The post you linked to does not demonstrate me distancing myself from what I said. Openly suggesting vigging the masons was such a ridiculous idea that I thought it was a towntell that someone would suggest it. While we're at it, all I do in that post is say I got a towntell off orci, and you immediately accused me of buddying him. It's obvious that you don't understand how buddying works.

3.) He is not actually contributing, but rather pretending to in order to appear town. Again, his refusing to take stances are examples of this. And even better example is his post #2898, which I have explained in detail why it is bad.

All I can do with this is respond to the linked post again, for the beneift of everyone else. You claim to have explained it detail why it's bad but all you've said about that post is "look Ceph's not contributing he's not contributing look how unhelpful this post is". That is literally the opposite of a detailed explanation, and when I've asked for one (e.g. how this post is any worse in that regard than any arbitrary post) you have had no argument. You have yet to present an argument for how I'm not contributing to this game other than "You're not contributing to this game". It's complete bullshit.

4.) He's buddying up to other players, particularly DOMO.

If arguing with your case is buddying DOMO then sure, I'm buddying him all day and all night.

5.) He's attempting to discredit cases, rather than disprove them. As I've said before, doing so is a major scumtell for me, as the whole purpose of discrediting a case is so you don't have to actually address. This squelches discussion, which is a scumtell.

In what universe is arguing that your case isn't any good because look at all these ways your argument is bad not disproving it? What's even the distinction here? How can I prove anything in a mafia game without a flip? This point might as well be a bunch of random letters, it's a completely meaningless accusation.

6.) Going to condense this into one point instead of multiple: He is tackling this game from a scum mindset, rather than a town one.

I can't argue with blanket statements, I guess people will have to read the walls and decide for themselves on that one......

7.) He's actually being incredibly overt with the fact that he's scum and is toying with the town, daring us to come after him. This can be seen in his hypothetical to DOMO ("If I was buddying you, and I'm not saying that I am, how would that be scummy?"). He's not content with just playing mindgames with town. He wants to openly mock us. And for that, I don't want to just lynch him. I want to crucify him, then set the corpse on fire, all while we dance around the flames, and Kuribo reads him his last rites. After that, I want to mount his head on a pike as a warning to all future arrogant scum.

This point is worse than point 5, if that's even possible. Why in the sweet merciful fuck would I do this? Like anyone who actually reads this paragraph will recognize that it's preposterous, I don't even know why you bothered to write it or thought this would be convincing.

[Serene]

this is not a flavor game

I know that

He still needs a credible fakeclaim like Nero's was an obvious fakeclaim

And he needs to work out his fake night choices

We've literally given him an eternity to perfect it.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

this is not a flavor game

I know that

He still needs a credible fakeclaim like Nero's was an obvious fakeclaim

And he needs to work out his fake night choices

We've literally given him an eternity to perfect it.

is this the head that thinks bulba is town and this wagon was just an experiment

i forget

[orcinus_theoriginal]

if you really want me to sheep you on bulba i'm cool with that

fery.

[Cephrir]

Point 6 is supposed to be referring to your 'popularity contest' argument isn't it?

tldr for the masses on that part of the wallfight. Bulba makes a needlessly inflammatory post towards Stevie, I ask sarcastically if he's trying to turn people against his, and he decides that I'm viewing the game as a popularity contest and am therefore scum

If you want more detail read the wallfight

[Cephrir]

people against him*

[Serene]

Well.

We pretty much totally screw up the effectiveness of CLAIM TIME PRESSURE

We really suck as town we can't get our shit together to get this basic scumhunting skill down.

Having failed miserably at the golden hour of

claim or die

, we should just lynch BFenix. We won't be able to tell the difference between a claim and a botched fakeclaim; we gave him too much time.