Mini 1468: Legends of the Hidden Temple- Game Over!

Majiffy · Post Post #2300 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:46 am

How about you provide an argument for why I'm scum.

qwints · Post Post #2301 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:21 am

Majiff's making more sense than wisdom right now, but I keep going back to the voting patterns. Elyse would have to be scum doing whatever she could to appear townie no matter how inconvenient that was for scum - including being a big part of the NS lynch and fighting the Amrun lynch for a wagon on a target I still think is scum - enomis. I just don't buy that from scum, especially in a nightless where all we need to do is have scum+1 obv-townies alive to win.

Elyse · Post Post #2302 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:48 am

I'm not even going to respond to the stuff that you just say you're right and give no evidence to because this is annoying.

In post 2298, Majiffy wrote:
In post 2297, Elyse wrote: What? How do you get that at all? Wisdom said I was scum with Amrun and I faked what I said to get her to townread me. Should my response be "Yeah, maybe"? NO.
No, your response should be "I'm not scum", not "Oh so I'm scum because x is scum townreading me for y?"

When in this game should my response

ever

be I'm not scum? I'm supposed to give REASONS for why I'm not scum.

In post 2298, Majiffy wrote:
In post 2297, Elyse wrote:Hmmm...considering Amrun was TOWN, doesn't that, I dunno, make sense?
Yes, it makes sense that you're using a defense you used on a townie to defend yourself.
BECAUSE THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT OF TYING YOURSELF TO A TOWNIE.

I'm not using that defense because I'm tying myself to Amrun. I'm using that defense because it's true.

In post 2298, Majiffy wrote:
In post 2297, Elyse wrote: Yes but I'm only asking you one scenario and it directly affects today's lynch. And why didn't you say something like this earlier? Instead, you made it seem like you had a plan for when I flipped town. That's scummy. You didn't play it off like I did.
What's scummy is that you're acting like because I scum read you I have to have teams for every possible scum-you and town-you combination. Because the question you posed could just have easily been followed up with: "{what if y is town?/What if x is town?/What if z is town?}"

No I'm not. Please read what I said and try again. I'm not calling you scummy for that.

In post 2298, Majiffy wrote: By the way; What you responded to there
was
only one scenario. A scenario you didn't have prepared.

What?

In post 2298, Majiffy wrote:
In post 2297, Elyse wrote: Grim never prompted me before that. I would have no problem if he asked me specifically for my scumteam if a scumread flipped town, but he just said "You're scummy for not looking at every option." This case is completely different. I'm not calling you scummy for not considering your scumreads wrong, I'm calling you scummy for not being able to come up with a scumteam for when I flip town.
Why is it scummy that I go after one scum at a time instead of trying to link associative after associative after associative on unflipped players? Because the latter is a highly ineffective strategy.

You're saying it's scummy not to play in the most inefficient, least productive way possible.

That's the kind of strategy that got Amrun lynched. And Amrun was town. My strategy got NS lynched. And yet mine is inefficient and unproductive? In other games, maybe, but not in a nightless mountainous when the only tools besides scumhunting are associative tells.

In post 2298, Majiffy wrote:
In post 2297, Elyse wrote:It's true. Everyone said Amrun didn't make sense with anyone as scum but me. How am I scum for saying that?
Because from your perspective, you aren't scum. Ergo Amrun doesn't make sense with anyone, not anyone (except maybe me I guess lol hehe look how town I am for admitting I might be scum! I'm gonna look soooo town when she flips town!)

I said that because I could see people (you specifically) saying "Amrun DOES makes sense with someone. She makes sense with YOU."

In post 2298, Majiffy wrote:
In post 2297, Elyse wrote:Oh, like confident enough to challenge a team when there wasn't even a consensus reached? You out of ANYONE should know confidence isn't a scumtell. Come on now.
There isn't even a shred of an analogy between those two, I'll accept this as an admission of guilt.

Yes there is. You were so confident that Grim/SC were scum that you challenged them. I was confident in Amrun town.

In post 2298, Majiffy wrote:
In post 2297, Elyse wrote:You missed the QWINTS part.
So why did you include yourself, then?

Oh right, tying.

Because people were accusing me of being in a scumteam with Amrun and qwints. Obviously I would include myself. Tying does not make sense here, or anywhere for that matter.

In post 2298, Majiffy wrote:
In post 2297, Elyse wrote: Wtf is this? First, I'm not tying Amrun and Coug together. I was pointing out where Grim flip flopped on people. Second, even if I was, I'm not linking myself to Coug. This is bullshit.
First, yes you are. By using Coug's flip as an example of reference in regard to Amrun's future flip.
Second, yes you are. If A is like B and B is like C, then A is like C.

I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT MYSELF HERE.

I said Grim was flip-flopping after Coug's lynch and his recent posts. Those are just places in the thread. I'm not linking anything, just merely stating where Grim was flip-flopping. I really don't know where you are digging this up from.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #2303 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:27 pm

If qwints were scum he prolly would have hammered that.

Catching up tomorrow.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #2304 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:28 pm

Mmm well scum with elyse being town. I guess its possible they are both scum.

Grimgroove · Post Post #2305 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:41 pm

In post 2301, qwints wrote:Majiff's making more sense than wisdom right now, but I keep going back to the voting patterns. Elyse would have to be scum doing whatever she could to appear townie no matter how inconvenient that was for scum - including being a big part of the NS lynch and fighting the Amrun lynch for a wagon on a target I still think is scum - enomis. I just don't buy that from scum, especially in a nightless where all we need to do is have scum+1 obv-townies alive to win.

That's the problem. There are no obv-townies in this game.
Is there anyone we all agree on that is most definitely town?

I don't find Majiffy's case on elyse very convincing. He makes it out to be more than it actually is.

Haschel Cedricson · Post Post #2306 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:06 am

The pool of players eligible to be lynched today consists of:

Grimgroove

Elyse
qwints

Here are the current votes:

Elyse (3) - Majiffy, AngryPidgeon, pirate mollie
qwints(3) - Grimgroove, Wisdom, Elyse
Grimgroove(1) - qwints

Not Voting (2) - enomis, Venmar

With 9 players alive, it will take 5 votes to lynch.

Grimgroove · Post Post #2307 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:10 am

A day of silence. So this is what happens when Wisdom goes on V/LA

Kidding aside though, I have the impression this game is stuck.
Could the people not currently on the qwints wagon provide reasons for not being there? (as specific as possible)

Elyse · Post Post #2308 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:31 am

In post 2303, AngryPidgeon wrote:If qwints were scum he prolly would have hammered that.

Catching up tomorrow.

Why? He never showed intent to want to lynch me and if he hammered he would look really bad.

Also, do you

really

think qwints and I are scum together?

qwints · Post Post #2309 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:40 am

Majiffy, both grim and I don't like the case on Elyse. Doesn't that suggest you should reevaluate?

Majiffy · Post Post #2310 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:15 pm

In post 2302, Elyse wrote:When in this game should my response
ever
be I'm not scum? I'm supposed to give REASONS for why I'm not scum.

What you gave wasn't a reason why you're not scum.

In post 2302, Elyse wrote:I'm not using that defense because I'm tying myself to Amrun. I'm using that defense because it's true.

It's a piss-poor defense.

In post 2302, Elyse wrote:No I'm not. Please read what I said and try again. I'm not calling you scummy for that.

Then please restate what you

are

calling me scummy for.

In post 2302, Elyse wrote:What?

NS flipping town.

In post 2302, Elyse wrote:That's the kind of strategy that got Amrun lynched. And Amrun was town. My strategy got NS lynched. And yet mine is inefficient and unproductive? In other games, maybe, but not in a nightless mountainous when the only tools besides scumhunting are associative tells.

So you lynched NS on associatives on unflipped players? Weird. That's not why I voted him. But whatever floats your boat.

In post 2302, Elyse wrote:I said that because I could see people (you specifically) saying "Amrun DOES makes sense with someone. She makes sense with YOU."

Me specifically? Are you fucking retarded? Show me where you even got an inkling of me considering saying that whatsoever.

In post 2302, Elyse wrote:Yes there is. You were so confident that Grim/SC were scum that you challenged them. I was confident in Amrun town.

I had them both as scum reads and so decided it was a good place to challenge. It had nothing to do with confidence. And you're skewing the scenarios, in general. I'll elaborate more when I have time.

In post 2302, Elyse wrote: I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT MYSELF HERE.

If you (A) tie yourself to another player (B) in a post, and then
Tie that player (B) to another player (C) [THIS POST!]

You have reached conclusion
A = C.

Fucking christ learn logic.

---

In post 2307, Grimgroove wrote: Could the people not currently on the qwints wagon provide reasons for not being there? (as specific as possible)

Because Qwints looks town and Elyse looks scum.

In post 2309, qwints wrote:Majiffy, both grim and I don't like the case on Elyse. Doesn't that suggest you should reevaluate?

No, because Grim is possible scum and you're possible dumb.

Venmar · Post Post #2311 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:37 pm

I don't Elyse is scum either upon a reread Majiffy

Don't know if I think anyone else is scum in this lynch pool, Qwints looks quite town imo. Maybe Grim but idk, i'll think it over a bit more.

Grimgroove · Post Post #2312 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:20 pm

Both enomis and pirate_mollie are up for a prod I reckon.

The game has severely slowed down. Majiffy trying to get something going despite this, screams Majiffy being town to me.

Grimgroove · Post Post #2313 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:24 pm

In post 2309, qwints wrote:Majiffy, both grim and I don't like the case on Elyse. Doesn't that suggest you should reevaluate?

You are basically saying the both of us are not of the same alignment and using our converging views on a certain matter as an argument that these views must be valuable, given our different alignment.
In order to use this as a factual argument in the way you just did, you truly have to take it for granted we are not from the same alignment. This is more than you simply suspecting me of being scum. This is you KNOWING I don't belong to your alignment. The only way you'd know we're not of the same alignment is when you're scum.

Majiffy · Post Post #2314 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:33 pm

Venmar trust me on this one, we need an Elyse lynch.

Lynch wiil not go wrong.

Majiffy · Post Post #2315 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:34 pm

In post 2313, Grimgroove wrote:
In post 2309, qwints wrote:Majiffy, both grim and I don't like the case on Elyse. Doesn't that suggest you should reevaluate?
This is you KNOWING I don't belong to your alignment.

wut

Grimgroove · Post Post #2316 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:37 pm

Why else would he think us having the same view on something actually means something?

Wisdom · Post Post #2317 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:33 pm

He merely stated that two people don't agree with the case. But I find it weird why he didn't include me, since I also find it bullshit.

Grimgroove · Post Post #2318 (ISO) » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:04 am

The way he phrased it makes it very clear that the combination of him AND me is somehow particular.

qwints · Post Post #2319 (ISO) » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:35 am

In post 2318, Grimgroove wrote:The way he phrased it makes it very clear that the combination of him AND me is somehow particular.

It's important because we're the two alternatives to Elyse. Both of us have a basic survival incentive to believe a case against her because, right now, we have to choose between her, each other and ourselves. We both had the opportunity to hammer. That means that, from my perspective, I thought the odds of grim getting lynched + grim being scum were higher than the odds of elyse being scum*. Same thing for grim if grim were town. That means majiffy should be confident that at least one townie isn't buying his case despite having a strong incentive to believe it.

*I obviously would have hammered elyse if I was indifferent between elyse and grimm, but it goes further than that. Because there is some risk of me being lynched today, I have a lower burden to lynch someone else because I know that I'm town and I'm an alternative. If there was no chance of lynching grimm, I would vote elyse instantly since, for me, the odds of her being scum are automatically higher than the odds of me being scum. Because I think 1) Elyse is most likely town; 2) grim is most likely scum; and 3) I can persuade town to lynch grimm correctly, I'm willing to risk my mislynch.

Grimgroove · Post Post #2320 (ISO) » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:48 am

In post 2319, qwints wrote:Because I think 1) Elyse is most likely town; 2) grim is most likely scum; and 3) I can persuade town to lynch grimm correctly, I'm willing to risk my mislynch.

Just replace the word Grim with the word qwints, and this actually perfectly describes my position.

Grimgroove · Post Post #2321 (ISO) » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:58 am

Only, I haven't really seen you try to persuade town that I'm scum. So point 3 doesn't really hold for you.

Haschel Cedricson · Post Post #2322 (ISO) » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:25 am

enomis and pirate mollie have been prodded.

Majiffy · Post Post #2323 (ISO) » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:32 am

Feel like qwints just overthought that response far more than necessary.

In post 2317, Wisdom wrote:But I find it weird why he didn't include me, since I also find it bullshit.

Tbf you're

also

bullshit though.

Elyse · Post Post #2324 (ISO) » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:29 am

Damn it why can't enomis be in this lynchpool.

He fits with Grim/qwints/enomis and Majiffy/Mollie/enomis.

Grim and qwints have seemed more town the last few posts. Majiffy's case on me is bad and so is his AtE. Mollie has disappeared, along with my townread on her.

Wisdom is obvtown and AP/Venmar are most likely town.