Newbie 1393 Game Over

[Smudger]

I think the either to start would be good as they seem either together or separately feature in peoples suspicions, the point is once we start there is no posting until everyone has claimed. so if Z7 does not come back soon, even though he said he would yesterday then we should start.

[Smudger]

I think

that Z7 or Fuduzn

to start would be good as they seem either together or separately feature in peoples suspicions, the point is once we start there is no posting until everyone has claimed. so if Z7 does not come back soon, even though he said he would yesterday then we should start with FuDuzn.

Fixed

[Z7-852]

I agree that popcorn claim is the best action right now, but in this situation where there haven't been night actions that matter it won't help us too much. But it's the best we can do in this bad situation. Also I believe vanilla town should start this so the real PR would claim after scums.

Currently HopefyllyCynical is my strongest town read. If he's a scum he really deserves his win. Everyone else could be scum but somehow I'am leaning most heavily toward Smudger. I haven't seen any interaction (or lack of interaction) that would indicate any clear possible scum team so I can't guess about it.

Smudgers withholding information would be wise if he is a real power role and have some solid information such as cop findings about scum. But I will start the mass claiming circle.

I'am vanilla town. FuDuzn should go next.

[FuDuzn]

I am also vanilla town.

Smudge next.

[Smudger]

I am a Vanilla Town 1 shot bullet Proof

Dessew next

[Dessew]

I'm the bulletproof.

HC next.

[Smudger]

HC please claim.

[HopefullyCynical]

I'm a Town Jailkeeper.

[Smudger]

## vote Dessew

Basically this is now a case of who is telling the truth and who to believe. I will make one statement on this situation and will then take questions.

I proposed the popcorn claim as I have nothing to hide and was adamant that it would help identify scum. I know for a fact that there is no tracker in this game as I could find no breadcrumbs that would indicate who the tracker is. So I was sure that we had column A, Bullet Proof, Town Jail Keeper and Role Blocker. At no time during the discussion regarding a popcorn claim does Dessew make any similar statement, in fact you will recall he insisted that I did not reveal anymore detail. In light of what has happened during the claims ask yourselves why that might be the case? In my mind it is that as scum he had a good idea what column or row was operating but did not know the town roles, and could only guess. My claiming before him allowed him to fake his claim.

Now I also take you back to when FuDuzn mentioned Cop and I questioned him on it, at the time after his answer I stopped pursuing it as I had a thought regarding this. look at the matrix where does Role Blocker and Cop sit? Role blocker sits in column A row 2, as does Cop. Scum would be thinking the possible roles they had to contend with were Cop, Doc or Jailer, depending on the row or column.

Now I am the Bullet proof VT, and that role sits in column A row 3, so I know as town I should go look for evidence (breadcrumbs) of a tracker or jail keeper. I saw none, which lead me to believe that HC held one of those roles. Primarily because he is new and keeps asking questions, my thought process was that he probably does not understand the practice of breadcrumbing.

I will also now direct you to Fuduzn and Dessews interaction and in particular the lead up to the popcorn claim and in particular 399 from Dessew, he pushes for FuDuzn to go first. FuDuzn went second and asked me to go next, probably knowing I would pick Dessew as he was, until his fake claim, my strongest Town read. So yes I am saying that the scum team is Dessew and Fuduzn, and their strategy worked particularly well for them.

It was their intention to ensure I went before Dessew, based on my read of him and the fact he has played the game in a particular "town" way. Thus regardless of what role I claimed they would counter with a fake claim from Dessew. I think though they were surprised when I said bullet proof town, which I might add is still current as no one has tried to kill me yet.

That is my statement and I will now take questions.

I am Vanilla Town with one shot bullet proof

[Smudger]

@ HC could you please give us your night actions and why?

[Z7-852]

I have to agree with Smudger right now. There isn't really any holes in his theory if his claim is genuine and right now I don't see any reason to doubt this. We have to wait to hear from Dessew but right now I'am also leaning toward him.

[FuDuzn]

Why are you implicating me here Smudge? Dessew wanted me or Z7 to go first, why not mention Z7? And I chose you after me since in popcorning you choose who your biggest scumread is, basically everything you are saying can be applied to Z7 as well(yes I am saying Z7 is scum with whovever is lying). I think you definitely thought this out, but this is everything scum can do to try to find pr's as well(including searching for breadcrumbs, which is something I avoid doing as a pr for this very reason).

I want to hear from Dessew.

[Dessew]

VOTE: Smudger

I know for a fact that there is no tracker in this game as I could find no breadcrumbs that would indicate who the tracker is. So I was sure that we had column A, Bullet Proof, Town Jail Keeper and Role Blocker.

Now I also take you back to when FuDuzn mentioned Cop and I questioned him on it, at the time after his answer I stopped pursuing it as I had a thought regarding this. look at the matrix where does Role Blocker and Cop sit? Role blocker sits in column A row 2, as does Cop. Scum would be thinking the possible roles they had to contend with were Cop, Doc or Jailer, depending on the row or column.

Now I am the Bullet proof VT, and that role sits in column A row 3, so I know as town I should go look for evidence (breadcrumbs) of a tracker or jail keeper. I saw none, which lead me to believe that HC held one of those roles. Primarily because he is new and keeps asking questions, my thought process was that he probably does not understand the practice of breadcrumbing.

So you knew that there were a jk because there were no tracker-breadcrumbs and that HC was jk because there were no jk-breadcrumbs...

I will also now direct you to Fuduzn and Dessews interaction and in particular the lead up to the popcorn claim and in particular 399 from Dessew, he pushes for FuDuzn to go first. FuDuzn went second and asked me to go next, probably knowing I would pick Dessew as he was, until his fake claim, my strongest Town read. So yes I am saying that the scum team is Dessew and Fuduzn, and their strategy worked particularly well for them.

It was their intention to ensure I went before Dessew, based on my read of him and the fact he has played the game in a particular "town" way. Thus regardless of what role I claimed they would counter with a fake claim from Dessew. I think though they were surprised when I said bullet proof town, which I might add is still current as no one has tried to kill me yet.

Usually the scummy players go first, so they cannot falseclaim efficiently. (according to wiki and common sense)

So you all know that one of Smudger and me is scum, just like either FuDuzn or Z7 is, too. (Or Smudger and I are scum, and there's only one PR, but that'd be ridiculous.) Either way, HC is town (toldya.) The order Smudger and I claimed doesn't really matter imo, if someone knew that there was at least 50% chance of having BP/JK (and scum did), claiming bulletproof is rather safe, you don't have to make up night actions or explain yourself much.

PEDIT: Fu: I suggested you to claim first in #399.

[Smudger]

So you knew that there were a jk because there were no tracker-breadcrumbs and that HC was jk because there were no jk-breadcrumbs...

I made a reasonably informed guess based on what I know of the game and, as stated, I knew my role and therefore had a good idea of what column or row we were using, as I could not find any breadcrumbs of a tracker I surmised that we probably had a JK in operation. This was furthered strengthened by the fact that HC was always asking questions about game mechanics etc and I believed that he has no idea about what breadcrumbing is. So as part of my thought process it made sense to me that HC was the other town PR, and more than likely the Jail keeper, as had, he been the tracker I feel even he would have said something in thread.

HC do you understand what breadcrumbing is, if you don't or have only just looked it up after it was mentioned in post please say so? If you do could you explain where any of your breadcrumbs are?

[Smudger]

Dessew please explain why you made no mention of your thoughts, or possible thoughts regarding set usp when I first began to talk about popcorn claims and the fact I was 99% sure of what set up we were using?

[Dessew]

/sigh
I've already explained it over and over again.

I don't want scum to be able to think a lot about his claim.

I think that if we don't give scum our PR-reads, they can't give us propoer falseclaims, I think it's logical.

I'm saying that Smudger shouldn't post his PR findings, so when it's time to massclaim, scum's gonna have an inconvenient time.

About the PRs: the more scum knows about them, the better falseclaim they can give us.

If somebody told something noteworthy about PRs before the massclaim, that would help scum (it's pretty simple imho).

So you're basically telling us that the fairy wispered you that we've got a jk.
I don't get why it is important if HC knows what breadcrumbs are. He's the jk, anyway.
I thought you would ask me something I hadn't explained, like #399 (btw, FuDuzn seemed to be trying to delay the massclaim in #398.)

[Smudger]

Why are you implicating me here Smudge? Dessew wanted me or Z7 to go first, why not mention Z7? And I chose you after me since in popcorning you choose who your biggest scumread is, basically everything you are saying can be applied to Z7 as well(yes I am saying Z7 is scum with whovever is lying). I think you definitely thought this out, but this is everything scum can do to try to find pr's as well(including searching for breadcrumbs, which is something I avoid doing as a pr for this very reason).

I want to hear from Dessew.

because I believe you are Dessew's scum buddy that is why.

[Smudger]

So you're basically telling us that the fairy wispered you that we've got a jk.
I don't get why it is important if HC knows what breadcrumbs are. He's the jk, anyway.
I thought you would ask me something I hadn't explained, like #399 (btw, FuDuzn seemed to be trying to delay the massclaim in #398.)

its called reasoning based on information available at the time and what you can see or not see. It is important that HC confirms or denies knowledge of bread crumbing as it establishes part of my theory, a theory which is correct.

[Smudger]

and Dessew you missed my question entirely, well dodged, my question is very clear to me

Dessew please explain why you made

no mention of your thoughts, or possible thoughts regarding set usp

when I first began to talk about popcorn claims and the fact I was 99% sure of what set up we were using?

usp = ups

all you have done is quote some rather wishy washy posts, that actually make no reference to setups. As the bullet proof VT I was sure of where we were.

Hypothetically

had I been in your position and someone had started to say the things I was saying I would have not sat there quietly but would have pushed them on it to establish if what I would have been thinking, and was in fact thinking, at that time matched the other persons line of thought. The fact again that HC was not aware of popcorn claims and did not ask relevant questions, strengthened my view that the other town PR was with HC.

Anyway the fact of the matter is Dessew that you asked me to be quite, which now in hindsight makes sense as I know you are scum.

[Dessew]

My quotes are about how we shouldn't have discussed PRs before the massclaim, I did answer your question, schluss.

About HC: okay,then let's imagine that he says no, he didn't make any breadcrumbs. Hurray, you were right. Now, let's imagine that he answers yes, he made breadcrumbs and he shows us them. Then what, he's the jk, anyway. He's our confirmed townie (tonw jailkeeper), that's all we have in both ways. I get, how you learned that HC was a PR, but you still haven't explained how could you possibly have known that he was JK.

[Smudger]

PRs are part of the set up. You have missed the point again, or more aptly are evading it. If you are the VT bullet proof, which you are not, why did you not see the possible set ups and allude to the fact you Had an idea about what set up we are in. As for known if there was a jailkeeper, it was an educated guess based on information at hand. As I have already stated. If you are implying that I had known because I am not town then that is complete rubbish, The only power role that Mafia have is role blocker that role is a nlocking tole not an investigative rolle, So is it you or FuDuzn?

As for HC it would be good to know who he jailed and why, and also if he knew about breadcrumb, all well and good if he did and can show us his. But to be honest it is not important, it's his opinion and vote that matters so I am not going to push him on it, if he wishes to ask questions I welcome them and will answer. I am not going to put any more pressure on him from this point forward.

[Smudger]

Am on my phone so appogies for bad spelling above

[Dessew]

Then what question am I answering? You asked me about why I didn't want to speculate about PRs, I answered it (a lot of times), what else do you want to know? Actually, you are the one who didn't elaborate yet what the difference is between newbie JKs and newbie trackers.

HC do you understand what breadcrumbing is, if you don't or have only just looked it up after it was mentioned in post please say so? If you do could you explain where any of your breadcrumbs are?

its called reasoning based on information available at the time and what you can see or not see. It is important that HC confirms or denies knowledge of bread crumbing as it establishes part of my theory, a theory which is correct.

As for HC it would be good to know who he jailed and why, and also if he knew about breadcrumb, all well and good if he did and can show us his. But to be honest it is not important, it's his opinion and vote that matters so I am not going to push him on it, if he wishes to ask questions I welcome them and will answer. I am not going to put any more pressure on him from this point forward.

What happened to your "reasoning"?

I have had enough of your nonsensical crap

VOTE: notscience

me too

[Smudger]

Dessew is that really best you can do in all honesty, that smacks of desperation in my mind. I am attempting to be civil about the fact that tou are a liar and you take a cheap shot like that? i have said all I want to say know on tjis subject let us allow the other players time to make up their minds and vote, it comes down to you or I to be lynched to decide this game. If you are lynched then town win, if I am lynched then scum win. I expect FuDuzn to vote for me pretty soon which then leaves it up to HC and Z7 to decide who they will believe, you or I.

If however one of those two were to vote for me before FuDuzn then I expect him to hammer me for the scum win. You know I am right, you know you are a Liar, I know this has been a great game, good luck.

[FuDuzn]

I am not going to vote yet for the very reason you just stated Smudge, I don't want to choose wrong and scum swoop in for the win. I also will not quick hammer as soon as someone as soon as someone is at L-1(obviously). And tbh I am not sure where to go with my vote when it comes down to it. Smudge you are bringing up good points about knowing the setup and knowing what to do in case there are claims, but this is something scum would do as well in regards to fake claiming. Basically that whole argument doesn nothing for me in regards to proving you are town and proving Dessew is scum. On the othe hand, Desse seems like the type who would cover all his bases as a town pr so he could do the very thing youh are doing, and it seems like he is really trying to discredit you. Problem is that also isn't alignment indictive, he could just as easily be frustated townie trying to convince us idiots or a lying scum using snottiness as a weapon.

Basically, neither of you are convincing me either way right now.