Newbie 1382 (Game Over)

[notscience]

Hi Kuribo

[kuribo]

Suuuuuuup

[Mr. Flay]

Is a scum self-vote common in Newbie endgame situations?

Not common, but not unheard of when you're just flat stuck. I even self-NK'ed myself in some older games (guaranteed Cop+Doc) when the math just was impossible against me. I respect Jerry's decision to end it early, as I probably would have voted him in the next 24h or so anyway.

Like I said, scum played a good game here. Town gave them plenty of opportunities to 'scumhunt', but more importantly they capitalized on them. Without the blocked kills we'd have been in a VERY ugly place D4. My reads were all over the place... and until the end Jerry was nowhere on them. You're kinda scary.

I said it earlier, of course, but lack of content/scumhunting and getting emotionally wound up hurt Town. I can be more specific if anyone wants...

(I had a kind of note to myself to comment on someone post-game, but now I can't recall it)

[Mr. Flay]

Anyway, Condorcet sez:

• notquitethere
  
• JerryArr
  
• Mr. Flay
  
• rmpeacoc
  
• Kattaze
  
• Xiao Long

nqt, claim in your next post, including any actions.

Holy shit, I just realized scum were the top two vote winners in our little Condorcet survey.

[notscience]

xd

nj Flay, I was your biggest fan in the dead QT xd

[pitoli]

Kiss up.

[notscience]

Yup.

[Kattaze]

I was his worst enemy in the game

[Mr. Flay]

Nah, you were just weirdly obstinate (I know, right, in this game??). If you hadn't ended up being confirmed by your claim/actions there's a strong possibility I would have lynched you. You were TOO firm in your reads, and too wrong too often (just read back over your iso if you don't know what I mean).

[notquitethere]

This game was a very good example of a very good doctor night-game saving an otherwise poor town early to mid game.

[Mr. Flay]

Agreed (and I include myself in that, since I let Jerry buddy me until the last Day). It's always been a weak point (there's some old game where MoS I think tricked me into unvoting his scumbuddy by yelling about mislynch).

[kuribo]

Flay I didn't even know you still played

You've always been one of my favorite old schoolers

[Mr. Flay]

Also, I meant to post this during the game but forgot I had to save it to draft for some reason...

Spoiler: Condorcet (showing my work)

http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~legrand/rbvote/calc.html

Code: Select all

nqt>Jerry>rmp>Xiao=Katt>Flay
nqt>rmp>Flay>Katt>Xiao>Jerry
nqt>Jerry=Flay>rmp>Xiao>Katt
Flay>Jerry>Katt>Xiao>rmp>nqt
Jerry>Flay=nqt>Xiao>Katt>rmp
nqt=rmp>Jerry>Flay>Katt>Xiao

Dodgson's method is what I used, because it avoids circular ambiguity and resulted in no ties (unlike Copeland's or Simpson, which are otherwise simpler to understand). Borda Count, which many of the others are based on, is not rigorous enough to avoid tactical manipulation.

[kuribo]

Flay, DGB, Yos, MoS, TSQ, ABR

Those were the folks I looked up to when I was a young scummer. A better IC than Flay could not be possible.

[Mr. Flay]

Flay I didn't even know you still played

You've always been one of my favorite old schoolers

This was my first game since I decided to start playing again. It's working out pretty well so far.

Your list is fun because two of them are instalynch material for me.

[pitoli]

Yep, Flay, thought you were a great IC. The most pleasant I've bad thus far~

[kuribo]

Well ABR isn't around anymore right? And I know TSQ very rarely plays now. I still play with DGB every chance i get. TSQ, Yos, and DGB were all in Weather Mafia II last year with me, though two of them were scum. That game had such a fantastic player list, it was like the All Star game of Mafia. Players from just about every generation of the site, so many different play styles.

One scum team was Reckoner, Fate, and TSQ. The other was BBMolla, katsuki, and DGB. I'm still astounded we won that haha

[Xiao Long]

This game was a very good example of a very good doctor night-game saving an otherwise poor town early to mid game.

Agreed (and I include myself in that, since I let Jerry buddy me until the last Day). It's always been a weak point (there's some old game where MoS I think tricked me into unvoting his scumbuddy by yelling about mislynch).

Actually, looking back, I don't think town was that poor. I think Rmp sort of had some pretty negative moments on D1 and I, admittedly, focused on that way too long.
For the most part, though, Jon/Notscience, FTP/Kattaze, Flay and Pitoli were pretty good.

[Mr. Flay]

Well, like I said earlier, we weren't really much worse than any other Newbie Game Town. But it doesn't take many poor plays to get to three mislynches...

[Xiao Long]

Mislynches are inevitable in newbie games, it seems, so I can't really fault our town for mislynches. I think the worst play we had was not lynching Lortaku D1.

[pitoli]

Derp.

[notscience]

Mislynches are inevitable in newbie games, it seems, so I can't really fault our town for mislynches. I think the worst play we had was not lynching Lortaku D1.

I've played as scum in a town perfect win ;-;

[Xiao Long]

Haha, well, mislynches are inevitable in MOST newbie games, lol.

[JerryArr]

Overall, I think the town was plagued by inactivity more than bad play. It seemed like we were policy lynching lortaku Day 1 and 2 (until Mutley came in), and then really started to hit their stride Day 3. Not to say bad about Jon's play, but notscience helped out, turning the game around during his short time in the game.

Otherwise, there were some things I found really helped.

Motivation

Flay mentioning finding out possible motivations for people's posts in 681 (and elsewhere, but that one stuck out to me) was kind of an eye-opener. Is player X trying to help Town win or help Mafia win here? If they're helping Town, could there be an ulterior motive?

Other Newbie Games

What I did was read completed Newbie Games, then read whatever the IC's/SE's/etc. had to say about the game, especially if they have a lot of experience, then keep that in mind (and in a notepad) as I read what they've posted.

Trying Not to WIFOM

It's hard because you're still trying to find motivations, but I didn't want to go "Well, they'd do this rather than that" so much.

Anyway, I had a lot of fun, even though there was a bit more stress than I had anticipated. Flay, you were a great IC, especially having to wrangle the site at the same time. Zaicon was a quality mod, as well, and I think the most everyone played well.

[Kattaze]

Nah, you were just weirdly obstinate (I know, right, in this game??). If you hadn't ended up being confirmed by your claim/actions there's a strong possibility I would have lynched you. You were TOO firm in your reads, and too wrong too often (just read back over your iso if you don't know what I mean).

Yeh I got way too hung up on you and jon/notscience being scum. This post of jon's didn't help either. It looked to me like a noob scum tell of jon trying to protect his scumbuddy. Anyway, I'll try to be more circumspect about my reads in future games.