Newbie 1393 Game Over

[Smudger]

Then.we wait. I have made my statement and answered all questions. Dessew has not provided an answer to my question by evasion , and as FuDuzn has stated, attempted to discredit me. There are 3 of you to vote it is up to you now. There is nothing more I can say IMO other than continue to answer questions I will not be drawn into mudslinging though as that will not help my two remaining town team mates make their own decision.

[Nexus]

Votecount 3.2:

Dessew (1) -

Smudger,

Smudger (1) -

Dessew,

Not Voting (3)-

HopefullyCynical, Z7-852, FuDuzn

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Deadline is at 1pm BST on the 28th July 2013 (3 days)

[Dessew]

Where did I lie? And you disdredit yourself, you are the one who isn't answering the questions: what more would a newbie tracker do than a newbie jk? All you're doing is asking the same alredy answered question over again.

If however one of those two were to vote for me before FuDuzn then I expect him to hammer me for the scum win.

So you think that Fu is my scumbuddy (as you've stated earlier) thus (Smudger's thinking really really hard) he'll hammer you if he can. Bravo, now you seem reasonable. Not.

There are 3 of you to vote it is up to you now.

Do you genuinely think they don't know?
You just went kamikaze (again). Since you knew that there's either jk/bp or cop/doctor, tracker would have been the safest claim for you (not explaining, it's obvious). Maybe you figured out what setup we're playing, but I think it's more likely that you wanted us to have a direct cc and you risked a bit (or thought that with cop/doctor setup you've already lost so you took your chance).

blablablablablablaDessewisscumblablablablablablaaskinganalreadyansweredquestionblablablablablawritingsomethingobviousblablablablabla

[HopefullyCynical]

I did not know what breadcrumbing is before this. I did not leave any for people to find, in hindsight it definitely would have been smart. That was a very good call on Smudger's part to figure out the pr was me.

Ok, I apologize in advance for this...

@ HC could you please give us your night actions and why?

a.) I've only played a few times in real life with a sheriff/detective/seer
b.) I assumed we had a seer/detective, which was awful in hindsight. I misunderstood the matrix set up for roles.

That being said...

The first night, I took no action because I didn't want to accidentally jail our "seer", which obviously didn't exist. The next night was the notscience fiasco and I didn't really have much to go on besides the people that went in hard on notscience probably didn't pose a threat, so I opted to jail FuDuzn based on the seemingly random nature of the scum, and they hit DDP instead.

I apologize, I severely misplayed in my role

[Z7-852]

I followed the discussion between Smudger and Dessew and I have to agree with Smudger here. His logic have been solid and Dessew haven't been able to discredit him believably. Dessew also haven't given anything concrete to work with. But one of the biggest thing is how game went before massclaims and during it. Smudger said that he had something to share and during claim Dessews claim was a reaction claim toward Smudger. This just makes Smudger seem more trustworthy than Dessew.

[Dessew]

Z7&Fu: shouldn't you vote one another? You know, for the same reason as Smudger and I are voting one another.
Anyway, here're your interactions with Smudger:

FuDuzn:

Notscience, how dare you leave the DDDP wagon.

I am filing that away for future reference.

ns leaved the DDDP-wagon for the Smudger-wagon, it's an interaction-like-thing in RVS.
In the meantime: FuDuzn was lurking, Smudger didn't post about it.

First, it is FuDuzn......I think it has been a conspiracy that everyone on this site spells my name wrong lol

Second, are you voting me as a prod or do you think I am scum? Or is this just a pre emptive sheeping(sounds like an oxymoron I know)?

Third, on my computer. Gonna catch up and post some thoughts.

Andddd......Go!

what a waste of effort this is.

I just think notscience is trying to look very active and to pass an image of a scum hunter.[/quote] would you say his posts do not contain enough content to pass as scum hunting then? If so what about yourself?

First, it is FuDuzn......I think it has been a conspiracy that everyone on this site spells my name wrong lol

Second, are you voting me as a prod or do you think I am scum? Or is this just a pre emptive sheeping(sounds like an oxymoron I know)?

Third, on my computer. Gonna catch up and post some thoughts.

Andddd......Go!

what a waste of effort this is.

Basically Z7 is my top scum read, followed by notscience and Cynical. DDDP and Dessew are both null to me, Dessew leading a bit more towards the scum side of null since he seems too afraid to make a mistake. I lean towards MVM being town, though admittedly it is partially because of the people who want him lynched. Feel It is my most solid town read.

and me? what about me? Feel it seems to think I am scummy so why not agree with him about me if he is your most solid town read?

but I get a 'quietly pulling the strings' vibe from him.

which means what please?

Now I like to have fun with a lot of my posting, but this was all fluff a zero content when we are clearly out of rvs. Not a fan of this but in a newbie game I wouldn't see scum being this comfortable to make a post like this.

why do people do this,” If I was scum” I would not do this? WIFOM much?

I never said 'if I was scum', just saying that in my experience playing newbie games I haven't seen a newbie player act like that as scum. Most newbies don't get that comfortable that early in a game as scum.

Also, Feel It only asked me about you(smudger) because I had inadvertenly left you out of my reads. I don't know why that would be a 'thing' to point out about Feel It.

These above actually look like they weren't scumbuddies

After a very quick iso of feel it he was riding notscience early on then switched to smudger, but he seemed a bit more concerned with just getting a lynch in then hardcore scum hunting(not a knock on him, once a flip or two occurs it does become easier for me to scum hunt as well).

Then who is the other scum if they wanted Feel it off their back?

Notscience, why do you continue to badger HC about him bringing up good analysis? It is like you are trying to discredit him because he hasn't figured out the scum team yet.
VOTE: notscience

Blatant chainsaw/WK noted.

ns had a point here.

Fu- Okay, my thing about him not having a case was bad. I looked back, and can see I've steadily been in his scumreads. He's brought up several reasons to vote me throughout, his vote is okay. While the lurking throughout day 1 was kinda bad, what he has posted is decent. Leaning town.

Seriously smudger? That is about the most anti town thing you can do, if you aren't scum then I don't know what to think.

"OMG, somebody thinks I'm town, time to act townish (I was on that wagon but who cares?)"

Smudger, between not really explaining why you quick hammered notscience(calling him annoying is no excuse) and your extremely defensive omgus-isng to Dessew understandably questioning you I think I would be confident on a vote on either you or Z7, given all that has happened I am growing confident you are scum and I am not going to go back on my first instint in regards to Z7.

I don't really see any omgus, perhaps it's bus?

Smudger, you seem surprised that people are questioning what you did as possibly being scummy. The fact is that there is no town focused reason to do what you did, even you were a cop with a guilty on notscience it is still anti town to quick hammer like that.......and obviously we know that wasn't the case.

And what spotlight am I shifting away?

Hello pot, I would like to introduce you to a kettle.

with regards to spotlights, you ave had a constant stream of votes on you all game, DDP, mvm and Dessew, 2 of those are no loneg with us. this is what I mean with regard to shifting spotlights

Did Smudger imply here that Fu and I were scum? Because it kind of contradicts this:

I have a strong feeling Dessew is town based on something he said back in D1 I think regarding a possible L-1 on myself. that coupled with his overall play, or it is very good camouflage, unless of course you are an Alt, you are not are you Dessew?

even you were a cop with a guilty on notscience it is still anti town to quick hammer like that

I just noticed this, now this is very interesting and I missed it at first, why cop?

(also strong scum vibes from notscience which I guess influenced my town read)

that statement is scummy

Making something out of nothing.

I will also now direct you to Fuduzn and Dessews interaction and in particular the lead up to the popcorn claim and in particular 399 from Dessew, he pushes for FuDuzn to go first. FuDuzn went second and asked me to go next, probably knowing I would pick Dessew as he was, until his fake claim, my strongest Town read. So yes I am saying that the scum team is Dessew and Fuduzn, and their strategy worked particularly well for them.

It was their intention to ensure I went before Dessew, based on my read of him and the fact he has played the game in a particular "town" way. Thus regardless of what role I claimed they would counter with a fake claim from Dessew. I think though they were surprised when I said bullet proof town, which I might add is still current as no one has tried to kill me yet.

I would've claimed before you only if I had started, so yeah, I certainly needed a such cunning plan. It's ensuring that if Smudger gets lynched, FuDuzn's gonna get an übertown-credibility.

I am not going to vote yet for the very reason you just stated Smudge, I don't want to choose wrong and scum swoop in for the win. I also will not quick hammer as soon as someone as soon as someone is at L-1(obviously). And tbh I am not sure where to go with my vote when it comes down to it. Smudge you are bringing up good points about knowing the setup and knowing what to do in case there are claims, but this is something scum would do as well in regards to fake claiming. Basically that whole argument doesn nothing for me in regards to proving you are town and proving Dessew is scum. On the othe hand, Desse seems like the type who would cover all his bases as a town pr so he could do the very thing youh are doing, and it seems like he is really trying to discredit you. Problem is that also isn't alignment indictive, he could just as easily be frustated townie trying to convince us idiots or a lying scum using snottiness as a weapon.

Basically, neither of you are convincing me either way right now.

Distancing or common sense.

Z7-852:

Scummometer (tm)
HopefullyCynical < Smudger < Dessew < mvmafia < FuDuzn < notscience < Debonair Danny DiPietro < Feel It

currently, no-one is standout i my mind, but that is probably as my mind is still trying to decipher what the hell you guys see that is scum and what is not. I need to really concentrate and see what I can pick up. what is somewhat annoying is the fact that the opening punches are somewhat vicious and, to be honest mostly misleading' If you want to push me then I would actually put my vote back on Feel It, as his sum contribution is what? Squat.... I would also disagree with Z7 he left himself off his list and he should be higher than me or Hopeful, as right now I get a town vibe from him (hopeful)

Having the same scumread with diffenet reasons. Smudger pushed this case for quite a long time.

Smudger

s latest posts (#161-#164) strike me as scummy. There was one sentence that wasn't a question and most of the questions were rhetorical. It's just lot of text but little content. Yes he is trying to invoke conversation but he's not really giving anything to us. No personal views or reads or anything. Here I have to agree with Fuduzn (#156) that Smudger is trying to fly under the radar and acting as neutral and null as possible.

Those posts were horrible, indeed. Maybe he posted like that because of this:

That's what I'm saying. I think scum would stop to think and read over the previous posts, not just post something and then post again if something pops into his mind because he could make an obvious slip or at least get him unwanted attention. You post quite carefreely and you're a new player (lack of experience), yet you haven't made any obvious scumslip. You are either genius or town (I mean if it's true that you have no former experience in forum-mafia)

(Altough he missed the point)

Both

Smudger

and Notscience were skeptic about Feel during D1 and Smudger even voted him twice. But I would say here that Smudger would be too obvious target and scapegoat to be a scum. This actually make Smudger a towner that before in my books.

I don't like it.

Z7 which way doers your scum meter read? I know it was asked b4...

"Oh, I should interact with my scumbuddy."

notscience if you are going to claim or give anything in reply that would stop a hammer then please post.

Z7 posts later but doesn't unvote. No further comment needed.

I have to say I dropped the ball (#336) during last day.

I just want to point out: yes, you did.

I reserved the right to answer you in time, I did not refuse to answer you, my read on Z7 is dependent on the popcorn claim and if it happens, but as you are obviously pushing for it,tbh I am in two minds between him and you, one of you is scum the other is town.

HC @ Z7 - one is scum the other is town.

But you knew that HC was a PR, so, yeah, what?

Smudgers withholding information would be wise if he is a real power role and have some solid information such as cop findings about scum. But I will start the mass claiming circle.

Well, some people are able to understand it...

I have to agree with Smudger right now. There isn't really any holes in his theory if his claim is genuine and right now I don't see any reason to doubt this. We have to wait to hear from Dessew but right now I'am also leaning toward him.

So the first to post is town.
Smudger had considerably less interaction with Z7 than FuDuzn, maybe noteworthy.

Reagarding the order we claimed in:

The order Smudger and I claimed doesn't really matter imo, if someone knew that there was at least 50% chance of having BP/JK (and scum did), claiming bulletproof is rather safe, you don't have to make up night actions or explain yourself much.

[Dessew]

Almost forgot: both of them can be Smudger's scumbuddy, perhaps Z7 is more likely than Fu, but probably only because I like the idea that Smudger deliberately went obvious, and it fits better with Z7 (see: #291)

[HopefullyCynical]

Holy page long posts, Batman. Can we get a tl;dr version of that?

Dessew, how come you didn't really participate like this earlier? This is easily the most active you've been all game, and most of it seems reactionary to Smudger's claims.

[Smudger]

Dessew in answer to your

you are the one who isn't answering the questions: what more would a newbie tracker do than a newbie jk?

was here (see the bolded part)

This was furthered strengthened by the fact that HC was always asking questions about game mechanics etc and I believed that he has no idea about what breadcrumbing is. So as part of my thought process it made sense to me that HC was the other town PR,

and more than likely the Jail keeper, as had, he been the tracker I feel even he would have said something in thread.

[Smudger]

Holy page long posts, Batman. Can we get a tl;dr version of that?

Dessew, how come you didn't really participate like this earlier? This is easily the most active you've been all game, and most of it seems reactionary to Smudger's claims.

totally agree, in fact I was about to say the exact same thing.

[Smudger]

@mod

I am going to be away for a while on vacation and will have limited access but will definitely stay in touch with the game, actually quite a long haul this year (25 July) Dubai - NY - Florida - Vegas - Dubai. (13th August)

[Dessew]

On D1 I wanted to participate more, I even made a few summary posts etc., but there were two lurkers, and activity was low over all imo. I was V/LA on D2, I could make only one post. I think I've been fairly active on D3. I had no reason to make a post about two certain players interactions in this depth before because there were no obvious slips. I think it's more useful than a "You're a liar!/No, I'm not, you are!" debate.

Dessew in answer to your

you are the one who isn't answering the questions: what more would a newbie tracker do than a newbie jk?

was here (see the bolded part)

This was furthered strengthened by the fact that HC was always asking questions about game mechanics etc and I believed that he has no idea about what breadcrumbing is. So as part of my thought process it made sense to me that HC was the other town PR,

and more than likely the Jail keeper, as had, he been the tracker I feel even he would have said something in thread.

Okay, but why would he have done anything as a tracker?

Holy page long posts, Batman. Can we get a tl;dr version of that?

Dessew, how come you didn't really participate like this earlier? This is easily the most active you've been all game, and most of it seems reactionary to Smudger's claims.

totally agree, in fact I was about to say the exact same thing.

So you don't like when I post content with details.

[Dessew]

I just think notscience is trying to look very active and to pass an image of a scum hunter.

would you say his posts do not contain enough content to pass as scum hunting then? If so what about yourself?
[/quote]
It was from #161, sorry.

[Dessew]

damnit...
you got the idea, I hope

[Smudger]

as a newbie tracker you send your PM to the Mod and get back so and so1 went to see so and so2.

that night so and so2 gets NK'd

what do you think a newbie tracker would do, keep it quite or post in thread? I think I no what he or she would do, it really is a no brainier TBH.




as for

So you don't like when I post content with details.

I am supporting what is being said by HC, you have posted more today than you have all game, and it is in response to my claim, but then if you had an issue with the statement then why go to the lengths you did in reaction to the observation by HC and my supporting that observation and say this?:

On D1 I wanted to participate more, I even made a few summary posts etc., but there were two lurkers, and activity was low over all imo. I was V/LA on D2, I could make only one post. I think I've been fairly active on D3. I had no reason to make a post about two certain players interactions in this depth before because there were no obvious slips. I think it's more useful than a "You're a liar!/No, I'm not, you are!" debate.

[Smudger]

as for scum hunting, I do it a certain way, I look at what is being said if I think a comment has to be made or a question asked I do, if the question has already been asked or I generally accept what is transgressing in the thread then I read, I know it is classed as lurking but that is the nature of the person I am, I find it hard to enter a discussion if 1. I agree with what is being said, or 2 the conversation I feel is not relevant. I get going when I feel passionately about something as I do now, I know I can win this game for town, you know it too, that is why you are fighting so you can meet your win condition, which for you this game is a scum win. I believe I have identified your partner correctly if not then Z7 is doing a good job at keeping me sweet. bottom line is I see HC having to decide ultimately who is placed on L-1, which is probably a daunting prospect for him, in particular after his post 428.

BTW HC you have not played badly at all, in thread you have played a really good game, you made it to end game so don't feel bad about your role, you live and learn.

[Dessew]

The tracker can track only one player at a time, it doesn't have great chance to find the scum who performes the nk. Actually, tracker in /tracker/bp setup works like cop with 50% chance of naive sanity every night. If he doesn't have a catch, he shouldn't act like he has.

I didn't say that I have any issue with your statement, you just desperately try to make me look scummy, so you went like: "he's posting a lot lately (he must be scum)". It's okay, you're supposed to do this, but all you did was repeating HC's question so you "contributed" in clearing the case. But my most important reason to post that you don't like when I post content in detail because you don't like when I post content in detail.

as for scum hunting, I do it a certain way, I look at what is being said if I think a comment has to be made or a question asked I do, if the question has already been asked or I generally accept what is transgressing in the thread then I read, I know it is classed as lurking but that is the nature of the person I am, I find it hard to enter a discussion if 1. I agree with what is being said, or 2 the conversation I feel is not relevant.

I don't get where this comes from, but okay.

bottom line is I see HC having to decide ultimately who is placed on L-1, which is probably a daunting prospect for him, in particular after his post 428.

Of course he's the one who has to decide. Fu&Z7 are basically in the same situation as you and I.

[Smudger]

I don't get where this comes from, but okay.

sorry misunderstood this

I just think notscience is trying to look very active and to pass an image of a scum hunter.

would you say his posts do not contain enough content to pass as scum hunting then? If so what about yourself?

It was from #161, sorry.[/quote]

[Smudger]

Of course he's the one who has to decide. Fu&Z7 are basically in the same situation as you and I.

I suppose, but we have clear indication what one of them maybe thinking at this moment in time with regards to Z7, FuDuzn is obviously peeved that I have FoS'd him as your buddy, but I expect him to vote for me he has no real choice other than a no vote as your buddy

[Smudger]

Where did I lie?

I'm the bulletproof.

HC next.

[Smudger]

The tracker can track only one player at a time,

agreed but I think you will understand the point I am making when you see this

VOTE: notscience
I don't mind voting for either notscience or Smudger at this point, as I think both of them are scum.

this was D2 before I hammered. had he been the tracker he would have tracked me N2 or one of the people he thought were my scum buddies

(this from early D3)

At the moment, I think the potential scum teams are Smudger/Z7, FuDuzn/Smudger, Smudger being in both of my theoretical teams.

so he may have seen who carried out the N2 NK on DDP

then if he had, and yes it is all open to debate, this could have happened

as a newbie tracker you send your PM to the Mod and get back so and so1 went to see so and so2.

that night so and so2 gets NK'd

what do you think a newbie tracker would do, keep it quite or post in thread? I think I no what he or she would do, it really is a no brainier TBH.

[Z7-852]

Dessews long posts (#430) are really lacking content in my opinion. There is lot of talk but not much that he says in them. Smudger is doing much clearer job explaining his play and logic. And currently I know that FuDuzn is scum so I would really like to lynch him. But if I had to chooce between Dessew and Smudger I would say that Dessew is the scum. Interaction patterns between Dessew and FuDuzn support them being parters more than FuDuzn being partnered with Smudger.

[Smudger]

Z7, FuDuzn and HC do you have any questions for me?

[FuDuzn]

Well since talking to Smudge and Z7 is clearly pointless since they clearly, and effectively I will admit, pushing the mislynch(I say this with confidence now since Z7 is going all in only now that he sees that HC is leaning towards voting Dessew and Z7 can just fully commit now).

HC, and I can't believe this just hit me, hasn't Smudge been pushing for you as scum most of the game? The same Smudge who has clearly been following breadcrumbs and pr tells all game just so can be prepared for this situation? You don't think he didn't have a pretty good idea you were a pr while he was trying to get you lynched?

Seems a bit strange right HC?

[FuDuzn]

Oops, also.
VOTE: Smudger