Mini 1478 ~ Mafia Xenologue (Game Over!)

[Jabberwock]

Look into Purpkin, I know Town Mara would never say that, especially in only three lines to get me lynched easily and quickly. My Town flip will confirm Mara scum, good luck and have fun.

bahahahaha

[TheIrishPope]

It was irrelevant. We have bigger issues at hand, you know. Drop the subject and focus now.

[Natirasha]

If I'm actually dead, then my alignment will flip soon anyway and the vote will not matter. It has some elements to OMGUS to it, as well. If I don't die, I have no idea what motivation someone would have for bluffing a dayvig. At best, it's a null-tell this early. I don't want to send TIP to a quicklynch, even if I think he's scum, because he seems like the type who will fuck over his partners if given the right impetus, so my vote is in limboland right now.

[morph the cat]

Pretty sure that was hammer.

(7)ProHawk, Purpkin, morph the cat, saki, jabberwock, lady lamdadelta, andrius

[morph the cat]

It was irrelevant. We have bigger issues at hand, you know. Drop the subject and focus now.

Other reads?

[Saki]

What. Lol
welp

bye TIP

[morph the cat]

When you get to hell, tell them Cabd sent you.

[Natirasha]

lol three players never getting to even post.

[TheIrishPope]

Purpkin is scum
morph and tierce are town i guess
Andrius is scum too (hammer without a claim is a policy lynch, no exceptions)
Nati eh
Saki is Town
Guess that's it

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@DTM:

I had the same knee-jerk reaction to #73 that you had but when I spoke to Tierce about it what she said made perfect sense - it's an easy way to gain towncred as scum and it doesn't take much in the way of competence or experience to post. While I'm here, though, what's your read on LLD (particularly interested here since I think I remember you guys having played with each other a bit in the past when I sifted through ancient meta)?

---

Anyway, if I'm scum, then I must be bussing TIP. So let's go ahead and kill his ass dead, and we can have this discussion tomorrow.

If you don't mind, I actually really want to have this discussion now.

I have a few reasons for reading bork as town but one of them involved me agreeing with his #76. I'd read your questions up until that point (and a bit beyond) and I don't really see how any of them would illicit alignment-indicative replies.

For example, I thought your focus in #65 was really weird. The bork/TIP exchange had been decently developed by that point and the bolded just seemed like a pretty small thing to highlight or dig into (personally, I thought TIP's remark there was some throwaway facetious thing). Maybe it's because I'm tired or something but I read over that question and thought about possible responses TIP could have given and I don't really see what TIP could have said that would have given you some insight into his alignment. I have the same problem with #74 too. I just don't really see what the point of those questions were.

Anyway, I know it's probably frustrating to do, but can you walk me through what you were going for there?

(P.S.: I haven't taken a shot at the VN yet, but I wasn't a fan of the Umineko anime personally.)

(The VN is so much better. Give it a shot some time.)

Anyway, to answer your questions in order. Firstly, I didn't particularly care why you read Bork as town so confidently. I was interested in knowing whether it was a gut read or had a explicit reasoning, and I was interested in your kneejerk response because I thought I'd get a good read from you. Unfortunately, I apparently can't tell who is who (though I think this is Empire now so) and I reaction tested Tierce.

Now that that's cleared up, let me explain to you my favorite form of scum hunting. Some people use tells, other people use actions and contradictions. Other people use GUT >=D! I use intent.

Intent reading is very elegant, but very simple. You simply ask yourself (here comes another Umineko reference, but it's just a great way of explaining it) "If I flipped the chessboard, and played from my opponent's perspective, why would they make this particular move? What was their intent?"

This assumes that, regardless of how logical or illogical, all actions have some kind of intent behind them in the game of Mafia. I believe this to be true.

So looking at the first post, TIP is saying he doesn't want to Risk getting nagged by Tierce. On the front, this seems fairly logical. Jabberwock asked for no spamming, so he didn't want to get nagged. Simple. Unless you examine WHY he didn't want to get nagged. And obviously, there are multiple potential reasons, hence my asking. However, the one I favored going in was this: The reason why TIP would want to avoid being nagged by Tierce is because he feels that if he draws her negative attention to himself, he could be risking his life. A self preservation motive, which is associated with scum. Only scum play with self preservation in mind. Townies play to find the scum, living or not living it's at the forefront of their mind.

So then, he confirms my theories by saying he wants to buddy Tierce SOLELY FOR THE PURPOSE OF LIVING LONGER. So this pretty much confirmed in my mind: Self preservation motive, very likely scum. However, I wanted to check something. Some players might be bad enough to consider self preservation at the top of their list of important things to do. It might not be a sign of scum, but rather just of bad play. So I flipped the chessboard once more and asked myself why he would freely admit he was trying to buddy someone. My options were: a) he's scum and he's trying to worm his way out of the situation (badly, I might add) or b) he's town and he truly thinks buddying can be a town tell if used properly.

So I ask if he thinks Buddying is a pro-town way to behave, and he doesn't give me an answer befitting what I think his intent would be if B) was true.

So, scum.

Does that answer your question?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ANDRIUS, WHY DON'T I GET A PLACE ON YOUR READS LIST?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

DON'T YOU LIKE ME ANDRIUS?

[Saki]

Did we really lynch TIP even before I stopped being stupid

[morph the cat]

Purpkin is scum
morph and tierce are town i guess
Andrius is scum too (hammer without a claim is a policy lynch, no exceptions)
Nati eh
Saki is Town
Guess that's it

After all that interaction with Lady Lambda you don't have a read?

[TheIrishPope]

184 was a stupid post. Yeah, increased to scum.
Also, this will be a very long twilight because Vi is probably sleeping.

[Natirasha]

We have five to six hours, I would imagine if anyone has anything left to discuss.

[morph the cat]

Potential TIP partners (odds) include Saki (high), Nats (medium) DTwhatever (low) and Lady (low)

Andy super unlikely but technically possible.

Strong town reads in Purpkin and Jabber.

[TheIrishPope]

I am not fucking scum
Why would I lie in Twilight
Please lynch Purpkin

[morph the cat]

I am not fucking scum
Why would I lie in Twilight
Please lynch Purpkin

Because partner masking WIFOM? Ok fine, let's play "what if you were town" and ask "Why is purpkin scum?" because that's my number one town read right now.

[TheIrishPope]

I just told you; Mara is benefiting from Cold Stone and just posted a three line herpaderp he's scum because I'm lynchbait and she saw the opportunity NOW LYNCH THEM

[Purpkin]

Am I seriously wrong on a TIP read?

please tell me I am not wrong on a TIP Read

also, Andy I exist ._.

[TheIrishPope]

AND NOW THE COMPASSION CARD
FFS
LYNCH
LYNCH
AAAAH

[Purpkin]

TIP

Reads

now

[TheIrishPope]

I DID
WHAT THE FUCK

[Purpkin]

there is scum outside of us

who else is scum, who else is town