Newbie 1391 - Game Over - FINALLY!!!

[Nachomamma8]

Will not vote Generic except to avoid a NL. Karnage can have the hammer.

(this is not scummy, because if I'm wrong, we win)

?

[Mr. Flay]

I don't find Generic scummy, at all. If I'm wrong, Karnage's hammer will win the game. If he won't/doesn't hammer, I will to avoid a No Lynch. If I'm right, my conscience is clean, and we lynch you tomorrow as planned.

[Nachomamma8]

So, reads.
TOWN:
Gen_Wolf

In the end, I don't think this is a likely-Antagon scum move. My personal rules for listing are that newscum are most likely to have at least one buddy in null/null leaning listing, bus heavy scum are most likely to have at least one buddy in scum listing, protective scum are most likely to have at least one buddy in town listing. Idea behind newscum is that they don't want to leave obvious connections to their partners so they don't want to single them out with such an obvious connection, which is pretty much exactly what Antagon did to Gen Wolf here. Don't think he would fuck over his partner as he was going down this way since he showed at least a little respect for his partner by attempting to root out a PR before he went down.

Thank you, finally someone appreciating my post.

In the midst of a bunch of people attacking you, it seems unnatural for scum to immediately begin buddying someone who finally takes their side a bit. As scum, it means that you did something right in that person's eyes and you don't really want to do anything to fuck it up, so it ended up coming across as more of a "thank you for showing that my side has validity" more than anything else.

You oaks are so far off who scum actually are they just not killing because your doing the work for them.

This comes from such an extremely paranoid place that I seriously doubt it could be coming from scum.

Honestly, I obviously want town to win. However, if it came to it and after some discussion people are unsure I would rather have them lynch me than potentially expose a PR or what not. I'll take a bullet for the team in that regard but I just encourage everyone to use the time we have.

This is also really, really town and not the type of post that I think scum-Gen is capable of faking.

On a more general note for Flay's play, play between here and what we're seeing now seems very different.

I would still like for someone to explain how I'm being 'inconsistent'. I'm seeing a lot of bare claims designed to delegitimize me, but nothing actually provable.

I'm on my phone right now so no big post, but I am at L-1 is that right? Somebody better have a GOOD case...

My predecessor definitely had some dumb things to say (including not wanting to lynch Antagon), so if I still look like a good lynch by the end of the Day, so be it.

From my limited understanding of Flay as scum, he takes an aggressive stance towards people who suspect him, which is something he started out with upon replacing in (suggesting playstyle), but then dropped it immediately after reading the game. I don't think that scumFlay is the type of player to posture for the "oh just kill me if my predecessor was too scummy"; he wouldn't bring that up in the first place, would try to get his foot in the door with the analysis posts he made and defend Gen as scummy but still town.

His suspicions as scum are also not really fleshed out so well; he tends to control rhetoric as opposed to actually try to sort people out. He's hoppy, he's opportunistic, he's pretty much a classic scum player in that respect. But certain things lately have seen extremely genuine, in a way that scumFlay can't (or didn't) replicate in that previous game; he didn't focus on lurkers for lurking, he focused on making people who should be centers of attention, and the latest "I will not hammer Generic" would require himscum refusing to hammer a townie when as scum he has pretty much every reason to.

Overall, I might be giving Gen Wolf too much credit and underestimating Flay-scum, but the slot seems town town town to me and I have serious difficulty imagining them flipping scum.

[Generic]

So you spent your whole time proving why flat is town... Still no case against me though.

Can you at least oblige me with a scum case so my lynch is t a total piss take where you are abusing the second lynch you were allowed. Show something to indicate why me as your last choice before you now die as a consequence.

[Nachomamma8]

Stubbgame 1
Stubbgame 2

Played a couple games with Stubbtown before, haven't seen him as scum. He was fairly easy for me to read as town both times, hence his trust in me having the ability to read him. Generally when you read someone fairly easily a couple of times and have proven yourself a competent scumhunter elsewhere, the interaction between the two of you gets extremely hard to fake when the readable one gets scum. If you read the second Stubbgame, you see me retreating from penguin after she brings out the "Nacho has 100% read me before. Weird." posting, and if you take a gander through Open 507, you'll notice that Laz starts to suspect me immediately after I call him scum. I've seen this towntell a lot and it only works for newer players or players I know so well that scumreading them when they are town is actually a scumtell, but it's been damn reliable until and I have no reason to believe that it's not going to be damn reliable again. I also have some other reasons for finding Stubb town if interested, but I'm pretty confident in this townread and it *shouldn't* matter if incorrect, but if it does, then Stubbs is town and please please please don't fucking lynch him.

[Nachomamma8]

So you spent your whole time proving why flat is town... Still no case against me though.

Can you at least oblige me with a scum case so my lynch is t a total piss take where you are abusing the second lynch you were allowed. Show something to indicate why me as your last choice before you now die as a consequence.

i'm explaining how i caught you as we speak.

[Nachomamma8]

I'll start with the end because I would love to point out some of the bullshit tactics you've been using since you've been getting closer to death.

Stubbs keen to open up the options for scum?

Interesting. Also you weren't wanting the mass claim, the thing that put us in this unique dichotomy we find ourselves in right now.

The second Stubbs mentions Generic-scum as a possibility, Generic begins tunneling on Stubbs.

Oh, and I should point out, had I been mafia champ would be dead right now. That would have put us currently at 5 left with only nacho confirmed, and with a status of being seen as town by most I would only need to create two mislynches out of three of you.

"I'm not scum because I wouldn't do this!"
Self-meta is useless and irrelevant in this situation; the only real suspicion that had even been nudged Generic's way was the questions from me and the recent suspicion from Stubbs although I clearly was the top choice in that scenario. He hasn't been getting any suspicion any game, taking a risk by leaving champino town so he gets the benefit of getting to kill both of us before LyLo, so a little suspicion can be extremely dangerous if I buy it, meaning Generic panicking a bit here is scummy.

If you are jailing nacho and he ISN'T mafia then you get the chance to block the actual mafia.

I thought it was fairly obvious given currently you are holding on nacho while we aren't sure of his township.

Funny, he seemed to understand the plan before. Generic's plan here means that no one gets confirmed as town and has the potential to let scum-me off the hook completely for no tangible benefit.

You can lynch me, but considering I have been one of the more proactive players in the fake all you do is hand scum a fighting chance at a win.

This is an appeal to fear and again, scummy as fuck considering the circumstances.

And yes, I agreed under the stupid assumption nacho might give this game some of his time after requesting it. Didn't happen though did it?

Wow, I'm so glad I was wrong about you nacho, that was an analysis worth waiting all weekend for...

This frustration is inconsistent with Generic's strong push on Stubbs. Whereas Flay's frustration is genuine because yelling at me and telling me to do my job and lead, Generic is attempting a strong push in my absence all the while complaining how I was never around. Even now while he's said that he would self-vote but his personal game philosophy disagrees with it, he still hasn't attempted an actual push on me because he doesn't have anyone's blessing. I bet town Generic wouldn't give a shit whether champinoman thought people pushing on me today was scummy or not and would hold to his convictions, but this isn't what we're seeing here.

I think if scumnacho thought he would be given the lynch without question he would remove me, because you are scummier looking and he can try and talk his way out of the lynch the next day.

Calling me scum for attempting you remove him because he's so AMAZINGLY town.

So you spent your whole time proving why flat is town... Still no case against me though.

He's MOST interested in my case against him, for no clear reason. Emphasis should be put on cases of people who will possibly be around during lylo if we get there, but generic is obsessed with getting a case against him because he can respond to it, fight against it. He hasn't really been interested in explaining any reads with the sole exception of his stubbs read, which is his current mislynch of choice. He will talk a tiny little bit about the Gen Wolf no lynch idea and how Flay might just be a good player while simultaneously freaking out because people are having those same doubts about someone who is a different good player. It's aggressiveness geared almost entirely towards survival, and his play here has been such a far cry from his earlier town play that it's been like I found a crack in his suit of armor and then completely shattered it this last day with nothing more than expressing suspicion of him.

[StubbsKVM]

I don't see the need to. I have more than enough trust in Nacho's scumhunting abilities.
If he fails to find it, then he's definitely it. It's that simple.

I think I should quote this.

[Nachomamma8]

Why are you so keen to press me further now nacho, you already threw down your vote,

I would hope you weren't so trigger happy that you didn't feel it was justified in your mind,

why now trying to assert my alignment with the interrogation?

Suggesting that my attack on him obviously wasn't justified is discrediting me for being too "trigger happy".

It's restrained passiveness because I'm aware this is a newbie game and my usual openings in games are more aggressive and antagonistic,

I have no idea why Generic would ever take issue with an aggressive opening.

Of those who have posted so far, heres my opening feelings...

In the end, this wall ends up being a ton of words, not a whole lot of content, and a vote for an easy lynch. It's still an impressive wall, but it's the type of thing I could see scum Generic investigating a lot of time in for some early towncred.

Feel it has been showing early signs of gentle pressure application although some of it has been misguided, and also thinking about the vote.
His scum plays included hesitancy on the gen wolf vote when he wasnt so hesitant in miss stranger, and a couple of occasions where he has done something without explanation only to fill in the gap later when someone questions it (can be a scum tell as he uses the time to make the reason fit the agenda or mood). But the explanations that have been forthcoming have made a lot of sense. He is more town than scum to me at this stage.

nah, the good insight was the comment against feel it, and his waiting for how the game trended before laying down the vote.

Another problem with his reads is that a lot goes into them and they budge back and forth bit by bit but there isn't a part where they come together and consolidate. I think that consolidating reads and finding which ones you really believe in are the strongest part of a townie's game and so the fact he is lacking here is weird.

Champino has so far chose to dissect my posts to death, down to my comments on time and story time about my motives...

More discrediting.

In fact I'm so annoyed by that play,

unvote, vote antagon

antagon is now at L-1

Weird vote. It feels like Generic didn't want to miss out on the towncred that he would get by jumping on Antagon's wagon, and that feeling is supported by the subsequent vote on Feel It as well as the hammer itself; it was town because it didn't give time for counterclaims, but it is very possible Generic didn't want anyone else to get the hammer vote on his buddy.

Antagon, one more chance. Short snalydis of the rest of us or at the very least your top two and your bottom two.

I still maintain the best lynch is feel it,

Trying to kick Antagon into gear before lynching him, making sure he has as much time as possible before he goes down. Generic didn't really do anything close to this with chkflip.

[Generic]

So glad that's up there, I laughed throughout. A lot of dress up.

Please hammer me now karnage. I want to see nacho try and back peddle from this now.

[Generic]

Oh, and if anyone wonders why I insisted in that only to hand wave it away, this is a lesson mainly for mafiascum about trying to meta me... Enjoy.

[Mr. Flay]

I want to see nacho try and back peddle from this now.

Do you think he will backpedal?

[Generic]

Nope, but I like people either being found out as scum with my involvement or looking stupid for a push that was so far off the mark they will think twice next time.

Come on karnage, get this done.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Prodding Karnage.

Vote Count 4.6

StubbsKVM - 1 (Generic)
Generic - 3 (Nachomamma8, champinoman, StubbsKVM)

Not Voting - 2 (Karnage, Mr. Flay)

4 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-08-11 07:00:00)

[/b].

[Karnage]

VOTE: generic

We lynch nacho tomorrow.

[Mr. Flay]

Not even considering that Generic might be scum, Karnage? Why is that?

[Generic]

You aren't considering it flay, why is it so odd karnage thinks I'm town.

Should I claim now?

I'm the town bulletproof

[Karnage]

Not even considering that Generic might be scum, Karnage? Why is that?

It was more to prevent a no lynch than anything else. I would have preferred a Stubbs lynch or even yours.

You aren't considering it flay, why is it so odd karnage thinks I'm town.

Should I claim now?

I'm the town bulletproof

I'm confused now. You already claimed VT. If you are the BP why didn't you CC nacho?

[Mr. Flay]

Or he's dead scum talking... either way Town wins. *\o/*

[champinoman]

Did Generic just waste 3 weeks of our lives? Surely not. Gotta be scum...

[Generic]

Yeah, you got me. I had you guys fooled for a while though didn't I.

All there is now is for the moderator to officially reveal my role.

Over to you mod, tell them what I am...

[Generic]

Just remember the plan. Jail nacho then lynch him high. I want my grave to be shaded by his sorry carcass...

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Vote Count 4.7

StubbsKVM - 1 (Generic)

Generic - 4 (Nachomamma8, champinoman, StubbsKVM, Karnage)

Not Voting - 1 (Mr. Flay)

4 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-08-11 07:00:00)

[/b].

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Generic is sent to the gallows, among mixed feelings about him being the last mafia.

Generic,

Townie

, lynched Day 4

Night has begun. Those of you with night actions must submit your choices

within (expired on 2013-08-14 07:00:00)

.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

What peaceful evenings you've found for yourselves!

No one was killed Night 4

Vote Count 5.0

Not Voting - 5 (champinoman, Karnage, Mr. Flay, Nachomamma8, StubbsKVM)

Day 5 has begun. With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-08-27 07:00:00)

[/b].