Mini 1478 ~ Mafia Xenologue (Game Over!)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

They are both kinda easy to lynch, which concerns me a little.

Thrilling, in the meanwhile perhaps you'd like to do something productive with your vote like backing me up instead of letting sit there all lame and useless.

[Sakura Hana]

@DDD: If you think Saki's an easy lynch then what do you think about Jabberwock who convinced me about the possibility of Saki being scum?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD: If you think Saki's an easy lynch then what do you think about Jabberwock who convinced me about the possibility of Saki being scum?

As far as I can tell Jabberwock's argument is a single post where Saki asks another player if they'd accept a meta-read from a player Saki claimed a scum-read on.

If we were to pretend Saki is a better player I would make the argument that even is Saki thought you were scum that your meta-read would have to be accurate because if you were deceptive that would confirm Saki's read of scum or increase the number of people reading Saki as town. If we assume Saki is as bad as I think Saki is then it's certainly that Saki ignored the fact that scum could or would lie about such a basic thing but Saki-town sees Saki-town and expects everyone else to. Those aren't the only possible options but they're certainly viable town causes of the single post that Jabberwock objected to.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anywho.

Ok teatime.

What do you think of

my dress

Natirasha's reaction to the DTM fakekill?
What are your for srs thoughts on Jabberwock and the purpkin slot?
Do you have any meta with ffery/Cabd?

On a scale of ANDY NOOOOOOO ;_____; to MEH how sad are you that you don't appear on my reads list?
How does me not publically revealing a read on you affect your read on me?

What do you think of SakuraHana's overabundance of nullreads?


Finally
On a scale of BETTER THAN PULSEFIRE EZ to WORSE THAN RECOLORS how awesome would a Annie skin be where you played as Tibbers and summoned Annie with your ult? He'd still have the same abilities as she would but it'd be him obv.

The reaction was null. There were parts that felt town, and parts that felt forced.
I don't trust either slot as far as I can throw them. I think Jabberwock is town, but Purpkin doesn't hit the right vibes with me.
No meta with either of those people.
Very Sad. Very Very Sad. Let's go with "No Andy No, Why Andy Why".
It doesn't in a way I'm willing to reveal to you~.
I think they're as bad as everyone else's overbundence of null reads.

We don't need more more Annie skins. Also, isn't that just Reverse Annie except different?

[Saki]

Reverse Annie is Annie in a Tibbers costume and Tibbers in an Annie costume
it's not as awesome as actually getting to BE tibbers

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Reverse Annie is Annie in a Tibbers costume and Tibbers in an Annie costume
it's not as awesome as actually getting to BE tibbers

This is content. Yes, without a doubt, you are useful.

[ProHawk]

Ok...

I asked Cabd if he'd like me to acknowledge your question to him last night. He said no need because you knew he was busy.

This is not a me vs Cabd thing. This is a me and Morph the Cat thing. Do you disagree with what your hydra posted?

[ProHawk]

Can we table that slot for now and focus on the two S wagons?

Why should we table discussion? I find Sakura the scummier of the two, but not necessarily the one I would like to lynch today.

[Saki]

Reverse Annie is Annie in a Tibbers costume and Tibbers in an Annie costume
it's not as awesome as actually getting to BE tibbers

This is content. Yes, without a doubt, you are useful.

Why, thank you!

[morph the cat]

Ok...

I asked Cabd if he'd like me to acknowledge your question to him last night. He said no need because you knew he was busy.

This is not a me vs Cabd thing. This is a me and Morph the Cat thing. Do you disagree with what your hydra posted?

His thoughts about scum-TiP partners? At the time, I thought Natirasha's early play looked engaged and Nati-town. I downgraded my read in part because of Cabd's thoughts on players' pre-hammer interactions with TiP and in part because of the more introspective focus after the dayvig gambit. With TiP's flip and OT's later comments about their role, I went back to leaning town on the Natirasha slot.

[DTMaster]

Hey guys. Apologies as I've been busy these few days. This is a self note to reread Saki since my RB announcement while I do a reread.

[ProHawk]

And Saki?

[ProHawk]

Wait wait wait, that didn't even answer my question. Did you feel like they were scum-partners with TIP?

[morph the cat]

Wait wait wait, that didn't even answer my question. Did you feel like they were scum-partners with TIP?

That kind of association analysis isn't something I can usually do on the fly. My strengths, such as they are, are more reads based. I didn't disagree but I really didn't have an opinion at that point about who TiPs partners could be.

[Jabberwock]

wondercritter, you forgot to meta me

I haven't forgotten, I'm just doing Andrius first.

As far as I can tell Jabberwock's argument is a single post where Saki asks another player if they'd accept a meta-read from a player Saki claimed a scum-read on.

If we were to pretend Saki is a better player I would make the argument that even is Saki thought you were scum that your meta-read would have to be accurate because if you were deceptive that would confirm Saki's read of scum or increase the number of people reading Saki as town. If we assume Saki is as bad as I think Saki is then it's certainly that Saki ignored the fact that scum could or would lie about such a basic thing but Saki-town sees Saki-town and expects everyone else to. Those aren't the only possible options but they're certainly viable town causes of the single post that Jabberwock objected to.

1) There's more to it than just the one post, although I admit that's a pretty significant reason. It's more that I just get the impression that the whole "trolololol I'm being intentionally useless" shtick is just there as a smokescreen so he doesn't have to do much in the way of post fake content as scum.

2) Yeah, those are plausible town causes for the post but that doesn't negate the scum possibility (I still think the latter is more likely) and I don't think Saki's incompetence is really the issue here (and I think we can all agree that Saki is playing "badly"). There's definite scum motivation in intentionally trying to play as poorly as possible, e.g., people writing you off as "too bad to be scum" while relieving some of the burden of producing content. This applies even if we assume that Saki is the most incompetent player on the site (he isn't but that's beside the point). It's a matter of intent and I think it's there in Saki's case though this is really the main reason why I've wanted to look over his meta.

---

Anyway, I'll be typing up the big Andrius meta report right now since I've gone over all the games.

[Vi]

~Vote Count XIII:

Laurent

Saki (4) ~ Andrius, Jabberwock, Sakura Hana, Lady Lambdadelta
Sakura Hana (3) ~ Oil Tycoons, Saki, Purpkin
morph the cat (1) ~ ProHawk
Andrius (1) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not Voting:

Daemon385, morph the cat, DTMaster

--With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

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(50%)

24

[morph the cat]

Wait wait wait, that didn't even answer my question. Did you feel like they were scum-partners with TIP?

Oh come on hawkie you're not THIS obtuse.

Potential TIP partners

(odds) include Saki (high), Nats (medium) DTwhatever (low) and Lady (low)

Andy super unlikely but technically possible.

Strong town reads in Purpkin and Jabber.

[Oil Tycoons]

Your read on me speaks to the contrary, but I suppose this is more of a post-game discussion more than anything.

Joking.

The Cat Hydra already pointed this out... but. The game I played with Cabd was full of meta to acquire mis-lynches, and it worked flawlessly. Unless Town-Cabd is a moron, he will use more than just meta to drive someone into the ground because I know he knows that meta-alone is more of a miss than a hit when it comes to accuracy. Which only speaks to the way he uses it to attain mis-lynches. Not to mention this whole business of tossing me aside because he claims I always scum-read him is a farce.

What games have you two played together?

Ofc I trust you I just wish you'd talk to me more but I know there are other pretty girls out there so I'll just sit here and be here when you're ready to talk to me.

I'm ready to talk. When and about what?

Next on my list is Oil Tycoons and only cause I hope it isn't scum trying to buy another day. Though I doubt this and it is just me thinking about all possibilities so don't mind that I am just saying everything on my mind here.

Why would we need to go through such drastic measures to buy another day?

Nacho, I made some time and just went through mbf's ISO in Duck Duck Goose and I think there's a huge difference between what mbf was doing there and what Sakura's doing here. In that game, I see lots of stuff with mbf posturing about both lynch wagons by calling them speed/lurker lynches.

"Upon review I think, ultimately, I don't have a problem with Irish's lynch. The vibe I get from him is that he pushes somebody, but backs off when they push back. He seems to be trying to take the path of least resistance to get somebody lynched. "
is specifically what I'm referring to.

---That Marth was a Jugdral character. ._.

and an amazing one.

Fluff is my thing not yours

seriously saki, things like this are getting annoying, you're starting to sound like i can't have fun and must play serious 100% of the time.

That's a pretty strong overreaction. Is there a reason you're ignoring me this game, or...?

Which one of those would you classify as a hard-on?

56 is not a hard on. The rest are.

[Jabberwock]

Here's the long awaited Andrius meta post. I tried condensing it this time to make it a bit more readable. Morph, feel free to comment/add on to this. I'm writing/editing this at 4:30 AM so if any of this doesn't make sense, let me know.

Ok so one of the things I wanted to look at is how Andrius interacts with his friends in other games because part of the reason he's pinged my radar here is the feeling that he's buddying his friends to an exaggerated degree -- I could see him buddying as town, but it feels like it comes on a bit too strong and forced for me. In his other games, he did buddy his friends but it felt like he was overall much more serious with them and in one instance he was willing to chide his friends for being lazy/playing poorly (League of Legends Mafia, #779). Interactions with Nacho in Xenoblade were noteworthy in that he's not afraid to speak up when he disagrees with one of his reads even if he does end up putting Nacho's judgment above his own most of the time (see: the way he conducted himself towards the Aj the Epic wagon).

Another thing I wanted to check out is whether he has a habit of maintaining static reads as town and the impression I get from both of his town games is that he doesn't; in fact his reads tend to fluctuate quite a bit. In LoL, he spends a decent portion of the early game suspecting IPie for being useless but ends up reversing his position later on down the road. I remember the Varsoon read in Xenoblade fluctuating a lot, going from suspecting him early on for complaining-without-scumhunting to townreading him to being a main driver of the wagon on the day Varsoon got lynched.

As far as his scum games go, I don't know if this is Large Theme syndrome or what, but he tends to post a lot less and there's a way lower signal:noise ratio. Aside from that, I'm not really seeing any huge differences? I thought him insisting that he not be ignored in his interactions with LLD and Nacho was kinda town but I saw him doing something similar in SAIII after crumbing something that had to do with the mechanics of the game that I frankly don't care enough to go and check out.

I'm gonna go sleep on this and then reread this post and see how he lines up in this game to draw some conclusions from all this.

(Also, minor thing but I wanted to see if he reacts to cases as town by trying to guess at the reasons before the cases are put forth and he does! -- compare #647 (bottom) in this game with Xenoblade Mafia, #2232)

P-edit: Hi Nacho. I'll take a look at the mbf thing again when I wake up since I'm going to bed right now.

[Saki]

That's a pretty strong overreaction. Is there a reason you're ignoring me this game, or...?

I yelled at her in another game for it. If that's context enough.

[Vi]

~Vote Count XIV:

Mad King Ashnard, or How the Grinch Stole Crimea

Saki (4) ~ Andrius, Jabberwock, Sakura Hana, Lady Lambdadelta
Sakura Hana (3) ~ Oil Tycoons, Saki, Purpkin
morph the cat (1) ~ ProHawk
Andrius (1) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not Voting:

Daemon385, morph the cat, DTMaster

--With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

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(41%)

26

[Oil Tycoons]

That's a pretty strong overreaction. Is there a reason you're ignoring me this game, or...?

I yelled at her in another game for it. If that's context enough.

It is.

[ProHawk]

Wait wait wait, that didn't even answer my question. Did you feel like they were scum-partners with TIP?

Oh come on hawkie you're not THIS obtuse.

Potential TIP partners

(odds) include Saki (high), Nats (medium) DTwhatever (low) and Lady (low)

Andy super unlikely but technically possible.

Strong town reads in Purpkin and Jabber.

Whatever man, Potential Partners. I don't think I have ever seen someone use semantics as a defense...

My point: reads list was faked. He

won't

can't defend his reasoning because he doesn't have any.

Tycoon - Have played two games with him on site, one as a joint-scum-team. Multiple games off site.

[Oil Tycoons]

Would you mind linking a few of those juicy offsite games?

[Sakura Hana]

So Saki's leaning town, I dont think he would have tried to save me with a perfect oportunity to pin that overreaction to me and get me lynched.
UNVOTE: Saki
Dang I'm out of scumreads now =/
@Nacho/Syry: What do you think of Morph?