Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[mastin2]

in pikman you repeatedly called me stupid, so what has changed that you suddenly have decided that I am a decent enough player that you want to work with?

You not being stupid?

I mean, if you called me scum this game, I might start calling you stupid again because you'd BE stupid. But seriously. Even in pinkmin, you turned your play around from derpmollie into deadlymollie and more-than-earned my respect as a player, even if you ultimately lost. And this game, you're doing even better play-wise than you were in pinkmin. You've earned my respect as a player I value and appreciate, as has Majiffy. I consider the hydra between you two to be one of the best slots in the game. So yes, I want to work with you.

[notscience]

That sounds like buttering them up so they don't go after you to me.

[mastin2]

Mastin why do you keep reaching out to people saying "you can trust me to be town this game"

Because I AM town. For the most part, the people I'm reaching out to are town players who I need to work with, yet have quite-justified reasons to be doubtful of me this game. (Because my play thusfar has not been normal Mastin.) I need to address their concerns so that they are willing to work with me and scumhunt ACTUAL scum. (Which I am not. Seriously, there's never going to be a game where I am more town than in this game.)

[Sound of Silence]

Similar in nature to my read on Malakittens, albeit less solid because it's not as backed by meta. I wrote the bit about Andy being a scumread before his megawall, because I didn't like his pre-wall posts at all. The wall itself (while being humorous) also was incredibly scummy to me, solidifying the read, but not being a basis of the read.The megawall opens up with a vote on nick; this is a classic scumbuddy-RVS move of voting-scumbuddy-for-the-heck-of-it and I KNOW that Andrius comes from a time period where scum do that. Said RVS-vote is for a bad reason, too; not knowing the player seems really forced. In fact, the entire tone of the post is really, REALLY forced. The vote on your slot, SoS, for instance. Then there's the faked reaction to notscience's reveal; that rant is about as faked as fakerage gets. Not to mention, entirely unnecessary, as others had pointed out the sub-optimal nature of the play AND in addition to that it is unnecessary to do because notscience is the type of player who ranting on will only encourage him to do it again. The bit about TD looks bad. Trying to get hydras to sign their posts, which I've found in my experience to be a bit of a scumtell unless the player in question has enough meta history with the hydra in question to justify it. (You know the type. A town player wanting to analyze their buddy who they have a perfect or near-perfect ability to meta-read, but said buddy is in a hydra where the heads post similarly. Then and ONLY then is it important to know or care who's posting. Andy most certainly was not this.)

I've meta dived Andy recently. I'm not sure how valid my conclusions from that dive are, but his wall does concern me. Your comments earlier, though not very detailed, dovetail somewhat with my own thoughts.

I kinda want to see what Nacho has to say. His only acknowledgement of that wall was to point out Andy didn't mention him. And that makes me wonder if he's seeing town-Andy. Also makes me wonder (more) about Nacho's alignment.

[Sound of Silence]

The Grand List of Achievements

1. Aj The Epic

2. Andrius

Late to the party:

Be the last person to make the first post

The Wall of Death:

Make a wall. A HUGE wall.

giffy:

Use an image file.

3. BeautyAndTheBeast (pirate mollie + Majiffy)

First Slip:

Post outside of the hydra

4. BROseidon

5. Desperado

6. Faster Than Light (Varsoon + Metal Sonic)

First Slip:

Post outside of the hydra.

7. Ghostlin

8. Mac

9. mastin2

10. Nachomamma8

11. Nachopappa/zman

12. nhammen/Malakittens

13. nickthename

14. notscience

I'm town, sup bro?:

Get alignment confirmed by mod

15. RachMarie

16. Skullduggery

17. Sound of Silence (fferyllt + GuyInFreezer)

Great Idea:

Be the first to think of the achievements.

First Slip:

Post outside of the hydra

Slipping from Slip:

Slip as an another alt account.

18. TiphaineDeath

19. Trust Fund (Cabd + Syryana)

giffy:

Use an image file.

20. Venmar

Ice Breaker:

Be the first to claim.

21. zMuffinMan

Mastin's ":P" count:

26

[Sound of Silence]

Crap. Wrong draft.

Reads:

Town

notscience
BnB
Rach
Venmar
Trust Fund
TD
Ghostlin
Aj The Epic
Mac
Desperado
Bert/thezmon
zMuffinMan

Null

Nachomamma
nickthename - ffery leaning town
mastin2

Scum

Faster Than Light (Varsoon + Metal Sonic)
Andrius - GIF leaning null. That's because he's refusing to read that wall.
BROseidon
skullduggery - GIF leaning null. He apparently didn't even know that he posted yet.

Not Sorted

nhammen/mala - ffery slightly leaning town, GIF slightly leaning scum.

[notscience]

Why do you have nick in null/leaning town?

[thezmon221]

Mastin's looking really scummy about this time, though...

Drop it, thez. You're one of the townreads I'm faking confidence in. I am town. I'm about as town as I can possibly be in a game. Not at my strongest scumhunting-wise (working on it), sure, yes, but town all the same. If you're town like I'm thinking, then you can trust me to be town this game.

I'm not convinced. I'm convinced of quite the opposite. Instead of claiming to be obvtown, how about you start showing me you're town? If you do that, I'll be willing to work with you. Either way, I have bigger fish to fry anyways. I'm going to hope you sort yourself out this game sooner than later.

By the way, I'm not inclined to trust any of your reads when you're scum. Especially your Rach read, which is just wrong.

Bert/thezmon

You can stop associating him with me pleasssse. I know we're the same slot, but my play is miles away from his.

[Sound of Silence]

@notscience Mostly because he's reminding me of the town game I played with him so far.

[zMuffinMan]

Sad thing is I actually believe you're town, mastin. It's just your reads are horrible.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

You can stop associating him with me pleasssse. I know we're the same slot, but my play is miles away from his.

...
Two RVS posts and a fluff post?

Why is this a problem?

[Malakittens]

FTL is very much in my scum pile, mala. I defer a little to GiF on reading Varsoon, but GiF also reads him as scum.

See I wanted you to bring it down on paper. You only mentioned his name twice. Gif saying he's got a weird vibe and the other was you agreeing with 'Jiffy. The fact is I still don't know why you're scum reading him other than GiF side. I know you normally call out people for scum-tells, but this game you haven't. Which amazes me to no end.

[zMuffinMan]

Someone link me to posts explaining the scum reads on FTL and nick, please.

I feel I haven't bashed my head against a desk enough already and want something that will motivate me to do it a bit more.

Also mala, questions and shit for you in #879. Please read + reply ty.

[Sound of Silence]

FTL is very much in my scum pile, mala. I defer a little to GiF on reading Varsoon, but GiF also reads him as scum.

See I wanted you to bring it down on paper. You only mentioned his name twice. Gif saying he's got a weird vibe and the other was you agreeing with 'Jiffy. The fact is I still don't know why you're scum reading him other than GiF side. I know you normally call out people for scum-tells, but this game you haven't. Which amazes me to no end.

I'm surprised to read this and it actually bothers me because I don't think what you are saying matches all that well with how I play. My reads are usually body-of-work/motivation based and I sometimes miss objective tells that other people pick up on. I had an early scum read on FTL and I'm looking for reasons to change my mind as much as to solidify right now. It's mostly solidification going on so far.

[Malakittens]

Someone link me to posts explaining the scum reads on FTL and nick, please.

I feel I haven't bashed my head against a desk enough already and want something that will motivate me to do it a bit more.

Also mala, questions and shit for you in #879. Please read + reply ty.

Will do when I'm off my phone. I'm currently locked out of my house. ._.

FTL is very much in my scum pile, mala. I defer a little to GiF on reading Varsoon, but GiF also reads him as scum.

See I wanted you to bring it down on paper. You only mentioned his name twice. Gif saying he's got a weird vibe and the other was you agreeing with 'Jiffy. The fact is I still don't know why you're scum reading him other than GiF side. I know you normally call out people for scum-tells, but this game you haven't. Which amazes me to no end.

I'm surprised to read this and it actually bothers me because I don't think what you are saying matches all that well with how I play. My reads are usually body-of-work/motivation based and I sometimes miss objective tells that other people pick up on. I had an early scum read on FTL and I'm looking for reasons to change my mind as much as to solidify right now. It's mostly solidification going on so far.

Your play so far has bothered me. I did like you trying to work with Mollie so that's kinda why you are null-leaning town to me right now. Was during Vox's game the whole 'food tell' you or Syr?

[Sound of Silence]

The food tell was a joke and it was Syr.

I told him it wasn't a food tell because you didn't describe the creme brulee in exquisite detail.

[mastin2]

So. Time to compile my reads. (Semi-lies are involved, mind you, in that I am vastly exaggerating the strengths of some specific reads. In particular, there's one scenario I'm rather concerned about.)

TOWN

:

notscience
BeautyAndTheBeast
Ghostlin
Sound of Silence
Aj The Epic
thezmon221
Faster Than Light
zMuffinMan
Mac
RachMarie
TiphaineDeath

SCUM

:

nickthename
Malakittens
Andrius
Desperado
BROseidon
Skullduggery

NULL

:

Trust Fund


...Oops. That's too many scum. If memory serves, bork mentioned five scum being in the game, and I have six (plus super-sekrit mebbe-scumz-reads in a specific scenario).

*ahem*

Let's re-order that list, then, shall we?

TOWN

:

notscience
BeautyAndTheBeast
Ghostlin
Sound of Silence
Aj The Epic
Faster Than Light
zMuffinMan
Mac
thezmon221
RachMarie
TiphaineDeath
Trust Fund

SCUM

:

nickthename
Malakittens
Desperado
Andrius

NULL

:

BROseidon
Skullduggery



And reasonings. notscience goes without saying. BeautyAndTheBeast is that strong because while I initially wasn't seeing their town-selves, it didn't take much reading before it began to show, and when it showed, it showed!
Ghostlin's been one of the strongest, most logical, and reasonable players this game. He's about as town as can be.
Sound of Silence is a strong townread, because I've pretty much liked everything they've said and most of their pushes.
Aj the Epic is a strong townread, because his content has been good and MULTIPLE players have backed him up as this being his town-meta.

Faster Than Light and zMuffinMan are fairly interchangeable as far as strength goes. I can see zMuffinMan being scum because his reads are even worse than mine are (ha! ), but "can see" != "do see"; I see him rather solidly as town.

FTL looks like town to me, and I've pretty much liked most of their posts. There may be a few which're concerning, but I really, REALLY don't see why people are wagoning them. I've had no issues with the content the slot has provided, and yes, they ARE providing plenty of it if you care to read.

Mac is a townread because most of my scumreads are pushing for his mislynch. No, but seriously; Mac's town because Mac's posting has been town and I have a VERY strong Gut townread on Mac to go along with it. The only reason he's not higher up is because this is admittedly not backed up by meta and I have yet to research that.

Thus ends the real townreads, and enters the pseudo-town-I'm-faking-it-for-your-benefit townreads.

thezmon221 is a player I need to refresh my memory of his scumgame on. His posts have seemed town enough, and I had no problem with Nachopappa (as little as he gave), but I still need to be careful. I have my eye on thez, but am considering thez town for now.

RachMarie is a decent townread of mine, and actually deserves to be higher up on the list. However, a specific scenario I am thinking about is keeping her from being town, and bumps her below the zany demon.

TD is a player whose content looks incredibly town, but whose reads are rather concerningly bad. I've waffled on TD a lot more than I'd care to admit, though I'm calling him town for now. Still watching to make sure, though.

Trust Fund is mainly here because players I trust (haha ) are calling them town, combined with the fact that I only have so much room on my scumlist. Combined with my gun-to-the-head saying they'd be town, it's enough for me to believe them to be town.


Let's cover the nulls first.
BROseidon is someone who is actually far more likely to be scum in my super-sekrit theory, but other than that, someone I can't make my mind up about.

Skullduggery is someone I'm considering bumping to town, rather than scum. (Sorry, mollie.) For similar reasons to Trust Fund, because there's not enough room on my scumlist. (And Skull has no ties to my super-sekrit theory, which the others do.)

I've explained my scumreads on nick and Mala.

On Andy, I'm actually close to putting him at null. I can see him as scum, and he's far more likely scum in the super-sekrit scenario, but I can't tell for sure.

On Desperado, well, consider him almost-interchangeable with Andrius. Standing alone, he's a stronger scumread, though the super-sekrit theory being true would make him a weaker scumread than Andy. He's also close to null because I'm seeing bits which

could

be the town-Desp. I'm still seeing a lot which suggests scum, but he's definitely in the weaker half.

So there's where I stand.

[Malakittens]

Not that I would have ever eaten it :p

Oh god Mastin.

[Malakittens]

If FTL is for sure scum then Mastin is probably a partner.

[nickthename]

I've explained my scumreads on nick

No, actually you haven't, unless you count

nick's posts were largely null, with some potentially-town and some potentially-scum, but nick's later posts progressively tipped him towards being scum. If I had more than that, I'd have said so.

Where you say you don't have much. So now I have to ask, why are you pushing me so hard? What changed between 692 and 928 that caused you to be so sure i'm scum, and why haven't you mentioned it anywhere?

[Malakittens]

Spoiler:

I'm not liking Muffin

Why? Why did you basically explain every other read and not this one?

Holy fucking scum-tell Batman.

Someone REALLY cares about how they look right now.

Talk about your vote on FTL a bit, please. I don't see the "scum-tell" there or anything particularly scummy in that post.

Can you give me links on Mastin's accuracy to read you?

I cbf getting the links for the games, but there's Brightest Day (Large Theme), Large Normal 137, Large Normal 146 (where he was the only active member of Palisade, I'm just remembering this read off the top of my head because the records of it have been deleted but mastin may be able to verify this if he remembers the game), Large Normal 143 (although he was scum in a multiball game here, so this doesnt't count for much), Mortal Kombat (Large Theme) (he had me as a town read for most of it and never thought I was particularly scummy outside his mastin-esque VCA). There may be other games that I'm forgetting or were deleted back around the end of 2011.

Looking back, I realised I don't recall ever playing scum in a game with mastin, unless it was on an alt I don't know about.

That's actually just normal for Rach in any alignment. She tends to do that =\

If it was as simple as not having done anything so far, then perhaps I'd be inclined to believe it's not alignment indicative. It has more to do with the stuff she's actually done in place of scum hunting that bothers me. I elaborated on this a bit in the spoiler below (in my reply to mastin) if you're actually interested in my thoughts about this.

Muffin it was mostly gut feel that I didn't like from your early posts. I know I didn't like the wording on your vote on Pappa at first even though it was RVS stage. That was the thing that pinged it the most.

Okay from my experience town shouldn't need to care how they look, but scum do need to care. If they do something wrong they get a wagon on them. There's more town than there is scum so town has the freedom to do scummy things here and there whereas scum do not because even being on member down it hurts their team.

The part of what I linked that made V look really uncomfortable in his post was this:

Just wanted to give people a heads-up, because at the current game pace, it could easily look like I ditched out or am lurking or whatnot and I might miss questions directed at me when I am catching up.

It's like he's trying to not look scummy and is avoiding in the future being called out for lurking. As if he doesn't want the unwarranted pressure. It's as if he's hiding something while trying to appease people. You might not see it as a scum tell, but I do. He cares about his appearance.

I'll take a look later on if I can.

Again - it's a null tell for her Muffin. I have seen both alignments-Rach do it. I have also called her out on it previous times in other games. There has been only one game where I was able to directly differentiate between the two, but I was Nightkilled by her and the town wasn't listening to me when I wanted to lynch her. (Well Slimer listened to me, but I couldn't get the other confirmed town to do so)

[notscience]

Mastin gets a no-shit sticker

[Aj The Epic]

If memory serves, bork mentioned five scum being in the game, and I have six (plus super-sekrit mebbe-scumz-reads in a specific scenario).

Mind quoting where he said 'five scum'? I just read the opening post again and could not find any mention.

[macmollie]

mastin wat do you think of nacho? you left him entirely off of your list.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

mastin wat do you think of nacho? you left him entirely off of your list.

Achievement Unlocked: Slipping from Slip