The Walking Dead Mafia! ( Game Over )

[Metal Sonic]

I can kill you by being boring if need be.

Or give you a deathly headache by running in circles with my sonic speed.


But why would I kill someone that is a very mean thing to do?

[borkjerfkin]

That lynch took a long time, and MS ignored it until the very end where he fosed him but still didn't vote.

And my question remains: would he have been less scummy if he would have voted there?

[ActionDan]

btw my personal opinion is that

NBH is town.
OGML is SK.

[Metal Sonic]

That lynch took a long time, and MS ignored it until the very end where he fosed him but still didn't vote.

And my question remains: would he have been less scummy if he would have voted there?

tl;dr Desperado = confbias/tunneller/scumtunneler

[borkjerfkin]

tl;dr Desperado = confbias/tunneller/scumtunneler

would you honestly be saying that if he were tunneling someone that wasn't you?

[Desperado]

That lynch took a long time, and MS ignored it until the very end where he fosed him but still didn't vote.

And my question remains: would he have been less scummy if he would have voted there?

Yes.

[Desperado]

That lynch took a long time, and MS ignored it until the very end where he fosed him but still didn't vote.

And my question remains: would he have been less scummy if he would have voted there?

tl;dr Desperado = confbias/tunneller/scumtunneler

[borkjerfkin]

Yes.

Ok. I don't agree considering the inevitability of the lynch at the point where he made that post. I do agree he's being a waste of a slot and am not defending him even if he is asserting that I am.

I don't know and I have no way of acquiring enough information to know. You had NBH as strong town--was it really just their claim?

I forgot to answer this yesterday -- at the time I voted, yes; since: 1) NBH immediately OMGUSed me today despite the fact that I'm the least lynchable of her new scumspects and 2) the slot can't keep their thoughts about OGML straight but mollie decided she doesn't want to talk to me about that I guess?). But here is what I think I know:

Town had 1 herder and 1 'baiter' for sure.
OGML can kill people separate from the scum team kill. <- if people are disputing this (I am talking about the kill coming from elsewhere than OGML, not that he might be an SK which I acknowledge), I want to hear alternate theories. I do not see an SK in a game with 1+ non player controlled kills every night, this is pure conjecture but I think it's likely I am correct.
We have 2 scum flips, neither of whom had zombie controlling powers.

Given all that info, I think it is reasonable to conjecture that there is 1+ person on the scum team that can influence the horde. I think it is a bit less likely that town have at least three.

[Desperado]

That's good analysis even though I don't agree with your conclusion.

Beyond NBH who are you looking at?

[borkjerfkin]

People worth looking at:

mastin - only exists in the microcosm of "guys ActionDan is scum" and I've seen town mastin numerous times and he does not roll like that
matt - Huge RL related fade makes this hard but I talked about him a few posts ago
Metal Sonic - I need more from him before I feel I can responsibly call him either or
TIP - TIP!town tends to leave a large footprint in games and make a ton of noise. He is not doing that here. That's all I really have on him.
Thor - re: vs Sugar Cain: I think at this point it is bugging me because Thor is just tunneltunneltunnel often at the expense of other things going on whereas Sugar Cain is reevaluating based on a flip which I like. If this is TvS I'm siding with Sugar Cain as the T.

Who fucking knows:

RC - I didn't read his wall even a bit.

Town right now would be

:
you
titus
actiondan
ogml (but sortable later)
sangres?
Sugar cain?

I think the responsible thing to do with NBH is to table it until we get more flips as their scum viability is contingent on game balance.
VOTE: mastin

[No Brains Here]

Yes.

Ok. I don't agree considering the inevitability of the lynch at the point where he made that post. I do agree he's being a waste of a slot and am not defending him even if he is asserting that I am.

I don't know and I have no way of acquiring enough information to know. You had NBH as strong town--was it really just their claim?

I forgot to answer this yesterday -- at the time I voted, yes; since: 1) NBH immediately OMGUSed me today despite the fact that I'm the least lynchable of her new scumspects and 2) the slot can't keep their thoughts about OGML straight but mollie decided she doesn't want to talk to me about that I guess?). But here is what I think I know:

Town had 1 herder and 1 'baiter' for sure.
OGML can kill people separate from the scum team kill. <- if people are disputing this (I am talking about the kill coming from elsewhere than OGML, not that he might be an SK which I acknowledge), I want to hear alternate theories. I do not see an SK in a game with 1+ non player controlled kills every night, this is pure conjecture but I think it's likely I am correct.
We have 2 scum flips, neither of whom had zombie controlling powers.

Given all that info, I think it is reasonable to conjecture that there is 1+ person on the scum team that can influence the horde. I think it is a bit less likely that town have at least three.

a lot of this was covered by different people on d2, I think it was nero who pointed out that scum probably had a scum herder.

where your logic becomes abysmal is when you say things like we are the scum herder and you keep your vote on us and that oh oh oh ogml is defo not the sk!!!!

like it is really bad.

and you are not the least lynchable out of my scum picks I would say red coyote is. and dgb has him as town so not a firm push for me. I just wanted to see what he would do.

moving on ------>

VOTE: metal

@ thor

anybody else other than nero?

@ desp

what are you thinking? I would like to talk to you.
until dgb says otherwise.

[RedCoyote]

Mod

, please keep those links updated in the OP. It really does help me.

---

Also, I think a vote history analysis is in order. Players who pushed trains on any of the above players should be deemed suspicious in some regard.

I agree with this in the case of Toog and somewhat in the case of Amrun as well. Two things I want to say though. 1) No one had any serious suspicion of Amrun that I can remember except for Aj and NBH. 2) Who's the first person that comes to your head when you think about people that suspected Toog? Sugar Cain. Do you concur?

I'm still alive. So that means doc healed me or vig didn't shoot me.

Doc wouldn't likely heal me due to the information I'd give and my claim of VT. Therefore, vig didn't shoot me.

This is a little simplistic though. OGML could've been blocked. Maybe sangres is onto something about no kills going through (after all, it doesn't look the the scum got a kill through either).

Don't get me wrong. I still think it's more bad for OGML than it is good, but I wouldn't just run with the assumption that he didn't shoot. That seems unlikely to me.

---

Scum prob have herders as well

Why would Michonne be a scum role? Yours and bork's votes are not thought out.

---

It doesn't have to be, but you've had NBH as town for quite some time and basing an abrupt change in read on something you admit doesn't necessarily implicate someone is lazy.

This is a good point, Des. Just when I was coming around on Titus, this angle on NBH sounds pretty forced.

---

AJ's townflip does not necessitate him knowing everything about the setup.

No, but for you to completely discount it is weird. Further you won't be able to sell me personally on Michonne as a scum role.

---

RC, come play on the Sugar wagon! I'm neutral on that Sonic wagon, I should get some sheep off that last lynch, serious now.

I'm still happy with Sugar and will join up on that wagon if you can do a better job selling the town, but I am much more confident in my Metal Sonic scum read.

By the way, an Amrun kill screams Metal Sonic scum. Amrun, Desperado, and I were probably the biggest overall pushers of him yesterday, but Des and I rationalized off the wagon in favor of Elli. Amrun consistently pushed him pretty much until the end.

Another point: What's the reason the Metal Sonic wagon did not take off as an alternative to scumElli? Because they were both scum, perhaps. Think about it.

---

He slings mud towards OGML's direction, Slings mug toward Mastins direction and reads AD town, while voting MS?

You're just acting out because I called you on your poor hydra play. Do you disagree with these reads? Metal Sonic is my biggest scum read, why wouldn't I vote them? I kept that post deliberately short and sweet because those were all important things to say about my reaction to the night.

---

oh I am sure I will get weird about them. worried? don't you have to comb someone's hair or wax their pits or something?

No, I'm not worried. No lynch will happen on me. I'm pointing out how silly it is that you weren't interested in sending zombies at your scumreads. Put DGB back on, please. You're a sweetheart and make me laugh, but you're going in a million directions and I cannot follow you.

@ red coyote

if you were to look beyond metal, who would you be looking at?

Sugar, Titus, and bork. Mastin stock is falling fast, so I'd advise you to sell if you're still holding. Wild cards in OGML, TIP, and Matt. I likely don't want those three lynched today, but I don't really see them as townreads.

---

And a VT, right? No night actions? Nothing you could have done tonight to kill someone?

These questions seem aimless and stale. Didn't you ask him the same kind of things yesterday?

---

RC - I didn't read his wall even a bit.

You ought to read just the Metal Sonic/pitoli part at least.

[Desperado]

I'm thinking that we are in a really good place right now.

This was the D1 town block:

3. Amrun

5. Desperado
6. borkjerfkin

7. Majiffy

12. No Brains Here ( DrippingGoofball / Pirate Mollie )

13. Toogeloo

17. Mattp
18. Sangres
19. Thor665

21. Trust Fund ( Cabd / Syryana )

23. Sugar Cain ( Nero Cain / Ms Marangal )

Amrun, Jiffy, Trust Fund, and Toog have all already flipped town, both scumflips were outside of it, and I still feel good about everyone else.

ActionDan is town for the chess/elli interaction.
Red is town for his badass catch up post.
MS is scum.

23 players means 5-6 scum so realistically we are looking for 3-4 more. If I'm right about MS, that means 2-3 in {Titus, Peregrine, Mastin, OGML, TIP}

[borkjerfkin]

a lot of this was covered by different people on d2, I think it was nero who pointed out that scum probably had a scum herder.

where your logic becomes abysmal is when you say things like we are the scum herder and you keep your vote on us and that oh oh oh ogml is defo not the sk!!!!

like it is really bad.

I've given plenty of reasons why I feel the way I feel and you can go ahead and

assert

that the logic is bad all you want; that does not make it so. If you're town you have every reason to show me where I am going wrong, but it really seems like you're intent on smearing me right now instead. Go read posh and GoW and then say with a straight face that this is my scum game.

@RC: If they are a scum herder they are "<Bad guy x - scum herder> with a fakeclaim of <michonne - town herder>". That is how fakeclaims work. And just because AJ flipped town herder should not in any way clue him in to how many herders or whatever else that town has. I don't get your point about AJ - just because we know he was honest does not mean we know he was right.

I'll read the MS/Pitoli stuff.

[Sugar Cain]

Why would Michonne be a scum role? Yours and bork's votes are not thought out.

I HIGHLY doubt that the scum team has no ability to control the horde. This is obtuse but considering that you are a scumslot it would make sense.

[RedCoyote]

And you know for a fact there aren't more than 3 herders, Sugar?

bork, Michonne is a pretty pivotal town role. It would be like saying the Tin Man is a fakeclaim in The Wizard of Oz. I mean, maybe, but that's pretty thin.

I will give you that if anyone can pull off a fakeclaim, you're voting the right player... maybe I'll cut you a little slack on it. But about Aj, Aj had the same role. Likely the Role PM suggested the possibility of multiple players that could herd the Zombies.

[RedCoyote]

Also, bork, Elli's lack of a fakeclaim, what do you say to that?

[borkjerfkin]

Also, bork, Elli's lack of a fakeclaim, what do you say to that?

I'll admit I don't know the flavor from my ass, but weren't people saying Milton was considered a sympathetic-esque character? Like whoever got 'the governor' - do you think that person does not have a fake claim of somebody else?

Look at my Xenoblade game - Meyneth was a scum role that I did not give a fakeclaim name for because she was canonically sympathetic. I also left a major main character (Sharla) as a fakeclaim. This stuff happens all the time.

[borkjerfkin]

Likely the Role PM suggested the possibility of multiple players that could herd the Zombies.

I think that's a given with the mechanic we have (I think it is alluded to on the first page even); do you think it really says anything about the alignment thereof? Cause I bet it doesn't.

[mastin2]

I don't give two fucks about the claim being power. Elli essentially popped into the thread and said, "Here's my claim, bye now!" He's had no content at all, and even at L-1, has had no fight to stay alive. This is not playing to a town win condition in any shape or form.

Yes, but lynching him was still a mistake. What did we gain from his death?
"...One dead scum?" Yes, that. But did we gain anything else? No. We didn't. There's absolutely zero info from Elli's lynch which is usable.
"...Wagon analysis?"
Is extremely subjective and wifom-laced. Were all scum on, or off? If neither (as in, mix of both), how many on and how many off? Where on the wagon are the scum? Exactly. Wagon-analysis is possible to do, yes. For instance, it's quite obvious that if there's scum on the Elli wagon, it's after Elli's claim, because town-seeing-claim will mostly think, "we should wait and see what info we can get from this", whereas scum-seeing-claim are going to realize, "Meh, let's just get the towncred now rather than tomorrow." But it's a fine art. Not something most people can do.

"So...you're arguing that dead-scum is bad?"
Yes. The Elli wagon was a mistake. Elli should have been lynched today, not yesterday. Why? Simple. Because if we lynched another player yesterday (REGARDLESS OF TOWN OR SCUM, though obviously preferably a scumbag like ActionDan), then we'd have the info from their lynch IN ADDITION TO whatever Elli claimed for a result today.
"Wouldn't Elli's result

also

be laced with wifom?" Oh, undeniably. "And wouldn't the Elli lynch today be laced with that same wifom?" Sure! But then we'd have BOTH of them, and be able to work with both of them, whereas with an Elli lynch yesterday, all we got was the wagon-wifom withOUT the investigation-wifom to help us decode it. Had I been around on the weekend, I would have said this then, too.

TIP and AD both defending Elli reinforces them being scum, by the way.

Vote parking Mastin is still super scum too

It makes a statement. "SCREW YOU ALL, ACTION DAN IS SCUM." Had I been around, I would have switched to Metal Sonic in an effort to prevent the scum-driven buslynch on Elli and to wagon different-player-but-still-scum Metal Sonic.

oh mastin where are you?

Away on the weekend. As marked in my sig, I am V/LA over weekends. Friday Night (which these posts were during) is part of the weekend.

Mastin has been really quiet and I think him to be scum.

I was abnormally quiet, as you put it, on D1 BECAUSE D1 WAS A SPEEDLYNCH AND I DIDN'T GET THE CHANCE TO POST MORE. I was abnormally quiet at the time you posted this BECAUSE IT WAS A WEEKEND WHEN I WAS V/LA. I've been PLENTY-active during the times where you

haven't

been idiots and rushed into a lynch, so maybe if people would STOP being moronic with their votes and urges to lynch people quickly, I could actually

show

that.

Prodding Ellibereth and Mastin2, I will also prod Peregrine soonish if he doesn't return.

And, by the way, this is why patience is a virtue. HAD YOU WAITED TEN MINUTES, I WOULD HAVE POSTED BEFORE THE HAMMER. I got prodded (despite my weekend V/LA), and was making my MS rounds at the time OF the hammer. Had the hammer been later, I would have had the time to post.

Mastin - Very few posts, says Elli is likely to be a derp lynch.

See above for both. Yes, Elli was a derp-lynch. I thought Elli was scum, BUT I SPECIFICALLY AVOIDED BEING ON THE WAGON DESPITE THAT. It was stupid to lynch Elli, especially not knowing if Elli was scum. Hence, why it's so incredibly scummy the later you're on the wagon. Because only the scum would know Elli's claim to be false, and only idiots (derps) or scum would not think of the value of keeping even a scum-Elli around for one more day.

[LYNCHED] Ellibereth: Thor665, Desperado, Toogeloo, borkjerfkin, PeregrineV, RedCoyote, Aj The Epic, Titus, No Brains Here, TheIrishPope

Looking at maybe-bork (need to double-check), maybe-RC (also need to double-check), Titus (also also need to double-check ), and TIP for the scum on the wagon. Obviously not all of them, but the scum on the wagon

is

there,

especially

in the form of TIP.

I was waiting for the lack of reevaluation from Mastin.

The thing is, reevaluation only happens when it's for the better. If I reevaluated my read on you from scum to town, that'd be wrong. Thus the lack of it. There

are

reads I'm reconsidering. (See above.) There

are

people I'm not as sure about. (Pondering a few things in my mind.) But nothing, NOTHING about the Elli lynch makes you town; quite the opposite, it confirms you as scum.

This vote sucks. You think chesskid openly called for two of his buddies to join him in the Stup quickhammer?

In a word?

YES

.

It makes PERFECT sense for chesskid to do it. Why WOULDN'T he? "...Because it's too obvious?" CHESSKID. CHESS. FREAKIN'. KID. And you think it's too obvious? Let me laugh for a bit. If anything, him doing so makes it MORE likely that Dan's scum, not less. Heck, aren't those three the Princeton Power team? All three having known close ties together? AT BEST, him calling out two friends to hammer would be null. AT ABSOLUTE BEST. The fact that Elli and chesskid were scum helps reinforce why it's far, FAR more probable that he did so with his scumbuddy, ActionDan.

For the record, it's blatantly obvious Sangres is town. Also also, for those saying I'm only focusing on ActionDan, you're dead-wrong. I have posted content on MULTIPLE players, scattered throughout my iso, even having a full reads list at least once. (A reads list in desperate need of revision, but a reads list all the same.) Among the more important ones being my TIP and pitolislot scumreads.

[borkjerfkin]

These factors may or may not come from certain players that will have special, unique, and new roles that will specifically interact with the mechanic to try and use it to their advantage. A mechanic that may look random may not be so random after all.

[borkjerfkin]

It makes PERFECT sense for chesskid to do it. Why WOULDN'T he? "...Because it's too obvious?" CHESSKID. CHESS. FREAKIN'. KID. And you think it's too obvious? Let me laugh for a bit. If anything, him doing so makes it MORE likely that Dan's scum, not less. Heck, aren't those three the Princeton Power team? All three having known close ties together? AT BEST, him calling out two friends to hammer would be null. AT ABSOLUTE BEST. The fact that Elli and chesskid were scum helps reinforce why it's far, FAR more probable that he did so with his scumbuddy, ActionDan.

It's total WIFOM and I think Chesskid is competent enough to have thought about this too.

On the other hand, the immediate "WRECKED" from AD on chesskid's death is probably not something he'd have thought to do as scum.

[mastin2]

I'll get to that revised reads list in a bit. I think right now I need to cool down a bit, since I'm ticked off that you're writing my ActionDan read off when there's every reason for him to be scum, and calling me scum for being absent

during a time when I had no way to be present

.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

No, I'm not worried. No lynch will happen on me.

I'm pointing out how silly it is that you weren't interested in sending zombies at your scumreads

. Put DGB back on, please. You're a sweetheart and make me laugh, but you're going in a million directions and I cannot follow you.

wat.

we did. sangres was a scumread of both of ours. metal was a loose secondary 1 cos I am not getting from him what I need. I believe the original question you asked me at the start of the day round after I wanted to look at you, titus and borky was

why was I not voting for my scumreads

. did you forget that already? cos there is a strange cog-dis there cos the approaches of thought are diametrically opposed in terms of how you are orienting the axis of which your thoughts are spinning from in the game.

Sugar, Titus, and bork. Mastin stock is falling fast, so I'd advise you to sell if you're still holding. Wild cards in OGML, TIP, and Matt. I likely don't want those three lynched today, but I don't really see them as townreads.

pretty hedgey on the last 3, especially when you were saying earlier in the day round that you thought ogml was a likely sk. so if you don't have matt and tippy as town what do you have them as?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

a lot of this was covered by different people on d2, I think it was nero who pointed out that scum probably had a scum herder.

where your logic becomes abysmal is when you say things like we are the scum herder and you keep your vote on us and that oh oh oh ogml is defo not the sk!!!!

like it is really bad.

I've given plenty of reasons why I feel the way I feel and you can go ahead and

assert

that the logic is bad all you want; that does not make it so.

If you're town you have every reason to show me where I am going wrong

, but it really seems like you're intent on smearing me right now instead. Go read posh and GoW and then say with a straight face that this is my scum game.

@RC: If they are a scum herder they are "<Bad guy x - scum herder> with a fakeclaim of <michonne - town herder>". That is how fakeclaims work. And just because AJ flipped town herder should not in any way clue him in to how many herders or whatever else that town has. I don't get your point about AJ - just because we know he was honest does not mean we know he was right.

I'll read the MS/Pitoli stuff.

I did.

the logic you are purporting is that dgb and I nked

our own scummate n1 with a mechanic that could be directly tied to us and that we pushed a lynch on a scummate on d2

. <----- you need to think about this for a minute cos obvious things are obvious.

our role pm kind of hinted that there were multiple factors with what nk we put in and as to whether or not it went through. we got the same role pm but with different character assignments.