[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Cabd]

If scum doesn't know they're scum, and town does not know they're town, then there's not even a game, there's nothing to even look for...

[Guyett]

I think they'll know after the first lynch... anyway this is an idea for a game I thought up in work when bored so it probably is super shit

[quadz08]

It's not even mafia anymore

[Cabd]

It's not even mafia anymore

[JasonWazza]

It's not even mafia anymore

[Mr. Flay]

yes.... but scum aren't told they are scum

...Then that's a bastard game and has no business being anywhere near an open setup?

I do not think that word means what you think it means. "No hidden features to roles" applies to Opens. "No fucked up and crazy setups" obviously does not.

[Wickedestjr]

I think Perpetual MyLo should be added to the Open game roster.

I also agree. It's an interesting/fun setup.

[LlamaFluff]

I think Perpetual MyLo should be added to the Open game roster.

I also agree. It's an interesting/fun setup.

Is it balanced though?

Im getting 19% town win chance.

[JasonWazza]

It depends on how it's played as to what win chance it has.

7/5

58% chance of lynching town
42% chance of lynching scum.

From there it stays around the same odds.

The fact that scum are going to avoid lynching each other

Generally

it makes it more town sided in some ways and scum sided in a lot of ways.

However i as scum, wouldn't mind bussing a weak scum player to eliminate a strong town player.

I think all in all, it's probably fairly 50/50 win chance given

Real

Parameters (less taking randomness into account)

[Roxxar]

So someone told me to post my open-setup here... No, this is not for these forums, it's for another who was interested in the game.

ohai someone told me to come here. My set-up is open, so I thought posting here should help.

Special Mafia

(I don't have a specific name)

3 Mafia
1 SK
5 Vanilla Townies
1 Cop
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Jack-of-all-trades

Mafia has 3 one-shot abilities, and SK has 4.

-One Mafia member has:
1) Protectionability (Basically Doctor)
2) Factional kill protection (Factional kill cannot be roleblocked)
3) Roleblock (Roleblock).

-Another mafia member has:
1) Role-cop ability
2) Hiding ability (Cannot be investigated, protected, killed, or roleblocked)
3) Factional kill protection (Factional kill cannot be prevented via Doctor)

-The last Mafia member has:
1) Poisoning ability (Poisons one person. Person dies the next night if he isn't protected by the doctor.)
2) Roleblock ability,
3) Jailkeeper ability (Protects everyone, but the factional kill and any other ability will not happen)

The SK has 4 special abilities.
1) If the SK's kill goes through, the next lynch costs 1 less vote.
2) If the SK's kill goes through, he gets to kill the person he was targeting the next night. (Only this kill, not this kill and another one for the night)
3) Kill bypasses Doctors, but not Roleblocks.
4) Kill bypasses Roleblocks, but not Doctors.

NOTE: Once again, all of these abilities that the Mafia and SK has are ONE-SHOT only.

[Cabd]

That seems way too complicated for an open, and very swingy.

[Roxxar]

I've gotten the complicated part before.

And I don't understand the term "swingy". What do you mean by that?

[LlamaFluff]

It depends on how it's played as to what win chance it has.

7/5

58% chance of lynching town
42% chance of lynching scum.

From there it stays around the same odds.

Actually it changes fast

7/5 = 42/58
6/4 = 40/60
5/3 = 37/63
4/2 = 33/67
3/1 = 25/75

Town wins in lynch patters of
SSS
SSTS
SSTTS
STSS
STSTS
STTSS
TSSS
TSTSS
TSSTS
TTSSS
Town wins at 24% of the time

[fferyllt]

It depends on how it's played as to what win chance it has.

7/5

58% chance of lynching town
42% chance of lynching scum.

From there it stays around the same odds.

Actually it changes fast

7/5 = 42/58
6/4 = 40/60
5/3 = 37/63
4/2 = 33/67
3/1 = 25/75

Town wins in lynch patters of
SSS
SSTS
SSTTS
STSS
STSTS
STTSS
TSSS
TSTSS
TSSTS
TTSSS
Town wins at 24% of the time

With that many scum, and with having to sacrifice one of their own at night if town are lynched during the day phase, the associative stuff really piles up.

It would be interesting to see this game played out a few times. I think town will do a lot better than a 24% win rate.

[JasonWazza]

So someone told me to post my open-setup here... No, this is not for these forums, it's for another who was interested in the game.

ohai someone told me to come here. My set-up is open, so I thought posting here should help.

Special Mafia

(I don't have a specific name)

3 Mafia
1 SK
5 Vanilla Townies
1 Cop
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Jack-of-all-trades

Mafia has 3 one-shot abilities, and SK has 4.

-One Mafia member has:
1) Protectionability (Basically Doctor)
2) Factional kill protection (Factional kill cannot be roleblocked)
3) Roleblock (Roleblock).

-Another mafia member has:
1) Role-cop ability
2) Hiding ability (Cannot be investigated, protected, killed, or roleblocked)
3) Factional kill protection (Factional kill cannot be prevented via Doctor)

-The last Mafia member has:
1) Poisoning ability (Poisons one person. Person dies the next night if he isn't protected by the doctor.)
2) Roleblock ability,
3) Jailkeeper ability (Protects everyone, but the factional kill and any other ability will not happen)

The SK has 4 special abilities.
1) If the SK's kill goes through, the next lynch costs 1 less vote.
2) If the SK's kill goes through, he gets to kill the person he was targeting the next night. (Only this kill, not this kill and another one for the night)
3) Kill bypasses Doctors, but not Roleblocks.
4) Kill bypasses Roleblocks, but not Doctors.

NOTE: Once again, all of these abilities that the Mafia and SK has are ONE-SHOT only.

Lets go worse case scenario for a second

Mafia kill SK N1, and poison the cop, SK kills the doctor and sets up ability 2 to kill the jack of all trades.

Town is fucked anally.

Way's to fix: Give mafia

1

1-shot ability each, they are way to overpowered.

SK, 1) is ridiculously overpowered. 2) isn't blocked by being killed? 3) is useful, 4) is wasteful, as unless the JoAT has a roleblock (P.S. what does the roleblocker have?) then simply by eliminating the mafia, this is useless.

[JasonWazza]

It depends on how it's played as to what win chance it has.

7/5

58% chance of lynching town
42% chance of lynching scum.

From there it stays around the same odds.

Actually it changes fast

7/5 = 42/58
6/4 = 40/60
5/3 = 37/63
4/2 = 33/67
3/1 = 25/75

Town wins in lynch patters of
SSS
SSTS
SSTTS
STSS
STSTS
STTSS
TSSS
TSTSS
TSSTS
TTSSS
Town wins at 24% of the time

With that many scum, and with having to sacrifice one of their own at night if town are lynched during the day phase, the associative stuff really piles up.

It would be interesting to see this game played out a few times. I think town will do a lot better than a 24% win rate.

Agree with FF.

Also Llama, i think you missed the part where town are

allowed

to no lynch to make the numbers more even.

i'd guess a 3-1 MYLO you would take the kill and make it 2-1

[LlamaFluff]

Well if you are going to no lynch you do it day one... 34% win chance that way, 27% if you wait to day five. Yes no lynch D1 increases town win chance by about 50%.

Maybe due to request/popularity I will let it do some trial runs though, im just a little hesitant because it seems very unbalanced. Especially the 22% clean sweep for scum chance. It just seems that as long as scum just basically decide to ignore all associative things (they gain little from working together really as they have a 2/3 win chance if no one reads their role) they should win.

[SensualKoala]

Cool

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

How do you ignore associative things?

[Mr. Flay]

It just seems that as long as scum just basically decide to ignore all associative things (they gain little from working together really as they have a 2/3 win chance if no one reads their role) they should win.

Mod should definitely require a reiteration of role/partners in confirmation PM for this game, yes.

I think it's unbalanced, but it will take a LONG time for scum to really use that 78% advantage properly, even in today's bussing society.

[Rob14]

Matrix6B

	A	B	C
1	Town Tracker	Mafia Godfather	Town Doctor
2	Town 2-Shot Commuter	Town Cop	Mafia Roleblocker*
3	Mafia Goon	Vanilla Townie	Town Macho Watcher

Pick a row or column.

*Roleblocker resolves before Commuter.

This setup, co-designed by Amrun and myself, attempts to solve a few issues that we believe are inherent in the Matrix6 setup, especially considering that it is designed for newbie players.

1. The Cop is a role that inherently emphasizes night-play over day-play. Both setup designers believe that day-play should be emphasized in newbie games, so we wished to nerf the cop setups a bit to make that more the case. This was accomplished by putting in the possibility of a Mafia Godfather, to allow for the possibility of a "bad" result.

2. We believe the Cop/Doctor/Roleblocker setup in Matrix6 is town-sided, and it was given a small nerf in the form of a weaker protective role.

3. A 1-shot bulletproof role in the Matrix6 setup creates a situation where it is beneficial to the town for the bulletproof townie to either outright lie or restrict the information given in a role claim. This is a cool concept in a non-newbie game, but it's a bit overcomplicated and confusing for a newbie. We should be drilling "NEVER LIE AS TOWN" into the heads of new players on the site and letting them explore the exceptions as they gain experience, not trying to start them off by saying "Well, sometimes it's okay to lie as town."

4. The Jailkeeper/1-shot Bulletproof/Roleblocker setup doubles-up on protective roles, which is not very desirable, in our opinion. This setup has been entirely removed.

Thoughts and feedback? While it's unlikely the official newbie setup will receive an update anytime soon, it's certainly worth discussing how the matrix format could be used to produce the best and simplest semi-open setup possible.

[Amrun]

Second all of the above.

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't like either setup B or C. (In fact I think GF/Cop is worse than 2 goons/cop)

[Cabd]

I love you two for attempting to kill town oneshot bp, i really do.

[JasonWazza]

So your going to lie to players rather then have it beneficial for players to lie?

Cop with a Lied about innocent is just as bad as encouraging players to lie.

Town Macho watcher with a Mafia Roleblocker and Town Doctor is fucking over powered for scum

What your basically doing is making what is slightly town sided, into massively scum sided.