Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 1.2

SXTLHGaiden [2]: Empire, Llamarble
Empire [3]: Tammy, Desperado, Nachomamma8
1baldeagle1 [1]: The Purple Shoe
Llamarble [1]: Elleran
The Purple Shoe [1]: 1baldeagle1
Elleran [1]: SXTLHGaiden
Nachomamma8 [2]: TheGarantula, Shadoweh
Ms Marangal [1]: Generic
Generic [1]: Ms Marangal

Not Voting [0]

-

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

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Deadline is August 30, 2013, at 11:00 AM PST.
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-08-30 13:00:00)

[Generic]

Still not pointing to where I commented on fake chainsawing.

Will add to that now where I said I was a scum hunting god. By pointing out early suspects I'm giving you an inferiority complex?

And I don't think anyone is terrible, but clearly tiredness has you all over the place which is when scum flips occur.

Your flips to me ate an over reaction to my posts, involvement with me before I had even named names (paranoia?), and then deliberate misrepresentations which when questioned you change the direction of the subject and cherry pick what to respond to.

I know mara and I know she would look for an opportunity to vote for me when it seemed most likely it wouldn't get labelled OMGUS. She can talk endlessly so her naked vote means she hasn't managed to cobble together yet a convincing reason that I wouldn't pick apart right now and so I expect her to return later with that reason.

I don't care how nice or nasty you are, when you bring something legitimate to the table on topic then we have a discussion, name calling to avoid my questions just further clarified you are not coping under scrutiny.

[Generic]

Flips = slips

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, you seem to be acting differently than in the newbie game. Why?

My style as an IC is a little less aggressive and more consistent; the reasonable but still decently aggressive is the playstyle that works best until you form your own.

...oh god, I really am being trolled right now. Is this the suffering I inflict onto others when I troll? If so, I'm so sorry Tammy for ever trolling you.

Buddying Tammy isn't going to stop her from her reading you as scum; everyone knows you would never regret trolling Tammy.

Gaiden, you have anything other than fluff to contribute?

Probably not, but that doesn't surprise me all that much. YOU not having anything but fluff to contribute is slightly more concerning.

a scum would say by himself I think.

I agree with you but not at all for this reason.

[Shadoweh]

No, being tired just makes me more angry and likely to cuss you out. Your original scumteam is 'everyone attacking Nachomamma' and is lulz to me for other reasons. When you say you 'know Mara' would she do that as scum or just as Mara? I don't think I've seen her outside of a hydra so I don't have experience with it.

[Ms Marangal]

Wow, ask a guy a simple question and he quits!

Well I see only one obvious chainsaw which was mara, one over the top display with voting nacho which is shadowed, and bald eagle placing suspicion on nacho without reasons...

So at best I count 3, and even that's a reach... Where are these 5 people chainsawing for empire?

Early opinion is I laughably nailed down the first scum by accident in RVS, and since then one over reacted to nacho and the other overreacted to me and nacho.

Mara, empire and shadoweh is my early call, and if that's right then they are in serious trouble early on because of how easily all three overreact.

I'm fair sure there is some kind of saying that goes something along the lines of "The expertise of the pupil is reflective of the masters Skill"

I learned everything from you, my scum game and my town game so, considering that you think that I would make myself so incredibly transparent early on, react this way to my buddy as scum, as well as potentially out myself this early on might say something about you...

at you also know my tendencies as scum better than most of the people here and, you know that, instinctively, I tend to bus so calling my action a "blatant chain-saw" is amusingly strange.

My vote was Naked for a reason, I might have had a good reason for doing it, I might have not but you coming up with possible reasons I could of had has a real distinct smell of Scum already looking of ways that they could cover their tracks.

I could have given a reason then, but Baiting you on giving your own reasons for why your actions are scummy, and why you think I do certain things would give me way more information from you

Probably not, but that doesn't surprise me all that much. YOU not having anything but fluff to contribute is slightly more concerning.

Hmmm?

You didn't seem all that concerned when I had taken a while to actually post something worthwhile. I had spent the first couple pages of that game Trolling and writing up shit worths of stuff and you never took a second glance towards me

[Generic]

Reading mara on ms will be different to how you will need to read her with me. I'm not ms residency yet having only completed 4 games here so mara and me are likely to take this down a colo path.

But she doesn't want that cos it will alienate any friend cred she can exploit here.

And you can choose to belittle my early suspects with a hand wave reasoning but I never left my pressure on mara, I began to case nacho after a simple push by nacho brought a weird tide of negativity on him and you over reacted and followed it up with avoidance and a forced emo play.

Still waiting for you to answer my questions btw, in case you thought your attemp to steer the topic was successful.

Pedit: posting this mara then reading your response. Such a wall deserves a proper analysis and not a quick pedit remark

[Ms Marangal]

taken a while to actually post something worthwhile in Mylo*

Pedit: Oh hey, looking forward to your response then I guess

[Nachomamma8]

taken a while to actually post something worthwhile in Mylo*

Mara - Nacho loves and trusts you Mara. He's confident that your heart is town, your mind is town, and your every post is town. My eyebrows crawl into my hairline over the occasional post but that's the way it goes. Underneath the heartiest of town cooperation lurk fears born in a nightless game long ago You know how sometimes you recognize town ffery in a game but all I see is scum no matter what you do or say? I get it now. Paranoia flickers around the edges, but I see what it's like. This moment of comprehension probably won't last, but the memory will linger. Today you are town for both of us because role PMS don't lie. Don't ever lose your mollie scum read this game. Don't let her get away.

AdoboNation:
First thing I want to address is the whole Mara reading TiP town thing since it's something that ffery and I disagree pretty strongly with her on and she's still a strong townread for me. First of all, I don't think that Mara would open up the game with townreading TiP at the start. From the way our wagon is looking at the moment, it's mostly being pushed by paranoid town, so scumMara couldn't have bet on us being a popular lynch target Day 1, and with that in mind, she would have to worry about us picking up on TiP and scumreading the fuck out of them, which of course would make her look terrible. But even better than that, I think that her #32, #33 switch from "let's wait" to voting someone other than TiP was extremely town and doesn't make sense from a Marascum perspective. For a marascum tip town interaction, TiP's first post makes him a viable mislynch to her; no reason not to wait and see how the rest of the town interprets it. For a marascum tip scum interaction, he could duck scumdars with the playstyle change. No reason not to wait unless she wants to bus the fuck out of him, but otherwise it doesn't make so much sense. But it DOES make sense for her to initially ping her as weird/unsure and then decide to upgrade him to a townread based on their conversations in site chat. As scum, she would also probably have a game plan for how she would approach TiP's playstyle change that she KNEW was coming, and I seriously fucking doubt that "immediate flip flop then defend the fuck out of him" was her answer. #24 was a decently smooth interaction with mollie, and I liked the trajectory of Mara trying to figure Mara/us out because it feels like she's the only one that tried. The "I think mollie is scum" was obviously a feeler which was completely ignored by mollie, which was later upgraded to a vote. Her paranoia on ffery makes a decent amount of sense and set up for the recent feeler vote on her; she later explained it by ffery always being paranoid about her which, again, is something that makes a lot of sense to me. It's a classic Wisdom accusation for people not to be paranoid enough of him. Her attacking me for not attacking her for ignoring us is a bit convoluted, but is also a move that makes a lot of sense. In short form, town-Mara has been following a lot of the steps that I expect her to a fucking T which means that yeah she's town as fuck and should never ever ever be lynched.

I think I was paying attention to you, Mara.

[Generic]

Wow, ask a guy a simple question and he quits!

Well I see only one obvious chainsaw which was mara, one over the top display with voting nacho which is shadowed, and bald eagle placing suspicion on nacho without reasons...

So at best I count 3, and even that's a reach... Where are these 5 people chainsawing for empire?

Early opinion is I laughably nailed down the first scum by accident in RVS, and since then one over reacted to nacho and the other overreacted to me and nacho.

Mara, empire and shadoweh is my early call, and if that's right then they are in serious trouble early on because of how easily all three overreact.

I'm fair sure there is some kind of saying that goes something along the lines of "The expertise of the pupil is reflective of the masters Skill"

I learned everything from you, my scum game and my town game so, considering that you think that I would make myself so incredibly transparent early on, react this way to my buddy as scum, as well as potentially out myself this early on might say something about you...

at you also know my tendencies as scum better than most of the people here and, you know that, instinctively, I tend to bus so calling my action a "blatant chain-saw" is amusingly strange.

My vote was Naked for a reason, I might have had a good reason for doing it, I might have not but you coming up with possible reasons I could of had has a real distinct smell of Scum already looking of ways that they could cover their tracks.

I could have given a reason then, but Baiting you on giving your own reasons for why your actions are scummy, and why you think I do certain things would give me way more information from you

Probably not, but that doesn't surprise me all that much. YOU not having anything but fluff to contribute is slightly more concerning.

Hmmm?

You didn't seem all that concerned when I had taken a while to actually post something worthwhile. I had spent the first couple pages of that game Trolling and writing up shit worths of stuff and you never took a second glance towards me

As your old mr for you disappoint me here. Deflection of your play reflecting mine to back me into a for we whereby if I accuse you of sloppy play I myself am sloppy.

Strike 1

Then you play on self meta to point out you aren't playing the scum game you always do. So in the first instance you want me to respect you are more intelligent than to make it I vinous, but in the next breath you are saying if you were scum it would be painfully obvious? And that's before I point out the fact you are telling me how you would act as scum, so why would you act that way if you know that's your scum game?

Strike 2.

And then, and this is my personal favourite, you excuse your naked vote on me as a reaction test, one which baits analysis and then because I speculated I must be scum.
I knew you would struggle for a reason mara, but that was a reach even for you. And to claim a reaction test against me, you and I know that was never gonna fly even if this line of conversation will seem like we are in our own little club here.
And the key thing about that post. Not once do you comment on my posts before your vote. This was the opportunity to say you had suspicions cos of x, y and z and thought you would reaction test me to gain further clarity on the case, but you decide to self meta, defend your play and then defend your naked vote.

Strike 3 - vote is sticking where it is.

Far too much self awareness, no analysis of anyone around or even me who this was aimed at, all a self analysis to excuse your actions.

[Generic]

*as your old mentor

See why I like to wait for laptop use when I type lots... Bloody phone is shit for fast typing

[Generic]

***
As your old mentor you disappoint me here. Deflection of your play reflecting mine to back me into a corner whereby if I accuse you of sloppy play I myself am sloppy.

[Nachomamma8]

You're mara's old mentor? Interesting.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Ms Marangal

Serious vote.

[Ms Marangal]

Not answering my point Nacho

I didn't concern you in mylo regardless of the high fluff Content I gave out, but you're concerned about it here Despite it only being page 5?

Gengen:

Point one, Sure

Point two, No?

I was saying that Immediately calling me out on actions that are contradictory to what I usually do is strange. after giving it some thought, sure. maybe. My scum-game on colo is more static compared to how it is here

3, I never claimed reaction test. not really. I said I may have had a reason, but the reaction you had to the single vote was what struck me as odd. I threw a little bit of bait out, but it doesn't automatically mean it's a test.

I have suspicions, but it doesn't mean I'm going to give them out freely

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't concern you in mylo regardless of the high fluff Content I gave out,

What fluff are you talking about?

[Nachomamma8]

I have suspicions, but it doesn't mean I'm going to give them out freely

yeah ok i'm sure you have a very good reason for this

[Ms Marangal]

Every post up-til page ~10?

the naked reads, and the trolling, and random lists of reads with nothing attached to them, and me staying under the radar?

[Nachomamma8]

Every post up-til page ~10?

the naked reads, and the trolling, and random lists of reads with nothing attached to them, and me staying under the radar?

i don't call that fluff.

[Ms Marangal]

Fluffier than What I normally give, and just about as fluffy as what I've been doing so far

[Generic]

Why are you still trying to sell your behaviour?

This is the point I'm making, your focus had been 100% on how this is your town game and explaining exactly what you do in your scum game.

That alone is grounds for suspicion, but add into they your response when asked about your suspicions and any sort if case was "I have suspicions, but it doesn't mean I'm going to give them out freely".
That means that you have nothing or you are keen not to be drawn on any specific players so you don't implicate teammates. Shady stuff purple.

[Ms Marangal]

Why are you still trying to sell your behaviour?

I'm not, Never was

This is the point I'm making, your focus had been 100% on how this is your town game and explaining exactly what you do in your scum game.

and this isn't the argument I'm making

My argument is, the things you Should expect me to do based on what you know and things that you are calling me out on don't Mesh. That's what I found suspicious.

I am also not very fond of your attack on Shadoweh or Empire

That alone is grounds for suspicion, but add into they your response when asked about your suspicions and any sort if case was "I have suspicions, but it doesn't mean I'm going to give them out freely".

That means that you have nothing or you are keen not to be drawn on any specific players so you don't implicate teammates. Shady stuff purple.

This means I have suspicions based around people who have posted so far and I'm not going to share them until I feel the need to do so

That thought process is simplistic, and doesn't take into consideration of various reasons to why people would want to with-hold reads

I know town-Gen is capable of considering that, but doesn't do so here.

You are already looking to take every thing I post and turning it into something scum-motivated when it isn't.

Town-Generic doesn't do that.

Scum-gen has a cockier Demeanor than townGen.

You already admitted that you knew that I would struggle with a battle against you. That is all scum-gen Needs to make a push for a mis-lynch

I already admitted that I might not have had a good reason for that Naked vote, but before I could even attempt to explain it you already had it coated it in red paint and don't even acknowledge that I admitted to such.

You have every little rebuttal all planned out for the most part. You're anticipating the answers I'm going to give, you really haven't analyzed anything I have stated

Post 76 has a tiny indicator there that show's that you are, in fact doing that

[Generic]

Shadoweh tracked me. His paranoia isn't my concern, him being scum is.

And believe me I'm not being cocky, I'm just pointing to obvious suspicions which indicate early scum tells. Your suspicion of me came after you voted by your last comment. Which means you are either making the answer up now subsequent to your actions, or you like shadoweh had assumed I was referring to him which to me points to a guilty conscience only found in those who know who the scum are.

So which is it mara? An ill thought out vote you are now scrambling to justify or a guilty conscience?

[Generic]

Also, did you really think scare mongering me with what you expect 'town gen' to do was going to make me panic about how I look? I'm more concerned with applying pressure to suspects than what I look like.

Self awareness is scums objective, mine is to find them.

[TheGarantula]

UNVOTE: Nachomamma

In all seriousness, TheGarantula is prob-town for thinking it's cool to talk about ongoing games, def not something a scum would say by himself I think.

Why wouldn't they?

Early opinion is I laughably nailed down the first scum by accident in RVS, and since then one over reacted to nacho and the other overreacted to me and nacho.

How do you know how many scum there are?

VOTE: Ms Marangal
The whole self-meta defense/attack is odd, and there's also this:

I never claimed reaction test. not really. I said I may have had a reason, but the reaction you had to the single vote was what struck me as odd. I threw a little bit of bait out, but it doesn't automatically mean it's a test.

I could have given a reason then, but Baiting you on giving your own reasons for why your actions are scummy, and why you think I do certain things would give me way more information from you

You said that leaving your vote naked was to get a reaction. How is that not a reaction test?