Mini 1482: Castle - A Mafia Murder So Vile (GAME OVER)

[Wisdom]

How the fuck did I not make sense in Polygamy, mollie? You keep saying that and it's bullshit.

[penguin_alien]

and figured that when havingfitz flipped town he'd be able to use it to push the people who'd started the quicklynch wagon.

So I would push people for starting a deadline wagon, even if it was on town? Deadline wagons on town happen all the time.
Also, are you saying that I made up my havingfitz read at the beginning of the day, knowing what will happen at the end of the day?

No, I'm saying that you scumread someone at the start of the day (

and didn't change that read during the day IIRC

looking over your ISO this didn't change at all) who wasn't actually in much danger of getting lynched until right at deadline. He never had more than one vote on him until that last flurry of wagoning. Scum likes other people to lynch their town reads while holding onto their purported scum reads to use as fodder for later in the game. If you're Mafia, you had no especial reason to think havingfitz was an SK; the odds from your perspective would have had him as a townie. So here comes deadline, wagons forming and collapsing elsewhere, and suddenly people are forming one on someone whose lynch you've been advocating. How to avoid jumping on the wagon? Say it's now scum-motivated. You can't backtrack on your havingfitz read without looking like a hypocrite, but you can find a reason to stay off the wagon anyways.

Bottom line, if you're scum you were probably hoping to get a wagon on presumed town-havingfitz somewhere down the line. You have a reputation for tunneling, so no one would think it odd for you to come back to a read you'd been holding since early game later on.

And yes, if havingfitz had flipped town, the part where we didn't lynch people at deadline who at least would have provided lots of player interaction information by virtue of not having been V/LA for so long in favor of HF would have been a fine argument. Still might be. Doesn't excuse your interactions with that particular wagon.

Heck, if the outcome yesterday says one thing, it's that the havingfitz lynch doesn't improve anyone's town standing. It was great for town, but it could have easily been godawful and only been marginally better than a no-lynch.

As noted earlier, I do want to hear from serra. But Nat wasn't at L-1, with only serra there as a hammer option. The biggest wagon I can find had 4 of 7 necessary votes, and since I'd fallen asleep it was unclear whether we'd even get a hammer assuming Bert jumped on as well. From what I can tell, with Nat not self-voting and me not around, the most you'd've gotten would have been six with serra. The other five people weren't around so far as I can tell.

Desperado: macmollie likes me better!

[Wisdom]

So here comes deadline, wagons forming and collapsing elsewhere, and suddenly people are forming one on someone whose lynch you've been advocating. How to avoid jumping on the wagon? Say it's now scum-motivated. You can't backtrack on your havingfitz read without looking like a hypocrite, but you can find a reason to stay off the wagon anyways.

And why not simply hammer..? Deadline, no1 will blame me, I have scumread him all game, everything I need. Why make all this scene and draw attention on myself?

[macmollie]

where's your vote penguin

[Wisdom]

It was great for town, but it could have easily been godawful and only been marginally better than a no-lynch.

As I described it, stroke of luck.

[macmollie]

So here comes deadline, wagons forming and collapsing elsewhere, and suddenly people are forming one on someone whose lynch you've been advocating. How to avoid jumping on the wagon? Say it's now scum-motivated. You can't backtrack on your havingfitz read without looking like a hypocrite, but you can find a reason to stay off the wagon anyways.

And why not simply hammer..? Deadline, no1 will blame me, I have scumread him all game, everything I need. Why make all this scene and draw attention on myself?

cos you like attention?

[Wisdom]

But Nat wasn't at L-1, with only serra there as a hammer option. The biggest wagon I can find had 4 of 7 necessary votes, and since I'd fallen asleep it was unclear whether we'd even get a hammer assuming Bert jumped on as well. From what I can tell, with Nat not self-voting and me not around, the most you'd've gotten would have been six with serra. The other five people weren't around so far as I can tell.

He would at least bring him at L-1 though, and then we could wait for someone to hammer. Better than doing nothing /voting people with zero votes on them. Especially for someone who had claimed he was willing to self-lynch over no-lynching.

[Wisdom]

mollie are you going to answer or are you just going to lie about my meta?

[Wisdom]

Maybe Mantis is right about you after all. This is exactly how you lied about my meta in Hidden Temple.

[macmollie]

I am not lying about your meta. you made zero sense to me in that game.

like it or not you are usually pretty good at picking up social cues and pegging when a player is going to break. when you think they are scum you push onwards but when you are scum you push beyond reason. there is a difference even if I cannot articulate it exactly.

[macmollie]

Maybe Mantis is right about you after all. This is exactly how you lied about my meta in Hidden Temple.

lol ^ is what I am talking about.

it is like you have run out of words and have to resort to cheap potshots to somehow make you seem more town.

when you are town you exude it in an unmistakeable way, it is why I like working with you when I get a town read.

[Wisdom]

You're blatantly lying because first of all it's established that I make much less sense as town because of my paranoia. Sometimes I get some things right, but most of the time I get paranoid over wrong things. And you know that, you've witnessed such occasions enough times.
And then you're lying because in Polygamy I made sense in everything I said. Rarely I will say something that people won't think makes sense as scum, unless I'm trying to emulate my townplay.

[macmollie]

if you think I am blatantly lying then vote me. I have nothing to gain by lying I am only telling you how I perceive you.

[Wisdom]

This is the exact feeling I got in Hidden Temple tbh - you can't see I am town when you should be seeing it. I understand if Om, Natirasha, or whoever else has not played with before does not see it, but you should be seeing it.

[Sweet Pertayter]

God Wisdom

why do you keep doing this shit to me?

why?

[Wisdom]

Mara, am I still scum?

[penguin_alien]

where's your vote penguin

Not sure about Wisdom vs. thenewearth at present. Wisdom's posting plenty without added pressure, and my take on TNE will be significantly influenced by how he starts this day off.

[Wisdom]

He started this day off already, penguin.

[penguin_alien]

Hold on, going to check that...

[Natirasha]

Don't worry, it's not very good.

VOTE: thenewearth

[penguin_alien]

...yeah, I assumed that was at the end of Day One. OK, I strongly dislike that post--he knows Wisdom was inconsistent, but still has to ISO him?

Here's my vote, macmollie:

VOTE: thenewearth

[macmollie]

This is the exact feeling I got in Hidden Temple tbh - you can't see I am town when you should be seeing it. I understand if Om, Natirasha, or whoever else has not played with before does not see it, but you should be seeing it.

if I were scum you would be dead

it really is that simple

the hidden temple paranoia is what I would expect you to do as scum. remember you giving me a pass cos I was sus of you on the heels of polygamy? it works both ways.

explain to me your town read on mantis. that is 1 thing I am having a hard time swallowing.

[Wisdom]

he knows Wisdom was inconsistent, but still has to ISO him?

THAT's what's bad? Really?

[Wisdom]

In other news, new fancy counterwagon so serra does not get scrutiny. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

[Natirasha]

In other news, new fancy counterwagon so serra does not get scrutiny. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Trust me, I won't let this day end before Serra can have his turn with you. You never did give me your thoughts on tne though.