Big Brother: HoH Mafia (We have a winner at last)

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 1.01:

Gnomeo - Minions
Minions - Titus
Toasty - BBMolla

Not Voting - Imperium, keybladewielder, Gnomeo, Bulbazak, peacebringer, blackberry, Jake from Rainbow Dash, ToastyToast, RachMarie, Toogeloo, Desperado

With 14 alive it takes 8 to elect an HoH.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-09-05 12:03:01) or by 11:00 AM on September 5th, 2013

The vote in post 8 is not counted as per Rule 5c.

[Bulbazak]

Actually - I also propose that whoever we do nominate as HoH, REVEALS who they will nominate before we go to night. That way if they have anything important or significant to discuss that they can do so. That way we don't mindlessly blindside a Cop or something without giving that person a chance to share/claim.

Actually, I disagree, as I think if everybody is actually scumhunting during the day, it should be obvious who the HoH is nominating if anyone is paying attention. If worse comes to worse, we question them about the decision the next day.

Also I want KBW up for policy lynch.

I actually agree with this.

The problem with voting with FoS's is that they aren't actually pressure votes. No one really gives two fucks about being FoS'd. And since it's ultimately on the HoH to choose people for lynching, how do we constrain discussion to just two members for the HoH to put up, but also pressure other players for discussion, tells, and connections?

I normally don't use FoS's, but seeing as we don't have votes in this game, we need something to hold a similar place in the grand scheme of scumhunting, and we have that already: the FoS. Essentially, I'm only going to FoS people in this game that I would vote in a normal game of mafia, which means that my FoS's should be considered in much a same way as a vote. If someone I FoS'd is nominated, and those concerns that they were FoS'd for were not addressed, I will vote that person in a heartbeat.

Also, why is Minions town?

Vote Jake from Rainbowdash

[Titus]

Bulbazak, if it is obvious, then there is no harm in confirming.

[Bulbazak]

Bulbazak, if it is obvious, then there is no harm in confirming.

It is mainly a form of peer pressure, and we need the HoH to be able to make a decision that is for the good of the town, NOT what town wants. For that, they need to keep exactly who is going up a secret. It will be obvious if we are scumhunting who the HoH suspects, but there will be others who will be trying to influence the HoH, or even threatening them. We need to keep that to a minimum, and thus, we need to let the nominations fall where they do. In the meantime, we should actually hunt for scum and make them easier to identify, thus making the HoH's job easier.

[BBmolla]

Can we not do theory talk, it's boring and unhelpful

Just choose a HoH and then decide who to lynch before they choose the two, it's not that hard.

[Titus]

Bulbazak, if it is obvious, then there is no harm in confirming.

It is mainly a form of peer pressure, and we need the HoH to be able to make a decision that is for the good of the town, NOT what town wants. For that, they need to keep exactly who is going up a secret. It will be obvious if we are scumhunting who the HoH suspects, but there will be others who will be trying to influence the HoH, or even threatening them. We need to keep that to a minimum, and thus, we need to let the nominations fall where they do. In the meantime, we should actually hunt for scum and make them easier to identify, thus making the HoH's job easier.

We should give a heads up to who is being nominated. If I was HoH, I might make a nomination based on a theory that the player could only be one possible role. The target claims that role, that would cause the HoH to change their theory.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Certainly you mean alignment right not role right? Why would you nominate to evict based on a player's role

[Titus]

No. If I know that a player is a particular role, or they are scum, I might nominate to get a claim, especially if the role is very infrequent.

Obviously, I'd nominate scum suspects.

[Toogeloo]

Also, why is Minions town?

The vote slip. Granted it could be fake, but just a feeling that the Mafia team wouldn't make that slip unintentionally.

Something else kind of bugging me at the moment. Does the Mafia faction have killing power? If they do, and they also control HoH, then they can make short work of town fairly quickly. If they don't have a kill, then we get into stickiness of whether it's more than 4 mafia. If it's more than 4 Mafia, then they can control the votes fairly quickly, and we will have a lot more people to chew through to win.

[Titus]

Toogeloo, I thought it was pretty clear that they had four mafia. It wouldn't surprise me if there's no killing role and this just plays like big brother but with a secret hidden alliance. Given the at least strong hint of four mafia, giving them a killing role would be OP. 4 mafia in a group of 13 sounds about right. It wouldn't surprise me if the mafia had something to do with the PoV as that has not been mentioned yet.

[Bulbazak]

Also, why is Minions town?

The vote slip. Granted it could be fake, but just a feeling that the Mafia team wouldn't make that slip unintentionally.

Then why keep his vote on the same random person? That's incredible trust given to someone random so early in the game. For all they knew, Gnomeo could have been scum. The town reaction would have been to unvote immediately to lessen the chance of HoH falling into the wrong hands, but they don't. They keep their vote for HoH on someone they picked randomly. As of yet, they haven't explained this, even though I've asked them to.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Where did it say 4 mafia?

[Bulbazak]

Four houseguests have been given special gifts that will separate them from the rest. The job for the rest of you is to eliminate those four.

[Toogeloo]

Ah, yeah, I don't read flavor unless it's big and bold, or unless the host is like chkflp or someone who almost requires flavor reading to aid in hunting scum.

[Toogeloo]

Then why keep his vote on the same random person? That's incredible trust given to someone random so early in the game. For all they knew, Gnomeo could have been scum. The town reaction would have been to unvote immediately to lessen the chance of HoH falling into the wrong hands, but they don't. They keep their vote for HoH on someone they picked randomly. As of yet, they haven't explained this, even though I've asked them to.

Doesn't really change my read of the slot just because he didn't unvote. We aren't really in any danger of nominating an HoH yet, and Minions is the only player thus far to actually participate in what would normally be the RVS.

[Titus]

Toogeloo, I actually have participated in what is traditionally the RVS. No one else has laid a vote down at all towards randomly suggesting an eviction nominee. I STRONGLY suggest that we start moving in that direction.

[ToastyToast]

So basically:

We're a group of 14.
Four of us are in an "Alliance" (the mafia).

How I picture this playing out:

All votes for eviction will be private. I propose the next day everyone reveals who they voted for. Everyone must reveal. If there is a discrepancy we will then know Mafia has to do with the discrepancy. Everyone outing their votes will force mafia to WIFOM themselves as to whether to vote together or split their votes, etc. Although I don't know how useful this will be and/or what powers the Mafia may have up their sleeves? .

I agree with this 100%.
Also, Blackberry--we are not in a counter-scum alliance whether you like it or not.

I think we should set a general rule that the same person does not get to be HoH two times in a row. That way we eliminate the risk of handing over all the power to scum time and time again.

@Everyone: Why should we vote you to be HoH?

Vote for me if you think it will lead to a scum lynch. I don't plan on doing any "its what the house wants" BS like in the actual game (excuse me if I roleplay a bit I like this theme to much). I'm going to put up the person I think is most likely scum and I will probably put up a pawn next to them.

I don't know if I want to be HoH *YET* - I feel like it would be hard to gauge who is actually mafia simply by who people are voting to nominate AS HoH (quite frankly, I am weighing heavily my HoH proposal in my decision, and I don't want to nominate wrong and then not be considered for HoH later in the future if I strongly feel I want it).

This will

always

be a risk though. Don't be a floater.

that being said, I don't trust toasty so I won't vote to nominate him.

luv you too, boo

I'm not really a fan of the fact that multiple people are trying to lead us right away on page 1. I think most of what's been said about how to play should be fairly common knowledge, and unfortunately with everyone coming in trying to direct us, it took away my chance to read town players who weren't paying attention. I find it more likely for Mafia to want to be leaders in this particular game btw.

The problem with voting with FoS's is that they aren't actually pressure votes. No one really gives two fucks about being FoS'd. And since it's ultimately on the HoH to choose people for lynching, how do we constrain discussion to just two members for the HoH to put up, but also pressure other players for discussion, tells, and connections?


Minions is the only player I think might be town at this moment.

Well the flavor of the game is going to cause that. In a normal mafia game, everyone has the same amount of power, but here it works a bit different because people have to show off who they trust.

Agree on FoS thing.

Bulbazak, if it is obvious, then there is no harm in confirming.

It is mainly a form of peer pressure, and we need the HoH to be able to make a decision that is for the good of the town, NOT what town wants.

Ie, see big brother 15

I currently trust bulby here so

Vote: bulbazak

[Toogeloo]

Oddly enough, Bulbazak is probably the one player I trust least.

@Minions: Why do you not care who you are nominating for HoH? That's something awfully important that you're being so nonchalant about.

@Everyone: Why should we vote you to be HoH?

I don't like either of these questions. Minions was obviously in RVS where being nonchalant is perfectly fine, and the second question is just pointless fluff that will be determined in due course.

It is mainly a form of peer pressure, and we need the HoH to be able to make a decision that is for the good of the town, NOT what town wants.

This allows any HoH to abdicate any responsibility what so ever. Town collective wants Players A and B to be nominated, instead HoH nominates Players X and Y "for town's own good," and to clear off the "peer pressure." Scum HoH can get out of putting up scummy players and instead put up whoever they want with whatever fabricated reasoning they want.

[Bulbazak]

Minions was obviously in RVS where being nonchalant is perfectly fine

Except RVS is completely useless in this setup, instead of somewhat useless, making what Minions did fluff and suspect.

and the second question is just pointless fluff that will be determined in due course.

I was trying RQS to get the game started. RQS is much better suited for this setup than RVS.

It is mainly a form of peer pressure, and we need the HoH to be able to make a decision that is for the good of the town, NOT what town wants.

This allows any HoH to abdicate any responsibility what so ever. Town collective wants Players A and B to be nominated, instead HoH nominates Players X and Y "for town's own good," and to clear off the "peer pressure." Scum HoH can get out of putting up scummy players and instead put up whoever they want with whatever fabricated reasoning they want.

Or scum could lead town by the nose, and any HoH that could throw a wrench in their plan cannot, because otherwise they are seen as anti-town for trying to find scum outside of the tiny box that was given them.

[Desperado]

Vote: Jake from Rainbowdash

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

well so far I like toasty's post so maybe there is hope for him, but it's probably cause he likes the show. don't mind me if I talk about the show during the game lol

hi desp, thanks for the vote, but don't think I haven't forgotten your day 1 hammer lol

[Titus]

Desperado, why do you trust Jake from Rainbow Dash? Leaving a vote and then going isn't something that should happen in this setup.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Disagreeing with you does not make me scum. Sorry. That's a faulty reason for suggesting I am scum. We want HoH's who are right. Scum can manipulate popular opinion. They cannot manipulate the truth. I'll always vote for the smart townie for HoH over the popular townie.

You are wrong on both accounts.

The correct move is not to nominate the smart or popular slot. The correct move is to nominate the slot that will put the who we want lynched up. That might be the smart one, the popular one, or the one everypony hates (guess who is making this post) but that's who we nominate.

The more ability we have to control the lynch the better. This game appears to just be a nightless with an odd voting mechanic, and given the way its balancing, mod is counting pretty heavily on us acting in a deliberately anti-town manner during the HoH phase. We figure out who we want lynched A and B, we nominate somepony for HoH, they put up A and B. When you start trying to put up others you are going to give scum ALL the room in the world to just lynch town.

Lets say we are putting up A (scum) and B (town). Its a close vote, but the HoH decides "I think B is town" so they put up A and C (also town) instead. Now scum can just jump on C pretty easily. Maybe they thought it came from a result, maybe when they looked back and thought more they had reason to change, all accountability is gone. We need accountability in this game more than anything else. Give scum no room and this looks like one of those games that is massively balanced in our favor.

Desperado, why do you trust Jake from Rainbow Dash? Leaving a vote and then going isn't something that should happen in this setup.

You have your vote left out? Why are you just leaving your vote and then going?

FoS Titus

We will never vote Titus HoH under any reasons for his posts today. He has proven he is at best town who is willing to play intentionally anti-town.

I want him or KBW out. Titus is pushing hard to defeat plans that make players accountable for their actions. At the same time he is complaining about lack of scumhunting, while not doing any of his own, and for that matter ignoring the elephant in the room that is me saying Iwant a policy lynched KBW.

I propose the following

We have three week deadlines. At the end of 14 days, we have a rolling FoS count. Two with most are "lynched", only "votes" on those two count and we have a week to figure out who is lynched between the two of them. Then its night, we all follow and vote who we said, and claim the votes the next day just to be sure we have it all wrapped up.

[Desperado]

well so far I like toasty's post so maybe there is hope for him, but it's probably cause he likes the show. don't mind me if I talk about the show during the game lol

hi desp, thanks for the vote, but don't think I haven't forgotten your day 1 hammer lol

My bad.

@ Titus: Read the message Dash relayed. They're town.

Pedit: Or that one.

[Bulbazak]

RBD, I don't want a HoH that's tied to a little box, simply because scum can manipulate town opinion, and they can easily drive the town and the game with the A/B nomination method. By all means, let's suggest people to be nominated for the nightly lynch, but let's not bind the HoH to only the popular opinions. When I'm voting for a HoH, I'm voting for someone in the town that I can trust to make that tough decision for the betterment of the town

by themselves.

And there will be plenty of accountability, since we can still say who we voted for on the following day, and we should be questioned on those choices and have to defend them. Thus, the voting and nomination becomes less paint by numbers and more a method for scumhunting.