Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[nickthename]

VOTE: unvote

[BROseidon]

2519 is to BnB

I work with my town reads. sound was town reading rach, I however was not but I was willing to work them on someone we were reading as scum. that is how teamwork

works

. andy town telled. we went back on rach. that is what happened.

that you are trying to paint this as scummy is laughable and downright ridiculous.

Discrediting not through counterpoint but through AtE.

the other person whom you think is scum?

are you for realz coming at me with this weak shit?

you can talk about derails until the fucking cows comes but the truth is I had no way of rach's alignment and I had very strong town read and the other head of this hydra saying she was town. I had to compromise somewhere. period. end of story.

No attempt to understand what my argument actually was.

it makes sense from your viewpoint cos you are scum. if you had spent the better part of the d1 engaging with people you would actually know what was going on. but you didn't and if you think you can waltz in to this day round after your main antagonist is dead and push really shitty cases you are wrong.

Aggressive tone.

Nacho: Refer to above image. I'm thinking 50-65% chance.

The main issue I'm having is that I read through everything last night, and it felt like you were not pushing for Rach nearly as hard as town-you normally would. The fact that you townread her early stuck with me MORE than the fact that you were on the wagon and supporting it in the end; I attribute the Rach push to

Muffin/Thez/Desp

. Not to you.

That's not what I'd expect from you.

There's also the whole issue of your interactions with Venmar, who had disgusting interactions with Rach.

Maybe a Venmar lynch first would be good...

lol.

Outright dismissal.

Here’s the problem I’m having right now with how your engaging with me. You’re not just being aggressive, you’re also being a bit mean (and I admit that I’m not being particularly nice back). Being on the receiving end of it feels less like you think I’m scum and want me lynched, and more like you think I’m scum, want me lynched, and want me to feel bad about it.

Also:

I have been engaging you. what you are providing is a shitty case, a bunch of sledge that tbh breaks my fucking heart and as strong of a confbias as you are accusing me of. I am following up on a dead town's read.

You have nowhere articulated any scum-motivation why my case is shitty, though. All you’ve done is said “your case is bad. SCUM!” Town get things wrong. I think TD’s completely off the mark; doesn’t mean I think he’s scum. Everything you’ve said is positional; none of it actually talks about interests.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Oh, I just figured you were.

who were you talking to here?

[BROseidon]

That nick vote into unvote is awkward as fuck, btw.

[BROseidon]

Skull has a fairly small opus of games iirc.

I only need three transparent town games in order to form a good town baseline, sometimes only two. Skull is one of those transparent town people.

I feel like this is dangerous logic, btw.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Here’s the problem I’m having right now with how your engaging with me. You’re not just being aggressive, you’re also being a bit mean (and I admit that I’m not being particularly nice back). Being on the receiving end of it feels less like you think I’m scum and want me lynched, and more like you think I’m scum, want me lynched, and want me to feel bad about it.

do you feel bad about it?

You have nowhere articulated any scum-motivation why my case is shitty, though. All you’ve done is said “your case is bad. SCUM!” Town get things wrong. I think TD’s completely off the mark; doesn’t mean I think he’s scum. Everything you’ve said is positional; none of it actually talks about interests.

I did articulate why I thought your case was scum motivated. like several times.

when you say "positional" and "interests", could you elaborate so that I am on the same page with what you are saying?

[Nachomamma8]

Skull has a fairly small opus of games iirc.

I only need three transparent town games in order to form a good town baseline, sometimes only two. Skull is one of those transparent town people.

I feel like this is dangerous logic, btw.

it's worked for 4 years.
i probably won't be refining a basic principal any time soon.

[BROseidon]

Here’s the problem I’m having right now with how your engaging with me. You’re not just being aggressive, you’re also being a bit mean (and I admit that I’m not being particularly nice back). Being on the receiving end of it feels less like you think I’m scum and want me lynched, and more like you think I’m scum, want me lynched, and want me to feel bad about it.

do you feel bad about it?

You have nowhere articulated any scum-motivation why my case is shitty, though. All you’ve done is said “your case is bad. SCUM!” Town get things wrong. I think TD’s completely off the mark; doesn’t mean I think he’s scum. Everything you’ve said is positional; none of it actually talks about interests.

I did articulate why I thought your case was scum motivated. like several times.

when you say "positional" and "interests", could you elaborate so that I am on the same page with what you are saying?

1) Yes, I feel bad. I shouldn't have made that comment.

2) Re-articulate the scum-motivation, because I am recalling 0 of it beyond "you are pushing for bad lynches" (which is weak considering that town do that by virtue of being wrong).

3) Eh, sorry for using business-ey terms, comes with dating a consultant >.>

Position roughly equates to the what. It's basically the face-value of what people say in thread. Ie BnB thinks Bro is scum is a position. Bro thinks one of BnB/Nick is scum is a position. Interest roughly equates to why. At a high level, town interest breaks down into finding scum and finding other town. Scum interest is gaining a majority. The entire game of mafia is really predicated around using people's positions and phrasings to try to figure out their interests.

[Mac]

its pretty clear rach is scum vars

VOTE: Rach


i trusted you to have better judgement smh

i did not like this post from ftl hydra.

but then again ms was calling rach scum all game whilst varsoon preached that she was null. he only sorta fell that way when nacho convinced him but even then didn't vote.

vote: Mala

^ interactions with rach. didn't particularly push rach as town until later, instead using the "she does this as either alignment" argument which is nonsense, or else we wouldn't have been able to nail her as scum.

[Mac]

not liking bro either

[Mac]

That nick vote into unvote is awkward as fuck, btw.

what is awkward about it?

[Trust Fund]

That nick vote into unvote is awkward as fuck, btw.

what is awkward about it?

He tried to setup a 1v1 of me/bro based upon my role claim without knowing exactly what it is, or accounting for the chance of a block/redirect/whatever. If bro is town, then it was essentially setting up TWO free mislynches.

[Trust Fund]

That nick vote into unvote is awkward as fuck, btw.

what is awkward about it?

He tried to setup a 1v1 of me/bro based upon my role claim without knowing exactly what it is, or accounting for the chance of a block/redirect/whatever. If bro is town, then it was essentially setting up TWO free mislynches.

And then when it is pointed out to him that a RB or block is possible he immediately backs off.

[BROseidon]

Cabd let me answer questions directed to me >:C

Also going to look something up quickly brb.

[Malakittens]

its pretty clear rach is scum vars

VOTE: Rach


i trusted you to have better judgement smh

i did not like this post from ftl hydra.

but then again ms was calling rach scum all game whilst varsoon preached that she was null. he only sorta fell that way when nacho convinced him but even then didn't vote.

vote: Mala

^ interactions with rach. didn't particularly push rach as town until later, instead using the "she does this as either alignment" argument which is nonsense, or else we wouldn't have been able to nail her as scum.

Please do point where I called her town once as I didn't. I felt everyone was trying to PL her. She does do that at either alignment, but it's okay everyone will get a free skate because this time everyone was able to catch her while scum doing it.

~

Bro is basically sheeping AJ and trying to get others to follow him. -_-

I have to look at Bro's list, but I feel like some of the reads are either OMGUSY-worthy or just blech on Bro's part. Least he can do is explain some of them.

[BROseidon]

Got it:

Nick never calls me scum at all day 1, then this weird thing with TF happens and he's voting on me. That lack of trajectory contributes to the awkwardness (y'know, in addition to what Cabd said)

[Mac]

Herro scum cw. Rach is town and Andy is scum, tyvm.

i think you said it here?

amirite?

[Mac]

not one single person was trying to policy lynch rach. you are just flat out bullshitting now mala.

moar mala votes plz

[Mac]

Got it:

Nick never calls me scum at all day 1, then this weird thing with TF happens and he's voting on me. That lack of trajectory contributes to the awkwardness (y'know, in addition to what Cabd said)

you can see where his thoughts came from though.

cabd had the same thoughts as him, just without voting nor saying.

[Mac]

also funny story time, i actually thought you meant nick putting vote: unvote was awkward

facepalm

[BROseidon]

I have to look at Bro's list, but I feel like some of the reads are either OMGUSY-worthy or just blech on Bro's part. Least he can do is explain some of them.

I did. When I was reading yesterday, a Rach/Nacho/SOS/BnBorNick/Mala team made a lot of sense based on interactions within the group. Now that SoS has flipped town, I'm rethinking parts of the theory. Shoving Venmar in still makes some degree of sense, but it's not as cohesive.

Nacho did well discussing why he had the position he did re: Rach– I'm probably not going to pursue Nacho anymore today; he's in the reserve for alternative narratives. Venmar's approach to the Rach wagon was still particularly horrible, and you've been pretty bad all game. Complaining that people wanted to PL Rach to derail her lynch when she's scum is bad both in this game specifically and at a meta level (rewarding Rach's scum game because she doesn't engage as town is not behavior that we should be encouraging). In this game, Rach was distinctly doing things that were scummy AND FIT HER SCUM META. That's key. Other people picked up on the fact that Rach was playing TO HER SCUM META, but you tried to push it as "oh no this is just a PL."

Nick's awkward jump onto and then off of my wagon makes me want to go to a scumgroup of Rach/Ven/Mala/Nick for now, and work out from there to find any other scum. Ugh, wish I had time to quad-ISO (also fuck this site for only being able to run 3 ISOs in a single tab).

[BROseidon]

Mac: the difference is that Cabd considered the same things I did (and that I posted in thread). A number of things could have happened to fuck with the results. Nick ignores that possibility that other PRs fucked with things and tried to set up a lynch off it, despite the fact that we'd talked about it in thread. That's a weak position with a scum interest.

Also, what do you think with my interactions with Mala (and nhammen)?

[Mac]

yeah i see what you mean. he was pretty irrational and that's not particularly in the town's interests.

are you asking me to look at your interactions with mala and nhammen? cos I'm not really sure what you mean

[Trust Fund]

Also, I lied. So there's that~

[BROseidon]

are you asking me to look at your interactions with mala and nhammen? cos I'm not really sure what you mean

Yes.