Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Mac]

mollie why are you still voting bro?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

votecount

Spoiler:

[8] TiphaineDeath (Venmar, zMuffinMan, nickthename, BeautyAndTheBeast, Mac, Ghostlin, Faster Than Light, Trust Fund)

[5] Faster Than Light (thezmon221, Malakittens, Skullduggery, TiphaineDeath, nickthename)

[6] mastin2 (Venmar, Trust Fund, BROseidon, nickthename, TiphaineDeath, Skullduggery)

[7] Andrius (BeautyAndTheBeast, Sound of Silence, notscience, Trust Fund, Malakittens, RachMarie, Mac)
[7] RachMarie (zMuffinMan, Andrius, Desperado, Faster Than Light, thezmon221, TiphaineDeath, Aj The Epic)
[4] mastin2 (Venmar, BROseidon, nickthename, Skullduggery)

[5] RachMarie (zMuffinMan, Andrius, Desperado, Aj The Epic, Nachomamma8)
[4] Andrius (Trust Fund, Malakittens, RachMarie, Faster Than Light)
[3] mastin2 (BROseidon, nickthename, TiphaineDeath)
[3] nickthename (mastin2, notscience, BeautyAndTheBeast)

[7] RachMarie (zMuffinMan, Andrius, Desperado, Aj The Epic, Nachomamma8, TiphaineDeath, Ghostlin)
[5] nickthename (mastin2, notscience, BeautyAndTheBeast, Faster Than Light, Mutleyddmc)
[3] Andrius (Trust Fund, Malakittens, RachMarie)

[9] RachMarie (zMuffinMan, Desperado, Nachomamma8, Ghostlin, BeautyAndTheBeast, Aj The Epic, Sound of Silence, Andrius, Trust Fund)
[4] Andrius (Malakittens, RachMarie, Faster Than Light, TiphaineDeath)
[3] nickthename (mastin2, Mutleyddmc, notscience)

just putting this here so i can ctrl+f my iso and find the important d1 wagons to look at later

he was on to mala all day what are you talking about

he was talking about a mala/rach scum team for a lot of D1 and swapped to rach relatively late.

if there was bussing on the rach wagon when it was stalling, he would be my first guess.

if that were the case then that would probably make mala town. how does that fit in your worldview <-----sincere question btw I really want to know what you think.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

mollie why are you still voting bro?

why are you asking me this question?

we have a hydra together, you don't move my vote until I feel like it. I don't feel like it at the mo.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

* you know I don't move

[Mac]

mollie why are you still voting bro?

why are you asking me this question?

we have a hydra together, you don't move my vote until I feel like it. I don't feel like it at the mo.

there have been developments since you voted him. has your stance on him changed?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

mollie why are you still voting bro?

why are you asking me this question?

we have a hydra together, you don't move my vote until I feel like it. I don't feel like it at the mo.

there have been developments since you voted him. has your stance on him changed?

I think he is a despicable asshole and he makes me wish I really just dropped out of the game when fery pulled her bullshit.

does that count?

[Mutleyddmc]

mutley should shoot venmar tonight. that gets rid of two of my problems.

Cool story but if you read I BLEW MY LOAD

[Mac]

not what I was looking for, but we can talk when you're not mad.

[zMuffinMan]

how does that fit in your worldview

I don't know. I haven't thought about it much, yet. I don't think all three of {RM, mala, AJ} make sense together as scum, unless AJ was doing some serious distancing D1 (it's not something I'm currently ruling out).

So. I don't know. It's something that I'll revisit if we lynch one of them and they flip scum. I'm not all that concerned with it at the moment.

there have been developments since you voted him.

ftr, I'm still voting BRO. I'll move my vote when I see a good reason to move it to someone else.

Anyway. Going to read mala/nick/AJ ISOs in a bit.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

not what I was looking for, but we can talk when you're not mad.

if you think it is anger I feel then you don't know me as well as I thought you did.

look at what he is doing. he is going after us for derailing the rach lynch. we went after nick cos we were scum reading him and we still are. he is to trying imply that nick must be town for some weird reason when it is not unusual to have 2 competing wagons on scum on d1. <---- that he isn't even entertaining this demonstrates that his premise is agenda driven and not scum hunting.

I am somewhat scum reading mala for a similar reason. I think nick, mala and bro might all be scum.

[Aj The Epic]

so i'm not lynching the following today: andrius, bnb, desperado, ftl, ghostlin, mac, mastin, nacho, TD

and i apparently can't lynch the following because they claimed vig or some bullshit actions last night which don't really confirm them but people are giving them a free pass anyway: bro, mutley, trust fund

and so i'm left with: aj, mala, nick, venmar

and anyone else i may have left out

I swapped when Mastin and Thez said they wanted Rach first. If you read through my iso and perhaps did some looking instead of relying on vote counts, you'd notice two things: No one wanted Mala lynched, and I didn't change to Rach until Mastin and Thezmon made a case. When Mala tied herself to Rach by calling Thezmon's case bad, I then voted Rach saying that I could prove Mala was scum if Rach flipped scum. Therefore, by Rach flipping scum, I've only advanced my own case on Mala.

[zMuffinMan]

No one wanted Mala lynched, and I didn't change to Rach until Mastin and Thezmon made a case.

Mastin didn't make a case, unless you count him saying "nacho scum = rach scum!"

thezmon's case was practically a rehash of what desperado and I had been saying about her for the 20 pages prior to that.

When Mala tied herself to Rach by calling Thezmon's case bad, I then voted Rach saying that I could prove Mala was scum if Rach flipped scum.

Yes. That is generally the point I was making in 2724.

[Aj The Epic]

not what I was looking for, but we can talk when you're not mad.

if you think it is anger I feel then you don't know me as well as I thought you did.

look at what he is doing. he is going after us for derailing the rach lynch. we went after nick cos we were scum reading him and we still are. he is to trying imply that nick must be town for some weird reason when it is not unusual to have 2 competing wagons on scum on d1. <---- that he isn't even entertaining this demonstrates that his premise is agenda driven and not scum hunting.

I am somewhat scum reading mala for a similar reason. I think nick, mala and bro might all be scum.

As I said earlier to Mastin, so far I'm looking for scum who have dropped a great deal of association tells. Unfortunately, I don't believe Nick has really dropped any which makes him different from the rest of everyone else who I'm looking at. I have Nick as a scum lean, someone to invest a lot of time later when I've gotten rid of Mala. But bro, on the other hand, I don't see any reason to lynch him other than he's bothering you for all the wrong reasons.

To be perfectly honest, when Mala flips scum, I think I'd almost prefer to look at Venmar more. I read his iso yesterday and I believe he had some comments about Mala and Rach that made me grind my teeth a bit. If you help me lynch Mala, however, I'll definitely strongly consider going after Nick. Unfortunately, Mala got away from me the last time I knew she was scum and I'm not willing to let her try to change my read on her.


P-edit:

1.Mastin didn't make a case, but we had a talk about association. Yes, he's the one who voiced a thought I had been sitting on (as I showed later) that Nacho had some interesting thoughts about Rach. Thezmon, however, made a solid case that was more important to me in Mala's reaction to it. I never said it was fantastically worded and original, but Mala dismissed it completely saying we were out to policy lynch Rach. This is more than enough to convince me she's protecting her scumbuddy.

2. And you have a problem with this line of logic? I've yet to see anyone dispute it.

[zMuffinMan]

This is more than enough to convince me she's protecting her scumbuddy.

As opposed to the 15 other people who are town for doing the same thing, right?

Because it's not like the fucking arguments that desperado and I were making were dismissed by almost everybody for similar reasons.

Question: Why do you think mala would be so blatant in protecting deadweight that was bound to be lynched at some point anyway, if not on D1?

This is what I'm trying to figure out right now.

2. And you have a problem with this line of logic? I've yet to see anyone dispute it.

I'm saying the timing of it is convenient for a bus on a wagon I think is otherwise likely to be all town.

It's possible you're also town. But I'm not picking up on town cues in your posts that everyone else seems to be picking up on, and I could reasonably see your interactions with RM D1 as distancing until the point you realised RM was a viable wagon and you wanted to be a part of it if it went through.

*shrug* If I had a brilliant case against you, it would be more than simply a paranoid suspicion. I'm considering possibilities right now.

[Aj The Epic]

Question: Why do you think mala would be so blatant in protecting deadweight that was bound to be lynched at some point anyway, if not on D1?

Because I think Mala felt that I'd eventually get her lynch and the team might've considered her the deadweight. Therefore, if she could protect a buddy and just stall out to have an andrius lynch go through, she might be able to protect Rach from being pressured on day 2 calling both wagons town. At the time, the Rach wagon was more or less composed of people the hydras (Aka generally town leaders) considered null to lean town while Andrius had most of the standard cast of characters on it. There was a strong chance to save Rach from being lynched and in fact, she almost got it until BnB switched their vote back.

Let me ask you: Had Andrius flipped (which is a flip that is almost certain to be town now), would you go back to Rach and immediately try to lynch her?

But show me such a blatant dismissal of a case where someone looks at it and goes "So you're policy lynching Rach?". This is so key in why I see buddying there. "Ignoring" isn't even the right word at that point. People ignore cases by simply not responding or acting on it. This is the simple truth of what happens to people who right of longer posts. But if you think you can show me a dismissal that's anywhere near as bad as the one Mala had, I'd be more than happy to look into that person's iso/interactions thus far.

[zMuffinMan]

Because I think Mala felt that I'd eventually get her lynch

Even if mala is scum, I do not think she felt much in the way of pressure from your suspicion of her.

Therefore, if she could protect a buddy and just stall out to have an andrius lynch go through, she might be able to protect Rach from being pressured on day 2 calling both wagons town.

...

There was a strong chance to save Rach from being lynched and in fact, she almost got it until BnB switched their vote back.

Interestingly, this didn't make me feel any better about you. I will go back and find the post I'm talking about here.

Let me ask you: Had Andrius flipped (which is a flip that is almost certain to be town now), would you go back to Rach and immediately try to lynch her?

No, I think I would have given up on a lynch I spent 75 pages pushing. That seems like the only reasonable course of action.

But show me such a blatant dismissal of a case where someone looks at it and goes "So you're policy lynching Rach?"

EVERY
FUCKING
PERSON
NOT
ON
THE
RM
WAGON
DID
THIS

[zMuffinMan]

2331 and 2333 were two posts from you that I didn't like at the end of D1

granted it was getting close to the deadline and i could reasonably see you doing this as town because it's better than a no lynch, but I didn't like the stuff you were saying about the wagons, and this was at a time where people opposing the RM wagon were reconsidering their RM read

[Faster Than Light]

hi this is MS sorry I havent been posting very busy these days

I don't agree with mala wagon because mala is cute <3

btw vars, andy lynch is bad i think he is town because rach flipped scum

nick is a great lynch though!


Happy birthday bork!


I also think that TF's gambit is bullshit/bad

mutley <3 ns <3 i love tip and orc too

sorry saki I've never played played with you before!

ok thats about all i read up till here

[Aj The Epic]

But show me such a blatant dismissal of a case where someone looks at it and goes "So you're policy lynching Rach?"

EVERY
FUCKING
PERSON
NOT
ON
THE
RM
WAGON
DID
THIS

Specific instances help a bit.

Obviously I shifted my vote to andrius when there was no help. We had about 15 hours to deadline max and I was going to bed soon. There wasn't much time for me to make a final decision.

As for mala not feeling pressure, she was generally yelling at me for pressuring her. I doubt she figured I alone could do it (I can't, not enough votes), but I will get her lynched. Maybe she figured this. Have you seen Mala play as mafia before to know if she defends her scum buddies or not?

[BROseidon]

look at what he is doing. he is going after us for derailing the rach lynch. we went after nick cos we were scum reading him and we still are. he is to trying imply that nick must be town for some weird reason when it is not unusual to have 2 competing wagons on scum on d1. <---- that he isn't even entertaining this demonstrates that his premise is agenda driven and not scum hunting.

Nick's awkward jump onto and then off of my wagon makes me want to go to a scumgroup of Rach/Ven/Mala/Nick for now, and work out from there to find any other scum. Ugh, wish I had time to quad-ISO (also fuck this site for only being able to run 3 ISOs in a single tab).

My entire tiff with Jiffy didn't change this. I'm still leaning towards Nickscum.

Now can you stop attacking me ad hominem because I got frustrated with you and made a snide remark? I crossed a line that I shouldn't have, and I've apologized multiple times. I'm not sure what more you want from me.

[50 Shades of Purple]

@ muffin

get we have an understanding here? I didn't dismiss either of yours or desp's case. did you see the 1 I had early in the game? rach made 2 really bad slips and I said she looked like she was dipped in baby oil. but sound had a

strong

town read on rach (it was mostly on guy's end) so i dropped it and started treating her as town.

there are a handful of players that I will defer my reads to. the sound hydra is 1 of them. but when andy started doing what looked like town flail and I noticed rach was conveniently fading into the background but was posting on other parts of the site and this was going on for

days

I was like on no, she is scum. I thought I was gonna have to fight sound on it and was relieved that I didn't have to.

you are my rock right now. somewhere along the line I have decided I like you so I will be clinging to you like a burr. don't let that freak you out or anything cos that is just the way I am when I am feeling uncertain.

I a meta reading aj as town right now cos so far my experience with him has been that when he is town he is not afraid to pursue weird tangents and he is not afraid of how he looks. I can see why the timing of his looked like a bus but I see as more of a null tell. he is a weak town read and I would like to look elsewhere, I think for now at least. if you want to tag team him later I will help you with that.

@ aj

no, I do not want bro lynched cos I don't like him, I don't play that way. that you are dismissing my read on him is a cheap misrep. you lose town points for that.

I want bro lynched cos of his avoiding this game like a contagious disease while posting elsewhere on the site on d1. he looked nervous and uncomfortable the entire d1 round and yet comes blazing in here on d2 when the very vt person who was going to go after him is dead when there specials practically building billboards to announce that they were special. he then tries to accuse us of being scum when anybody with half a brain could see that we are town and that we fully intended on going after bro today since we promised the dead player that we would indeed, go after him.

* d1 thread avoidance when pressure was applied
* dead player who was wanting his blood and he was obviously afraid of
* terrible terrible read up of the thread
* shitty case on us
* fery's read

those are good enough reasons for me.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

@ muffin

get we have an understanding here? I didn't dismiss either of yours or desp's case. did you see the 1 I had early in the game? rach made 2 really bad slips and I said she looked like she was dipped in baby oil. but sound had a

strong

town read on rach (it was mostly on guy's end) so i dropped it and started treating her as town.

there are a handful of players that I will defer my reads to. the sound hydra is 1 of them. but when andy started doing what looked like town flail and I noticed rach was conveniently fading into the background but was posting on other parts of the site and this was going on for

days

I was like on no, she is scum. I thought I was gonna have to fight sound on it and was relieved that I didn't have to.

you are my rock right now. somewhere along the line I have decided I like you so I will be clinging to you like a burr. don't let that freak you out or anything cos that is just the way I am when I am feeling uncertain.

I a meta reading aj as town right now cos so far my experience with him has been that when he is town he is not afraid to pursue weird tangents and he is not afraid of how he looks. I can see why the timing of his looked like a bus but I see as more of a null tell. he is a weak town read and I would like to look elsewhere, I think for now at least. if you want to tag team him later I will help you with that.

@ aj

no, I do not want bro lynched cos I don't like him, I don't play that way. that you are dismissing my read on him is a cheap misrep. you lose town points for that.

I want bro lynched cos of his avoiding this game like a contagious disease while posting elsewhere on the site on d1. he looked nervous and uncomfortable the entire d1 round and yet comes blazing in here on d2 when the very vt person who was going to go after him is dead when there specials practically building billboards to announce that they were special. he then tries to accuse us of being scum when anybody with half a brain could see that we are town and that we fully intended on going after bro today since we promised the dead player that we would indeed, go after him.

* d1 thread avoidance when pressure was applied
* dead player who was wanting his blood and he was obviously afraid of
* terrible terrible read up of the thread
* shitty case on us
* fery's read

those are good enough reasons for me.

my user title really ought to be worst hydra slips ever

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

look at what he is doing. he is going after us for derailing the rach lynch. we went after nick cos we were scum reading him and we still are. he is to trying imply that nick must be town for some weird reason when it is not unusual to have 2 competing wagons on scum on d1. <---- that he isn't even entertaining this demonstrates that his premise is agenda driven and not scum hunting.

Nick's awkward jump onto and then off of my wagon makes me want to go to a scumgroup of Rach/Ven/Mala/Nick for now, and work out from there to find any other scum. Ugh, wish I had time to quad-ISO (also fuck this site for only being able to run 3 ISOs in a single tab).

My entire tiff with Jiffy didn't change this. I'm still leaning towards Nickscum.

Now can you stop attacking me ad hominem because I got frustrated with you and made a snide remark? I crossed a line that I shouldn't have, and I've apologized multiple times. I'm not sure what more you want from me.

this will probably be the last post I respond to of yours, majiffy can deal with you.

I only remember 1 apology, not that it matters.

I apologise for calling you an asshole. there is no excuse for that. and yes I will not call you any more mean names I will just think them in my head.

[BROseidon]

* d1 thread avoidance when pressure was applied
* dead player who was wanting his blood and he was obviously afraid of
* terrible terrible read up of the thread
* shitty case on us
* fery's read

Guess I'll have to talk to Jiffy about this, or whomever else wants to engage me on it:

1) SoS being dead does not make them right. Also, why would I be afraid of ffery day one but suddenly NOT be afraid of you/Nacho day 2? From that perspective, it makes far more sense that my avoidance of the thread had to do less with fear and more with laziness/time.
2) High level statements like this are impossible to refute effectively. Me saying "my readup was fine" gets us nowhere.
3) And the scum motivation is? Town make bad cases all the time.
4) ffery is not omniscient, last I checked.

[Nachomamma8]

i don't have time right now but i'm reading bro as sort of more town than before now, please leave him alone for a little while.