Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Faster Than Light]

why fuck me?

Nevermind, I got psyche'd out. Can't handle fake-outs, you dig?

Mutley, can you give a comprehensive write-up of where you stand on Nick and on Mala?

[zMuffinMan]

Get it up with me.

no thanks. i don't swing that way.

[Mutleyddmc]

why fuck me?

Nevermind, I got psyche'd out. Can't handle fake-outs, you dig?

Mutley, can you give a comprehensive write-up of where you stand on Nick and on Mala?

I'm happy for my vote of nick at the moment, but getting swayed towards mala. Let me see Nicks case first for me to decide

[Aj The Epic]

FTL: Your gambit is not going to work better than scum hunting. I think I know what you're doing here, and it's stupid regardless of flip outcomes because the logic is bad. (of course you never responded to me when I spoilered and when through your reasoning post). Secondly, Nick keeps going "I'll get that case up later" constantly. I wrote a mala case in probably 10 minutes yesterday, it was that easy. You can get just about ANY post and go with it. Why is it taking him so damn long?

Mala dies tomorrow. End of story. We've decided to lynch Nick today on BnB's judgment and they've promised to at least look at mala tomorrow (when I'll write up an up-to-date case on her IN A TIMELY FASHION) and then we'll be clear of possibly two scum. Because you know what? Your gambit is already set to clear Nick. You want so badly to clear him that you've chosen the most likely scum candidate and said "Nick's allignment is the opposite BECAUSE one is consistent and one is not and the scum team OBVIOUSLY follows one of these trends".

So look: No one wants to halt the current proceedings of actually scumhunting to go along with your three-piece gambit that involves lynching someone to clear someone else. That's not how gambits are employed, nor do you basically televise the whole gambit before starting it... Nor do you announce that you're pulling a gambit. There is an art to it, and you've yet to master it. Your idea seems so farfetched and complicated (in a bad way, not complex) that it's basically destined to fail by one overlooked issue.

You know the last time I saw a large gambit? Auntie Jemina pulled on in a game early, calling herself the town role blocker when under pressure and getting a mass claim day 1. She had a really large idea about how to overlap roles well and avoid lynching the PRs. Docs stayed unclaimed and such but you know what? Scum just picked off power roles, as planned. Duh. Jemina flipped scum in the endgame and everyone felt stupid for it. There was no way it ever would've worked in town's favor, and I voiced that, but hey. Complicated long term gambits WILL FAIL because eventually scum will know what's going on and pass through with ease. Imagine if Nacho and Nick are opposite alignments: The scum would know which is town and if he was really stuck, he'd just base his reactions off the town player, changing it slightly to be believable.

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 2.5

[9] nickthename (Nachomamma8, BROseidon, Aj The Epic, Trust Fund, notscience, BeautyAndTheBeast, Mutleyddmc, Mac, Desperado)
[4] Malakittens (Ghostlin, nickthename, mastin2, Faster Than Light)
[2] BROseidon (zMuffinMan, Malakittens)
[2] Mac (Venmar, TiphaineDeath)

[1] Not Voting (Andrius)

With 18 alive, it is 10 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-09-11 09:30:00)

[Faster Than Light]

Allow me to high-light why this is a terrible approach, AJ.

FTL: Your gambit is not going to work better than scum hunting. I think I know what you're doing here, and it's stupid regardless of flip outcomes because the logic is bad. (of course you never responded to me when I spoilered and when through your reasoning post).

Secondly, Nick keeps going "I'll get that case up later" constantly. I wrote a mala case in probably 10 minutes yesterday, it was that easy. You can get just about ANY post and go with it. Why is it taking him so damn long?

Mala dies tomorrow. End of story. We've decided to lynch Nick today on BnB's judgment and they've promised to at least look at mala tomorrow (when I'll write up an up-to-date case on her IN A TIMELY FASHION) and then we'll be clear of possibly two scum. Because you know what? Your gambit is already set to clear Nick. You want so badly to clear him that you've chosen the most likely scum candidate and said "Nick's allignment is the opposite BECAUSE one is consistent and one is not and the scum team OBVIOUSLY follows one of these trends".

So look:

No one wants to halt the current proceedings of actually scumhunting

to go along with your three-piece gambit that involves lynching someone to clear someone else. That's not how gambits are employed, nor do you basically televise the whole gambit before starting it... Nor do you announce that you're pulling a gambit.

There is an art to it, and you've yet to master it. Your idea seems so farfetched and complicated (in a bad way, not complex) that it's basically destined to fail by one overlooked issue.

You know the last time I saw a large gambit?

Auntie Jemina pulled on in a game early, calling herself the town role blocker when under pressure and getting a mass claim day 1. She had a really large idea about how to overlap roles well and avoid lynching the PRs. Docs stayed unclaimed and such but you know what? Scum just picked off power roles, as planned. Duh. Jemina flipped scum in the endgame and everyone felt stupid for it. There was no way it ever would've worked in town's favor, and I voiced that, but hey. Complicated long term gambits WILL FAIL because eventually scum will know what's going on and pass through with ease. Imagine if Nacho and Nick are opposite alignments: The scum would know which is town and if he was really stuck, he'd just base his reactions off the town player, changing it slightly to be believable.

1- Nick's busy. He'll get his Mala case done. This is a moot point. I spent over 3 hours before WRITING a case on someone. If you can't see why it's important for Nick to have a case on Mala before anyone gets lynched, you need to. No matter his alignment, it gives a point of reference.

2- I've reiterated, even in the post you reference as bad logic, that they could both be scum. The point is, my alignment doesn't fucking

CLEAR

anyone. It gives a truthful alignment tell. I'd rather get information on 3 players instead of haphazardly risk a mislynch on two in a row. Blindly fumble around and lynch Mala regardless of evidence D3? Sounds real fuckin' town, AJ. Even as a contingency plan, that's not going to give us the info we could mine out of this situation.

3- If you think, in some bizarre world, that everyone sheeping MY OWN POINTS and B&B's against Nick is actually scum hunting, you need to get your head straight. Rushing the day and pushing out this lynch was something I was dead set on, but I stopped and realized how fucking backwards that is. Sure, Nick is a top scum candidate of mine. But Mala's been sending up flags and I've figured out a way to determine THREE PLAYERS' alignments with only a lynch on one of them. That's eons better than your proposed 'scumhunting'. Also, the amount of shit that I've kicked up by doing this has produced lots of amazing reactions and things to look at when we're finally done with Mala and/or Nick, so, yeah, I think you need to take a step back and realize that

Varsoon is doing the most scum-hunting in this entire game.

4-You don't know what I'm doing. Part of this gambit is, in fact, to reveal it in such a way. See point 3, man. My gambit has already produced awesome content. And, again, I reiterate, you have no clue what I'm doing, so stop saying it won't work. Just because I don't play by the same little codes and pathways that most players do doesn't mean that what I'm capable of is less effective. Open your mind.

5- Last time is not this time, you bastard. Last time I saw a grown man wearing red, he was hitting a woman. Ergo, every time I see a grown man in red, he'll be hitting a woman/a wife beater? And you're telling me about shitty logic.


Ultimately, you're rooted in terrible meta ideas of how the game 'works', you don't know what I'm doing and have no place to say otherwise, and you think speed-lynching Nick's somehow the best plan for D2.

I've proven otherwise.

Now, please, put that vote on Mala, or do some actual scum hunting of your own.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

That should read "My gambit doesn't clear anyone" instead of "My alignment doesn't clear anyone".
Technically, both are true. :3

-V

[Faster Than Light]

We have 7 days. Let's fucking use them.

You know what makes me uncomfortable? B&B calls out 10 players on SRN but not voting him. Players then can all just hop on the wagon without having ARTICULATION for WHY, and if it turns out in a scum lynch, yattai, town points all around, but if it's a mislynch, they get to all just hide behind either pointing fingers at B&B or the smoke-screen that B&B allowed for scum to hide in that wagon.

The way it was growing, and the hydra dissonance about it, and just about everything I've pointed out, it doesn't sit right with me.

-V

[zMuffinMan]

Players then can all just hop on the wagon without having ARTICULATION for WHY, and if it turns out in a scum lynch, yattai, town points all around, but if it's a mislynch, they get to all just hide behind either pointing fingers at B&B or the smoke-screen that B&B allowed for scum to hide in that wagon.

now you're getting to something i pointed out roughly 20 pages ago, and said this was one of the major qualms i had with the nick wagon.

but no one felt like discussing it at the time.

and nobody will discuss it now.

because fuck this game.

[Nachomamma8]

majiffy you had until i prodded my own lazy ass into gear.
that time is up.

[Faster Than Light]

Players then can all just hop on the wagon without having ARTICULATION for WHY, and if it turns out in a scum lynch, yattai, town points all around, but if it's a mislynch, they get to all just hide behind either pointing fingers at B&B or the smoke-screen that B&B allowed for scum to hide in that wagon.

now you're getting to something i pointed out roughly 20 pages ago, and said this was one of the major qualms i had with the nick wagon.

but no one felt like discussing it at the time.

and nobody will discuss it now.

because fuck this game.

I saw it then, and I'm seeing it now, and we need to discuss it.

This game is awesome, dude. Get your head in it. Bring your strongest stuff. I'm here for you. Let's do this.

-V

[Nachomamma8]

2. Andrius - Town, shouldn't take explanation considering he was the MAIN FUCKING COUNTERWAGON to RachMarie.
3. BeautyAndTheBeast (pirate mollie + Majiffy) - Town, shouldn't take explanation.
6. Faster Than Light (Varsoon + Metal Sonic) - Town, shouldn't take explanation.
8. Mac - Town, shouldn't *really* take explanation and won't for today but mollie townreading him should be enough.
9. mastin2 - Town, shouldn't take explanation.
12. Malakittens nhammen - leaning town at the moment, mollie townread is a huge boost.
16. Mutleyddmc Skullduggery - confirmed town for shooting Saki considering CONFIRMED ONE FACTION. he could be mafia vig but that's highly highly unlikely and he should be treated as confirmed town regardless of what you think of his shot.
21. zMuffinMan - town for constant disappointment and frustration.

1. Aj The Epic
4. BROseidon
5. Desperado
7. Ghostlin
13. nickthename
18. TiphaineDeath
19. Trust Fund (Cabd + Syryana)
20. Venmar

[Faster Than Light]

Trying to figure out how I can build my gambit around... eh...
I could still maybe make it work if Nick's the lynch.
Mala, do you want to be a part of my gambit, in that case?

-V

[nickthename]

Secondly, Nick keeps going "I'll get that case up later" constantly. I wrote a mala case in probably 10 minutes yesterday, it was that easy. You can get just about ANY post and go with it. Why is it taking him so damn long?

Because school just started and i'm fucking busy, what exactly would I get out of delaying it?

[Faster Than Light]

Metal Sonic V/LA from 9th September till 12th

let varsoon pull his gambit whatever out while i'm gone etc

[Faster Than Light]

Secondly, Nick keeps going "I'll get that case up later" constantly. I wrote a mala case in probably 10 minutes yesterday, it was that easy. You can get just about ANY post and go with it. Why is it taking him so damn long?

Because school just started and i'm fucking busy, what exactly would I get out of delaying it?

This. Feels like AJ's talking out of his ass and trying to accuse you of stalling. However, wouldn't the more effective stalling method be to post a good case against a counterwagon?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

majiffy you had until i prodded my own lazy ass into gear.
that time is up.

To do what?

[Metal Sonic]

I meant 6th till 9th


Friday till Monday

yeah

[Faster Than Light]

I meant 6th till 9th


Friday till Monday

yeah

Catching your hydra slips,
for great justice.
-V

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

1) I'm at L-1. How the hell is that stalling?
2) "Get less sucky reads." Is what I would say, but you don't even need to. Lynch mala, who is both scum and contributing nothing, and then you can use the result of Varsoon's gambit to figure out the reads. If his gambit turns out to be shit, lynch me then, and by that point my flip should be enough for you to finally start figuring things out, no?

1) Because your lynch hasn't gone through, a counterwagon has sprouted up, and all of this in spite of proven support for your lynch.
2) The lynchpin of your argument is that Varsoon's gambit is worth anything more than a piece of gum on the sidewalk. I'd rather go with the definite way to discern your alignment; lynching you.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't think PGO-claim warrants a day 1 lynch. I'm pretty sure that I'd be inclined to day-1 claim PGO if I rolled it.

Do you still believe the PGO claim?

Agreed. Varsoon is being cogent.

What's your opinion on his recent posts?

That TD wagon built faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast. That alone makes me think TD is town.

Nick wagon was built sloooooooooooooooooooow. What does that mean for his alignment?

And the votes I'm thinking are the potential scum-votes on the TD wagon are Muffin, Mac, Ghost (++ to chances if Macscum), TF).

Look back on that TD wagon and tell me your opinion now!

He proceeds to do something I consider anti-town: His case justified his vote, not his vote justifying his case. Meaning he didn't look for a case until AFTER he decided to vote for Mac.

I often vote with cases in mind as either alignment, so this isn't really indicative of much.

The general ease with which people are handing out townreads is making me nervous, given that I abused the fuck out of that last game to coast to the win.

This seems genuine.

Andy I have 0 understanding of your thought process in townreading me because you don't talk about why I'm town. We have a lot of differing reads, so it's certainly not a case of "his reads look good, must be town."

This looks good too.

You were REPLICATING your town game in the newbie game. This is downright your scum play. Appealing to Mollie, who misread you in that game, isn't smart since I'm the one who found your slip. You've already proven your own scum tell on FTL to work with you, and you're trying to get Mollie to defend you.

I LIKE the nick wagon, he's all over the place, but I'm 99% sure Mala is scum again.

If you could remind me what Mala's scum play looks like and what games you're pulling that from, that would be great.

Also going to point out that Nacho’s 832 feels like his play as my IC more than his play in Xeno, and he was town in both of those. Slightly townreading that post.

I'm confused how you compare my play with two towngames and get a townread from it. Aren't you supposed to do something like compare my townIC game with a scumIC game?

Btw nothing Mala is posting is making me feel good about that slot. She’s posting a lot of null and nhammen posted scummy so…

You're still reading things from the nhammen slot? What did he do, exactly?

Hey Trust fund. Your reads are bad, and you should feel bad. Wanna know why?

Plenty of other people had reads that disagreed with yours; why did you pick up on TF and no one else?

Yes, I believe that it was way too easy a push for a lynch. Think about it, what easier excuse is there to lynch someone other than a 'scumslip'.

It's easy to push for a lynch, but that's not really a reason for the entire scumteam minus one to attack him for it.

Show me a game where Mala used AtE so heavily and often as town. This isn't HER town game.

Can you show me the scumgame where Mala AtEd so heavily and often?

Thezmon is town, by far. You 'grilling' him was so useless, even that was defense of a scumbuddy. So after we flip Rach, her scum flip incriminates you, and your scum flip verifies FTL as town. 2 scum and a second verified town.

I don't like that your initial vote on Rach sets up for another lynch.

I know a player who drunk posts a lot on my off site and I've found it to be more scummy the more it's done. Almost an excuse to post often and get words in that you more or less can't take seriously. Because how do you type accurately when you're truly drunk? One, you shouldn't even be playing mafia at that point, but two, truly drunk people are rarely that coherent.

Calling drunkposting a scumtell is weird but probably a personality thing so noting but not considering as anything significant.

Basically he didn't just blatantly OMGUS and deathtunnel the person on him.

Have you looked at his other scum meta? Generally a deathtunneling scum meta doesn't work at all unless you also have a deathtunneling town meta.

I really hope someone kills Saki, our resident useless player. The ideology that you 'must be the hammer' is incredibly stupid. It feels like you want your ego stroked a bit by being the hammer and by doing so, you hinder the town's process.

Vote:Andrius

Fuck it. B&B are there, Notscience is there, as well FTL and trust fund. Maybe I'm missing something, but we don't have a lot of choice anymore.

This is, with TD's vote, l-3?

This vote is weird.

So it's scummy to let town stall out to a no-lynch>?

Got it.

BRO framed this like Rach was gonna flip town, which makes me feel good about him.

2322- And yet I’m the one who hammered the scum four hours before deadline ^_^ (we’ll ignore FTL showing up as a 12th vote)

Okay I’m just being a dick about this now. #sorrynotsorry.

And this gloating reads town as fuck.

Rereading BRO's and I's exchange, I'm reading BRO as pretty genuine so that's reassuring.

Therefore, by Rach flipping scum, I've only advanced my own case on Mala.

Yeah and I don't really like that.

@Jiffy: Fine. We go your way today.

Didn't you already compromise once? What makes you think that things will swing back over to Mala with a nick lynch?

Rach was acting more towny in Xenoblade if anything because she could scumhunt for the actual scumteam, and from what I've gathered it's a lack of real scumhunting that indicates scum-Rach normally.

In other words, this interaction reeks on multiple levels (because of the context of where you caught her last time, the fact that Rach flipped scum, and the fact that you, throughout all of these posts, never actually give any detail as to why Rach is town. You never articulate how any of her positions or posting quality indicated town interest to her. You instead tried to coast by on "I can read Rach well she's town trust me guys."

This was a good point.

[Nachomamma8]

majiffy you had until i prodded my own lazy ass into gear.
that time is up.

To do what?

to get a lynch before i sorted this game out
but you couldn't ram it through quick enough so now we're taking the long way around

[Faster Than Light]

majiffy you had until i prodded my own lazy ass into gear.
that time is up.

To do what?

to get a lynch before i sorted this game out
but you couldn't ram it through quick enough so now we're taking the long way around

~<3

[Faster Than Light]

I feel like BRO's input is genuine, too. I'd like

more

input from him because of that, too.

AJ seems to be on the ground that Nick and Mala are a cross-bus.
I don't think that's the case, but yeah.

I'm pretty unhappy about AJ's response, but that's obvious in my response to him.

Nacho, you posted:
"1. Aj The Epic
4. BROseidon
5. Desperado
7. Ghostlin
13. nickthename
18. TiphaineDeath
19. Trust Fund (Cabd + Syryana)
20. Venmar"

Are these players you are currently suspicious of/want to get more out of?
I noticed you focused on BRO and started towards questioning AJ, which seems like a progression down this list, but do you intend on working with everyone here before the day ends?

[Faster Than Light]

What I'm getting at here, is that,
Is there a reason to the priority of the list, and if so, what are those reasons?