Mini 1482: Castle - A Mafia Murder So Vile (GAME OVER)

[waynegg]

Mod could you please edit my formatting in the Serra spoiler to add a "/" before "post" following 732 so the formatting works, if you have the time?

...double formatting fail. I suck.

[FakeGod]

Wayne, can you explain again what exactly you're saying in 2723?

I have literally no idea what you're talking about. Like in any of your posts.

[Mantisdreamz]

Also waynegg i never said we had day chat. why are u linking my unvote of serra?

[Bert]

Waynegg have you played with Desp-scum before?

[Bert]

Gut actually likes waynegg today

Does anyone here have experience with waynegg? If so, how do u read him

[Malakittens]

3.10

with nine alive it will take five to lynch.

*waynegg -
*Sweet Pertayter -
*FakeGod -
*Mantisdreamz - Desperado, FakeGod, Serrapaladin [3]
*Serrapaladin -
*Desperado - Natirasha, Mantisdreamz, waynegg [3]
*Bert -
*Natirasha -
*penguin_alien -

Not Voting [3]: penguin_alien, bert, Sweet Pertayter

Chapter 3 Ends..

Day 3 ends in (expired on 2013-09-19 12:55:00)

[Natirasha]

Yeah I have no idea what you're saying waynegg.

[Bert]

yeah....

doopdedoooooo

Vote: Desperado

[waynegg]

Wayne, can you explain again what exactly you're saying in 2723?

I have literally no idea what you're talking about. Like in any of your posts.

Sure

On Mantis

Mantis slipped that he and Wisdom talked in their QT. keep in mind this was D1.

The game was a day start game

FakeGod asked if they had day talk

Wisdom said they didn't

Since it was a day start game, and the neighbors don't have day talk, they couldn't have talked privately to each other at that point.

On Serra

Serra is the one who asked about the neighbors' QT that spurred the comments from Mantis

When FG asked Wisdom if the duo had day talk and Wisdom said they didn't, Serra should have been all over Mantis's previous comment and didn't

[Bert]

Just finished reading...

DESP was not untouchable, ever, ever, never

err...nothing else to add right now other than MARA come here

PENG come here, do not be a stranger

this is lynch -1, so be cautious

wayne you talk a lot

FakeGod is in some tunnel and is unsaveable so aint gonna try

Love, BERT <333333

[Bert]

EBWOP: FG is so off, like, he/she has veered off course and needs to correct seriously because GUT says Nat is TOWN TOWN TOWN

Serra never meets my expectations so I aint got nuttin to say to u until u bring me some LOVE <3

and wayne I like the effort you put into your posts for this day, props dude

[waynegg]

Also waynegg i never said we had day chat. why are u linking my unvote of serra?

I was kinda hoping you would say that, but I didn't think you would since I linked to your quote

what did he say in your QT?

we had like, 2 minutes to talk.

and nothing was said, other than we would try to figure out each others alignments in thread.
:/

Explain?

Also waynegg i never said we had day chat. why are u linking my unvote of serra?

Waynegg have you played with Desp-scum before?

Not to my knowledge

[FakeGod]

Well, I assumed that they talked in the QT pregame or something.

[FakeGod]

Why is everyone saying that I'm in a tunnel?

[Bert]

Cuz my gut feels like nat is town and u r either scum or like in a Wisdom-level tunnel

cuz u cant get outta ur head that Nat might be town

does that make sense

[serrapaladin]

Right, despite waynegg's posts making the bottle of whiskey in my desk seem particularly appealing, I've sort of organised my thoughts:

Fine. I'll lay it all out there. I want Desp the most because I can see him wifoming out of it if he isn't lynched today.

Here's Mantis's slip

Spoiler:

734 neighbors don't get day talk. I've had that role too
many times and this was a day start. Busted! Checked with Mala
and this was daystart so there's no way that during D1 these guys
had been able to talk in QT at all, if they're neighbors. Crying that
literally nobody called this obvious slip out, though for a moment I
thought that FG was going to. Since he touched on it and then didn't,
he earned a weak scum read for his efforts.

1848 FakeGod asks if the neighbors get day talk

1849 Wisdom: "We don't."


REKKKTTTT!!!!

And my thoughts on Serra which includes why Mantis's slip links directly to him

Serrapaladin ~ Claimed VT Javier Esposito

Spoiler:

20 early scum; AA isn't nice town when voted
130 yeah, much too nice for AA town. She's scum. From
the faked anger to the gentle deflecting.
308 comes on, discredits, disappears

And then serrapaladin comes in and wrecks this, though the slot could still be scum. As good as serra's initial play is, it doesn't erase the original slot holder's definite scum meta. However, 438 is pushing hard with reasons for Slimer to be scum. But he wasn't. In fact, this derailed a couple of decent wagons for what the players

did

instead of what they didn't do.

466 in response to PA's 465 looks like Serra may have been
caught with his pants down...
510 how do you know they would have been mislynches? Maybe
he should be Policy for the information it would give... Besides, he
should be dead by now from a NK if nothing else for his rep...
577acknowledging the claim while pointing out that VT is the most
common mod provided safeclaim. The fact that this came out almost
completely unprovoked doesn't help its legitimacy.
732 link to Mantis
779reminds me of the trial in Idiocracy...

So, here's the poop on Serra. He isn't in this game like others and hasn't followed through on some stuff he's said he's gonna do. His 732 is particularly damning. The moment Wisdom confirmed they didn't have daychat in 1849 he should have been all over Mantis for that slip because it was his original line of questioning. That means he had intimate knowledge that he couldn't simply forget.

fixed a code error ~Mala

Look, I appreciate that you're trying to overhaul the entire game, but the underlying assumption that none of us has been paying attention is pretty awful. Mantis mentioned they had pregame talk, which is very common even without day talk.

I don't even know what to say about your 'case' against me... If you think me asking mantis about her discussion with wis is "damning", I think you may need to reconsider how you play this game.

Now, this situation really isn't that complex, so it's pretty shocking that FG and Nati are the only ones on the ball (if on opposite sides, of course).

This post is good, and is a pretty accurate representation of what my paranoid half thinks:

Because. He was in a bad position--ignoring Waynegg for a minute--the rest of us all thought Desp was suspicious as fuck! I distinctly didn't investigate him

because

he was so obviously scum that I was going to push his lynch anyway. If he did something timid like claim VT or some shit, we'd already be on night three. So, no, I think the scum team decided to go for some big plays. If it worked, hey, they managed to get two lynches out of Desperado before death. And the game is in LyLo from then-on. If not, well, oh well, he was pretty dead in the water anyway.

Unfortunately, this is exactly the sort of more or less plausible conspiracy theory I use whenever I'm caught as scum. I agree that desp was a likely lynch target for today, so scum saccing him to get another lynch is certainly in the realm of possibility.

The alternative is of course that desp is actually a tracker and indeed got a guilty on mantis. Mantis may contest that she never claimed to ONLY be a neighbour, but that's bullshit. She was asked to claim to avoid being hammered and that claim was simply "neighbour", which means she doesn't have a night-action. If desp is a tracker, mantis is scum. It also probably means that Nati is scum, because cop+tracker+bodyguard in a 13p game is unlikely (but not impossible).

If he is scum, Nati has been hard-crumbing cop from mid D1, which is interesting. I want to say that makes his scumgame at least a bit rusty, because his entire spiel was just too obvious to back away from later, so he was somewhat prematurely committing to an investigative fakeclaim.

Right, a position that you knew would never gain any traction. Until now anyway.

Then why didn't I lynch serra?

The simplest explanation would be that you had been townreading me and as long as there was a chance to lynch someone else, prematurely agreeing to compromise on my lynch would have been suspicious. Had you deadline-switched to scumreading me, I would certainly have fought back.

Fallacy. Any scum lynch gives equal information because connections can be drawn from the lynch. I also find it less likely for Mantis to be scum than Desparado. Not that I don't see Mantis as scum, because I can see that. The difference is that I

do

see scum in Desp.

But you're looking at it from a biased point of view.

You're assuming that Desp will flip scum.

Spending the last 54 hours (I slept less than nine of those) reading this game and drawing connections with yarn and pictures on my wall hardly makes me biased. I went into this with a completely open mind and had 2/3 of my connections drawn before I ever received my role pm. That's as unbiased as you can get.

This post bothers me a lot.

also Desp, who do you say my partners are then? you're rolling with Nat as one. how about the other??

VOTE: Mantis

I'm pretty sure this is the right lynch for today.

again, terrible.

serra feels he did *just* the right amount of questioning for desp, and now feels it's safe to place his vote on me.

This just isn't true. I never said I was convinced desp was telling the truth. I simply made the judgement that a mantis lynch is objectively the RIGHT lynch.

For the record it was stated that this was not a bastard game and it has been reviewed for balance.

I do not mod bastard games.

Not bastard =/= normal

ffs

and then serra tries to shift attention here by focusing on waynegg questioning the mod

You're not even trying any more. Waynegg made a false statement about the setup which I corrected while implying he's a bit of a moron. No "attention shifting" here. Notice how I didn't invite discussion about the setup, but rather wanted to avoid it by clearing up the misconception.

I'll admit I haven't completely decided whom to believe, but unless you anyone knows with 100% certainty who is telling the truth, mantis is the better lynch. My reads so far have had Nati/mantis as town and desp as scum, so I really want to believe them. On the other hand Occam's razor doesn't like Nati's description above at all, as it requires a decent level of scheming by the scumteam. It also requires that the scumteam felt desp was a certain lynch for today, which I'm not sure is true.

As to why mantis is the optimal lynch if you're unsure which side you believe, it comes down to information and desp being a claimed PR. If we wrongly lynch desp, we've lynched a PR, whereas wrongly lynching mantis only costs us a neighbour. If mantis flips town, we know to instalynch desp, whereas if she flips scum, desp is basically conftown and nati is likely scum.

On a completely unrelated note, Bert has sort of been pinging my scumdar today.

[serrapaladin]

@Waynegg: please shut up and read the game.

@Mantis: Not really

Wisdom hasn't commented much, if at all , about you recently. Plus he may have talked to u before d1?

Sorry phone access only for the rest of the night :/

we talked pre game.

also
VOTE: serra

We already knew the neighbours didn't have day talk, so kindly fuck off.

[FakeGod]

Serra you're like a light at the end of a dark tunnel

I've been stuck in here with these people and they drive me nuts Q.Q

[serrapaladin]

*deep breath*

Sorry wayne, that was too harsh, but this game has really been getting to me and I thought I finally had some breathing room with Wisdom no longer tunnelling on me.

<3 FG

[Bert]

OH MY GOD

This is so confusing

.....

Unvote

Serra keep talking please

[Bert]

I'm home now, Serra talk to me about why Mantis is the right lynch today...

Mara is around but won't even come in to talk to me

[Bert]

This just isn't true. I never said I was convinced desp was telling the truth. I simply made the judgement that a mantis lynch is objectively the RIGHT lynch.

They're arguing that probability that Desp is scum is > probability that Mantis is scum,

and therefore, the objectively right lynch is thrown out the window

what do you say to that

[Bert]

I'll admit I haven't completely decided whom to believe, but unless you anyone knows with 100% certainty who is telling the truth, mantis is the better lynch. My reads so far have had Nati/mantis as town and desp as scum, so I really want to believe them. On the other hand Occam's razor doesn't like Nati's description above at all, as it requires a decent level of scheming by the scumteam. It also requires that the scumteam felt desp was a certain lynch for today, which I'm not sure is true.

Why do you think everyone is yelling at you?

And Mantis accused you of scum pretty much just because you voted her...

[waynegg]

@Waynegg: please shut up and read the game.

@Mantis: Not really

Wisdom hasn't commented much, if at all , about you recently. Plus he may have talked to u before d1?

Sorry phone access only for the rest of the night :/

we talked pre game.

also
VOTE: serra

We already knew the neighbours didn't have day talk, so kindly fuck off.

This is what caught scum looks like

How about you quote me that tidbit where Mantis said they had pregame talk, cause when I read the game WORD-FOR-WORD twice I must have missed it both times. Maybe you just thought he did because it was in you scum QT or something.

[FakeGod]

bert

When an investigative role claims with a guilty before MyLo, lynching the guilty is the correct choice because you can test whether the claim is real or not by lynching the guilty.

pedit: