Mini 1496: The Cash Cabd (Game Over)

[Sound of Silence]

my heads have been revealed.

It's Xegarus and zMuffinMan.

though xegarus is apparently busy and hasn't had time for mafia, so it's me solo so far this game.

I wasn't sure how much weight to give that given the source and your ignoring it. :/

I've never meta'd you. I feel like your play is fairly transparent.

[Rail Tracer]

i ignored it because i don't see it as relevant (i don't care much for meta and i don't have any recent completed games anyway). i publicly revealed my heads in the signup thread for another game (which is why saki knows).

[notscience]

I did that a lot the first time I played with one.

I was town.

He played it up early.

Do you think he's scum? If so, why?

[Rail Tracer]

because i think what he's done in the way of scum hunting so far hasn't looked genuine. i described this in one of my more recent posts. i don't like the way he doesn't seem to be analysing motivation (for example, in his reads on hc and fuduzn, where he thinks one is scum for "LYING" and the other is scummy for the ate)

e.g.

After the FuDuzn AtE I was willing to vote him but then I encountered HC's big fat lie and finally we have saki that warrants a wagon until she demonstrates she can play (if you don't think she can or are willing to excuse her meta I can show you a game where she was she made descriptive posts - check her history).

you didn't comment on any of the game-relevant content he's posted. what's your opinion on it?

[notscience]

He seems to be doing a lot of theory and common debacles (ate being a scumtell (WHICH IT ISNT), Lynch all "liars" even though at that point it really isn't anything substantial. At best, it's an associative if either flips scum. But however, that in and of itself doesn't make him scum.

I'll be totally honest, I read him flipping shit about hydrae and the bit about Saki lying and wrote him off as town (I only skimmed his ISO because majority of his posts are walls, but am rereading them now)

Although I disagree with his points and I feel like he's blatantly wrong about things, he's being kinda persistent with what he's said which gives good vibes. (Take for example, his persistence accusation of HC lying about mario or Fu's AtE)

It's strange how he has only stated two townreads and even those were "early" townreads.

Hmmm.

[Rail Tracer]

(Take for example, his persistence accusation of HC lying about mario or Fu's AtE)

yeah, but that's a major issue i'm having with the way he's scumhunting. i called it mechanical because i don't see the analysis.

there was like one read i think i remember him analysing motivation (may have been in regards to brian? i don't remember) but that was it.

the only thing that's giving me second thoughts on hp is that i'm considering the possibility this could just be how he plays.

[notscience]

Didn't he tell people to start analyzing motivation?

[notscience]

I've played with Dessew HC and Fu before btw

I confbias tunneled HC and he was town

Dessew was scum I think and this behaviour is looking similar to it which is what's pinging me so hard

Fu was scum too but I don't remember him doing the selfdefeatist bit there

[Rail Tracer]

Didn't he tell people to start analyzing motivation?

in #167 yeah. im going back over his iso atm and trying to read it from a town perspective. i can see some things that i can maybe see as town, but i really don't like how he has apparently arrived at his scum reads.

Dessew was scum I think and this behaviour is looking similar to it which is what's pinging me so hard

i don't disagree with the dessew read. if i start thinking hp is town, i'll probably move to dessew.

[Dessew]

Well since talking to Smudge and Z7 is clearly pointless since they clearly, and effectively I will admit, pushing the mislynch(I say this with confidence now since Z7 is going all in only now that he sees that HC is leaning towards voting Dessew and Z7 can just fully commit now).

HC, and I can't believe this just hit me, hasn't Smudge been pushing for you as scum most of the game? The same Smudge who has clearly been following breadcrumbs and pr tells all game just so can be prepared for this situation? You don't think he didn't have a pretty good idea you were a pr while he was trying to get you lynched?

Seems a bit strange right HC?

In the game you are talking about was no pressure on Fu, only in LyLo. But in LyLo when it came down to lynching me or the BP, he did try to use emotions.

About Mario: He's an alt if I'm right. I read that sentence as: "I got lynched earlier because of inactivity, but that's how I roll."

About kitty: Those 14 posts are much less than 14, in fact. There're only 5-10 minutes between two posts, and not because she's answering a new one. I guess she has some problems with her heads. When those problems have been solved, I'm probably going to have a non-nullread on her.

Brian: Please don't answer ns's read on you with how much you want to discuss hydrae. Just don't type the word "hydra". I would be a reveal.

[notscience]

So you mention my reads and yet you don't even bother trying to respond to anything?

[Dessew]

I responded to your reads where I thought I can say something that hasn't been said yet. Or should I have responded to your read on me? Because I don't want to. It would create only WIFOM, so it'd be pointless.

[Brian Skies]

My head hurts. I'll have a wall-post and reads posted either tomorrow or Sunday.

[notscience]

Yeah, Dessew is scum.

That last post looks like "I'd respond but it'd incriminate me more so I'll pass it off as "oh itll make wifom"" to me.

[Brian Skies]

@RT: Your quotes are nice and all, but can you put the post numbers somewhere? It makes it easier to find them and follow along. If not, that's cool too. I can deal.

@RT & HP: Stop fighting over who is making who talk about hydrae. If there is any hydra discussion, it's being caused by me. And HP, there are questions in #142 you never answered. I'd still like them answered, but if you don't want to, that's cool too.

Brian is null. He must be very busy with arguing over hydrae and

defending his point about his first three posts

.

It's annoying. I curse the English language for being so difficult to grasp.

Also, the hydra discussion can suck it. I don't care anymore.

My quick reads (a more detailed one will be posted sometime later this weekend):
Top 4 leaning town: RT, SoS, DB, ak
Top 4 leaning scum: Desu, Mario, Saki, HP

[Humble Poirot]

Re: Motivations, it's funny because I'm getting accused of not doing the very thing I do most. I analyze motivations instead of thinking action A -> scummy or action B -> town.

In fact, that's what I did with HC and why I'm voting him right now. I disagree with both Dessew and railtracer that it's a mistake. and

If It was too easy to see (that mario posted after his call on only one lurker) the

Why on earth did he do it and why it makes him town

?

rail accuses me of not looking at town motivation when doing so when he doesn't consider scum motivation when doing so (this is consistent with doing the exact things he accuses me of, quite annoying).

HC REACTED immediately by looking for an excuse for his vote instead of going back and checking (or admitting he didn't really know). That's a scummy thing to do, the likelihood of doing it as scum is much higher of doing it as town where he shouldn't have felt the need to defend himself instead with something he didn't know to be true.

If someone has a free vote, placing it on Saki seems like a good idea.

@Brian: I believed I had (see where I talk about not liking the concept). The lylo thing is anecdotal (I mentioned that the post where I gave the link), it's like saying X player makes it to lylo and screws it up. No, obviously not only hydras misvote in lylo but there's the factor of one player not paying attention because he has someone else I mentioned in my first post and that I believe is quite true (yes, in the end, I'm more confident than not that I'll be right about hydra created weaknesses for a pro-town game).

I hope HC comes and actually defends himself (Considering so far dessew and rail are trying to provide a defense for him).

@Mod: I'll be V/LA[/u] for the weekend probably till sunday night.

@notscience: about the few townreads. I'll be honest, this game hasn't featured a lot of actual discussions that I could derive town people from.

My initial reads of trailracer and SOS still stand although a comment from someone made me wary of SOS (saying that he usually looks like this) so I won't immediately assume anything. trailracer is consistent enough with his thick-headed interpretations of what I do (While also focusing on other parts of the game) to look like probable town. Wrong, but town. That doesn't mean that I won't push him for answers (I don't recall who said I was pushing him and voting HC and scumhunting FuDuzn and others as if it were scummy but it's absurd, I can very well scumhunt many people at the same time) to find out if he really believes what he is saying or if there's some malice behind it, I believe the former.

Mario and DB's posts I liked but it's still too early, I read people better with interactions.

I'll develop on some more things when I come back, this post was written in interrupted rushes and, even then, has taken too much precious time. Later.

[Rail Tracer]

I disagree with both Dessew and railtracer that it's a mistake

i don't think it's a mistake. i don't think it's anything at all. if you read the first part of the post in which you claim hc is lying, you can see what hc was actually saying (i.e. that there was no real reason to choose fegelein over others). the second sentence is a, "well, now i don't have a reason to attack mario over fegelein" sort of thing.

my point about you calling it a lie and not thinking it could be a mistake is that you are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is, and you're

not

trying to understand the motivation that you claim you are. *shrug*

[notscience]

HP what's your opinion on Dessew thus far?

[Rail Tracer]

Why on earth did he do it and why it makes him town?

also HC isn't a town read of mine. but i'm not scum reading him and your argument for thinking he's scum is not at all convincing.

[Cabd]

@Mod: I'll be V/LA[/u] for the weekend probably till sunday night.

Noted.

[Rebel Without a Pulse]

I think HC is due for a prod.
Waiting for Nacho to post in our QT.

Stubbs

[notscience]

Hey stubbs, care to talk?

[Rebel Without a Pulse]

We both played in Newbie 1393, along with Fu, that's why I placed my random vote (I know I said "serious vote", but come oooon) on HC. Because I thought I could get something out of his reactions. He's hasty, joking a little, concerned about the vote on him (even starting to suspect the one (me) who is voting him.) There's also the "I don't know who to vote, I don't want to harm town by voting to the wrong place." Also, there's the fact that he placed his vote on Fege with a stupid reasonong, and his last post (#133) screws up chronology, Mario had contributed to the game as much as Fege had when HC voted Fege.

You summed up his actions decently, but you didn't follow up with anything like "so he's probably town" which is usually the important thing in these parts. I thought this was translating to a HC = scum conclusion, but then you unvote him and go for Fu. Why?

His retracting the PGO claim points to town-Saki IMO.

I pointed that out to Stubbs! <3

so he's being emotional and irrational and this is making you read him as town? or what part of the irrational approach made you think "town mindset"?

The part where he attempts to mitigate the damage that these hydras will do to this beautiful game. Yes, it is a perfectly valid approach for scum to attempt to discredit the hell out of all hydras. Do I think that's what HP's going for? No, not really. In this game the hydras are generally leading pretty strongly, so I think he would back down a bit as scum when no one really bought his reasoning. Here, he didn't.

Anyone else feeling Brian scum?

Not really, no.

Why would a town player act so defeated so fast? This looks like misdirection. It's not done after a wagon, it's done immediatly and without actual intent of showing who you think is scum.

Signs of giving up are usually just inexperienced or not that confident of a player tells.

Mario feels weird. He's not under any fire and yet "If you dont like when I post just lynch me" seems very forced. Like a forceful way of trying to say "I don't care if I die"

I very strongly agree with this.

Kitty is leaning scum. It seems for someone with 14 posts they only have 1 townread and 1 scumread. It kinda looks like they're trying to buddy up to fu.

So the artemis head of the hydra is someone who plays with mollie/ffery and I in a different place where ffery sort of dominates everything. The fact that she's getting paranoid of ffery here is a strong towntell to me.

i can see some things that i can maybe see as town, but i really don't like how he has apparently arrived at his scum reads.

You noted earlier that when you are looking for genuine scumhunting, you look for players that don't read between the lines. Some players start out with surface attacks and sort of ease their way in. I think HP is one of those players.

I responded to your reads where I thought I can say something that hasn't been said yet. Or should I have responded to your read on me? Because I don't want to. It would create only WIFOM, so it'd be pointless.

What WIFOM is created from you defending yourself?

[Sound of Silence]

I pointed that out to Stubbs! <3

Yeah, well I'm not getting town read that easily.

[Taskmaster]

Nacho what do you think of Dessew?