Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[BROseidon]

Haven't had a chance to do any rereading to recalibrate reads, so stuff is really wonky right now. Scumlist right now looks like:

Scum:

Mala
Venmar

These are more based on the Rach flip than anything else, so the Nick flip didn't weaken these too much. The Mala read is stronger than the Venmar one, though.

Possibly Scum:

AJ
Andy
Desp
Mac
Nacho
TD
TF

Town:

FTL
Ghost
Mastin
Mutt
Muffin

I'm hoping that I'll either get a chance to do rereads soon, or that today will shed light on that middle group. Hoping to pull two solid scumreads from that middle group, and I have a few ideas on where to look to start. Nacho scum exonerates Venmar, btw. I don't think they can be together on a scumteam.

As far as what happened day 1 goes, it's either that scum found the Andy counterwagon more juicy (which would be strange, given the vote counts you just posted), or there was a last-ditch effort to give a weak Andy slot towncred once scum saw that Rach was going down. Given the way that Andy coasted through yesterday, I think that would be a good place to apply pressure today.

Other than Mala, of course. I still want her head.

VOTE: EVIL KITTENS

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think mala is scum, and i will probably replace out if a repeat of d2 happens today with mala instead of nick. i'm not interested in arguing why mala is a bad lynch, and i don't expect to hear any good responses to the objections i have against it. venmar is also a horrible candidate at this point.

i will say this, though. in light of the nick flip, mala's d2 posts look townish, and the fact that she never showed any interest in jumping on the nick wagon is a good sign.

my guess is that even lynching randomly from those on the nick wagon would more likely hit scum than a mala lynch.

which reminds me. i want to hear why people think the nick wagon stalled so hard d2. i recall hearing a lot about how it was so obviously a town-driven wagon.

[zMuffinMan]

[10] nickthename (Nachomamma8, BROseidon, Aj The Epic, Trust Fund <- lynching randomly within that is likely to hit scum. maybe add desperado in as a possibility from the later portion of the wagon.

[Ghostlin]

i don't think mala is scum, and i will probably replace out if a repeat of d2 happens today with mala instead of nick

. i'm not interested in arguing why mala is a bad lynch, and i don't expect to hear any good responses to the objections i have against it. venmar is also a horrible candidate at this point.

i will say this, though. in light of the nick flip, mala's d2 posts look townish, and the fact that she never showed any interest in jumping on the nick wagon is a good sign.

my guess is that even lynching randomly from those on the nick wagon would more likely hit scum than a mala lynch.

which reminds me. i want to hear why people think the nick wagon stalled so hard d2. i recall hearing a lot about how it was so obviously a town-driven wagon.

Really? We're going to be this immature about a wagon that you could easily call the 'victim' of coasting, not participating and in light of Nick, probably turned out less scum driven? We're really going to say 'if you don't vote the way I want, I'm going to replace out, and no argument is going to sway me otherwise?'

And before you go 'I'm only protesting the Mala wagon', it's still exactly what you're doing.

That aside...

It's null to me. :/

Everyone who is championing so hard for FTL town needs to look at the way Varsoon handled this nick wagon and get your shit together.

We should lynch this. It sounds like Des damn well knew the outcome of the lynch, and wanted to push the blame to FTL. Providing the mea culpa while riding the wagon to lynch ANYWAY.

[Ghostlin]

Vote: Desp

barring a reasonable reason to go elsewhere.

[Ghostlin]

damn. i was hoping either i'd die or i'd be able to tell majiffy to SHUT THE FUCK UP for the rest of the game. that's disappointing.

@BRO,
updated scum list now

i grew extremely paranoid of an andrius-nacho team overnight. especially since it looked like nacho knew nick was a bad lynch but never did anything to stop it.

so...

someone tell me what they think was going on with these votecounts and why the nick wagon never picked up steam as a counterwagon to RM. you can probably already guess my opinion on it. i want to see others.

Votecount 1.18

[5] RachMarie (zMuffinMan, Andrius, Desperado, Aj The Epic, Nachomamma8)
[4] nickthename (mastin2, notscience, BeautyAndTheBeast, Faster Than Light)
[3] Andrius (Trust Fund, Malakittens, RachMarie)
[3] mastin2 (BROseidon, nickthename, TiphaineDeath)
[2] Mutleyddmc (Ghostlin, Saki)
[1] BROseidon (Sound of Silence)
[1] Saki (Mutleyddmc)
[1] TiphaineDeath (Venmar)

[1] Not Voting (Mac)

---

Votecount 1.19

[7] RachMarie (zMuffinMan, Andrius, Desperado, Aj The Epic, Nachomamma8, TiphaineDeath, Ghostlin)
[5] nickthename (mastin2, notscience, BeautyAndTheBeast, Faster Than Light, Mutleyddmc)
[3] Andrius (Trust Fund, Malakittens, RachMarie)
[2] mastin2 (BROseidon, nickthename)
[1] BROseidon (Sound of Silence)
[1] Mutleyddmc (Saki)
[1] TiphaineDeath (Venmar)

[1] Not Voting (Mac)

I jumped off the Mutley/Skull ship to lynch Rach because I still like Rach as a scum candidate, and TD jumped off of Mastin, I'd say for the same reason, although even with one vote, Mastin was doing better as a wagon, tied with Andrius.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: like=liked

[zMuffinMan]

i don't give two shits what you think about how 'immature' that is. there is no good case on mala. there was no good case on nick. if a mala wagon happens for the same shitty reasons the nick wagon happened, then yes i'd rather replace out than deal with a bunch of morons.

i'm fucking over having to argue with people who don't listen to logical arguments and i don't enjoy playing games where i can debunk basically every single point for nick being and still have people go, "no lol nick is scum!" <- YES, THE FUCKING ARGUMENT FOR NICK BEING SCUM AT THE END OF THE DAY WAS NO BETTER THAN, "LOL HE IS SCUM!"

it's a fucking joke and i'd rather not even play if that's going to happen.

also my point in bringing up those votecounts is because that was the height of the nick wagon d1 and it never developed any further as a counterwagon to RM.

why do you think this is?

[zMuffinMan]

if you actually have reasons that you think are decent for voting mala, then i don't care if you vote mala. although i will look at those reasons and assess what i think of them and talk about any i disagree with. if the mala wagon is just "mala is scum" as seems to be the case with bro's vote, then yeah, i'm going to be pretty pissed off if the same shit that happened d2 happens today.

[Ghostlin]

why do you think this is?

Honestly, there were a lot of players that were apathetic for Nick as a scum candidate. It's sorta how I felt at the end of Day 2 about it. I wasn't even completely convinced that Nickscum was like the thing. He served as a compromise lynch Day 2, and Rach was a much better Day 1 lynch.

[zMuffinMan]

yes. ok. but i'm asking why you think he never developed as a counter-wagon to RM. i know a lot of people were apathetic towards him or not reading him as scum, etc, i'm asking why you think it is that no real support for this counter-wagon ever developed.

i'm thinking there's a decent chance that the entire nick wagon was town. so i'm trying to figure out why nick never developed as a counter-wagon. the only options i'm left with are that scum were more interested in bussing RM, scum were not active at the time, scum didn't want to take contradictory stances to ones they'd already taken on nick or i'm wrong about my town reads. those are my guesses in order of most->least likely.

[nickthename]

At least I died a hero. A hero everyone called useless scum and killed.

Love you guys, :p.

[BROseidon]

if you actually have reasons that you think are decent for voting mala, then i don't care if you vote mala. although i will look at those reasons and assess what i think of them and talk about any i disagree with. if the mala wagon is just "mala is scum" as seems to be the case with bro's vote, then yeah, i'm going to be pretty pissed off if the same shit that happened d2 happens today.

1) I've already stated why nhammen's postings before replacing out were scummy.

2) The way in which Mala tried to discredit the Rach wagon, especially her response to Thez's case, was scummy.

3) The way that Mala has coasted throughout this entire game, especially during day 2, has been scummy.

No, the case is not fucking "lol Mala is scum." If you're going to call me a fucking moron instead of engaging with the arguments that I've repeated MULTIPLE FUCKING TIMES AT THIS POINT, then go ahead you fuckwad. I'm seriously getting pissed off at your "holier than though" attitude and your fucking refusal to engage with what I've posted.

So yeah, replace out if all you're going to do is be a fucking asshat about everything.

[zMuffinMan]

your fucking refusal to engage with what I've posted.

except i've engaged with almost

everything

you've posted, including your non-existent reasoning for nick being scum and your extremely poor reasoning for venmar being scum.

talk about the "way" mala has coasted and why it's "scummy"

i'm aware you've called things scummy, i've yet to see you explain why they are.

[zMuffinMan]

also talk about why you so strongly felt mala is scum but stood by your vote on nick for reasons that were pathetic at best.

[mastin2]

VOTE: Mac.

[zMuffinMan]

actually, on second thought, i'm not all that opposed to a derp mala wagon, as long as a mala town flip means powerlynching the fuck out of bro and aj the following days.

[Andrius]

Dear Scum,

Thank you for killing a scumread of mine, and not anyone of actual importance!

-Andy

p.s. I'm still going to shoot your brains out first chance I get.

[Andrius]

actually, on second thought, i'm not all that opposed to a derp mala wagon, as long as a mala town flip means powerlynching the fuck out of bro and aj the following days.

scummy as fuck

Given the way that Andy coasted through yesterday, I think that would be a good place to apply pressure today.

then lynch me you fuck
i have seriously put my neck on the line for CHOPPING BLOCK two days in a row now
and no one wants to take me up on it
WHY NOT
IS IT BECAUSE YOU HAVE PICKED UP MY CRUMBS AND YOU KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN?

[Andrius]

i have time today because i overslept and cant really do much in 3 hours so im just going to read d1 and fucking attempt to find le scum!
someone stop me i don't want to read that many pages

[Andrius]

Since mastin is APPARENTLY off the table,

Vote: BROSEIDON

. Still like mala's reaction to LE DEADS, still want her to post reads and shit. I don't remember the last time BRO did anything so let's just start here.

brb updating readslist

[Desperado]

We should lynch this. It sounds like Des damn well knew the outcome of the lynch, and wanted to push the blame to FTL. Providing the mea culpa while riding the wagon to lynch ANYWAY.

This is completely nonsensical. How would I push the blame on FTL when he wanted nothing to do with the nick wagon?

Do you even know what I meant when I said that Varsoon's treatment of the nick wagon was scummy? Because this kinda makes it seem like you didn't.

This reeks of an FTL chainsaw.

Vote: Ghostlin

[Andrius]

TOWN
AJ The Epic
Desperado
Ghostlin
Nachomamma8

Saki

mutleyddmc
FasterThanLight

LEANINGTOWN
borkjerfkin

LEANING SCUM
TrustFund
TiphanieDeath
mac
BROseidon
zMuffinMan

SCUM
mastin

RachMarie

nickthename

Venmar

NACHO, I LEAVE IT ALL TO YOU

BeautyandtheBeast

Malakittens

SoundofSilence

[BROseidon]

talk about the "way" mala has coasted and why it's "scummy"

i'm aware you've called things scummy, i've yet to see you explain why they are.

nhammen's entry post was incredibly reminiscent of his entry-post and overall posting style as scum in a game I recently completed with him. He posted a lot of IIoA and fence-sitting stuff without engaging with what was actually going on around him. This demonstrates a scum interest because it makes him appear like he's engaging with the thread while he's not actually pushing the game forward.

Mala comes in, doesn't post anything of substance, and instead spends most of day 1 trying to push people off the Rach wagon without actually giving any reasons as to why Rach is town. Her response to Thez's case, "so lol PL," was particularly horrible, but everything she posted was along the lines of "this is just Rach posting the way Rach does" despite the fact that Rach was strongly playing to her scum meta of only posting fluff without actually scumhunting at all. This demonstrates scum interest because it's her trying to derail a wagon on scum for reasons that were not just bad, but horrible (note, this is the same thing I was saying about Venmar yesterday).

And she (like many players that I want to look at) coasted through yesterday. Instead of engaging with the thread and trying to prove why she's town, she was content to lurk out the day, not contribute anything, and let the nick lynch go through without voicing an actual opinion. This demonstrates scum interest because it got pressure off her in the short-term while not giving any content for the rest of us to work with should we decide to ultimately lynch her.

Now are you going to respond to my case, or are you going to continue to deathtunnel me and treat me like shit?

[BROseidon]

I don't remember the last time BRO did anything so let's just start here.

...Um, what?

I was literally the driving force behind the first 1/2 or so of the previous day phase...