Big Brother: HoH Mafia (We have a winner at last)

[Toogeloo]

Because I don't think there was any reason to buss when they can lie about who they voted.

So, what reason would the 3 people who have claimed to have voted you tell the truth about it if it would have been just as easy to lie?

Since you're jumping in in the middle of the conversation, can you tell me what you think happened?

Desperado, you've made a case that you think 3 out of the 4 votes on you were scum, and stated at the very least 2 out of 3 of Myself, F-16, and Rach are in the scum. You also are making the case that Scum wouldn't bus if they could just lie about who they voted for by saying they voted for Gnomeo.

We've also already established that one liar is present in the Gnomeo votes. So at the most (not the very least) only 2 out of the 3 claimed votes on you is Scum. But if Scum is going to lie about their votes like at the very least one has done, why wouldn't all of them do so?


As I posited earlier, it's my assumption that both you and Gnomeo were scum. I am now considering if Scum split the votes so that regardless which of you or Gnomeo flipped, the other might look better for it, but not know which was going to be the majority side of town, the split was going to be necessary.

F-16 is spot on with his analysis of Desperado's plan and it's all WIFOM. I highly doubt any HOH would even do it considering I just asked to be a pawn yeserday and was shot down. Paranoia indicated there might be a way for the scum to force evict a pawn. You were here when this conversation took place (though you failed to mention anything about it), so are you thinking there is no way for the pawn to get lynched if he was put up against you?

[Desperado]

Right, so you think Gnomeo and I are both scum and two of Bulb/Toast/IceGuy split the votes, then one lied about it.

Doesn't that contradict your theory that they were looking for towncred no matter which way it shook out?

[BBmolla]

I'm sort of unsure about voting Imperium again. I still think its unwise to vote someone HoH twice in a row, as it gives one person who could still be scum too much control. I'm fairly sure he's town, but I'd rather have someone like F-16 be HoH

Holy shit Toasty, you're scum aren't you?

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 2.06:

Imperium - BBmolla, Rach, Titus, Desp, Minions (L-2)

Not voting - Ice, Toasty, Toogeloo, keyblade, Imperium, f-16, Bulb

With 12 alive it takes 7 to elect an HoH. Currently Imperium will be made the HoH as they have the most votes.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-09-23 16:00:42) or by 3:00 PM on September 23rd, 2013

keybladewielder is V/LA until Saturday.

[Desperado]

so are you thinking there is no way for the pawn to get lynched if he was put up against you?

Also, why would you be afraid of this happening again? Under your theory the worst case scenario is 7 town votes vs 2 scum votes. They would need three townies to vote the pawn in order to secure the ML.

[Toogeloo]

Doesn't that contradict your theory that they were looking for towncred no matter which way it shook out?

I think this actually makes it more viable for them to hide in plain sight since the votes wouldn't match up. If it went down 8-2/1, then the 1/2 votes could have lied about it and we'd never know.

The fact that there is a liar makes it more likely that the votes were split, and it's more likely that the scum put two votes on Gnomeo and 1 vote on you if anything.

so are you thinking there is no way for the pawn to get lynched if he was put up against you?

Also, why would you be afraid of this happening again? Under your theory the worst case scenario is 7 town votes vs 2 scum votes. They would need three townies to vote the pawn in order to secure the ML.

To quote my favorite Chenbot... "Expect the Unexpected." We weren't anticipating there to be a Day Kill, and sometimes in Big Brother... the pawn goes home. It's good to have a healthy bit of paranoia since the scum are going to have unconventional ways to get rid of town folk that will impede their win condition. People think an unlimited Day Vig is too powerful, so what's the next best way to kill non-scum? Vote Manipulation.

[Desperado]

The fact that there is a liar makes it more likely that the votes were split, and it's more likely that the scum put two votes on Gnomeo and 1 vote on you if anything.

You're making this up as you go along aren't you? There are only 4 scum. How would they have 5 votes?

[Desperado]

To quote my favorite Chenbot... "Expect the Unexpected." We weren't anticipating there to be a Day Kill, and sometimes in Big Brother... the pawn goes home. It's good to have a healthy bit of paranoia since the scum are going to have unconventional ways to get rid of town folk that will impede their win condition. People think an unlimited Day Vig is too powerful, so what's the next best way to kill non-scum? Vote Manipulation.

This doesn't make any sense either. Under your theory If I'm nominated with a pawn the scum only control 20% of the vote. How would they use vote manipulation to get the pawn lynched?

[Desperado]

The fact that there is a liar makes it more likely that the votes were split, and it's more likely that the scum put two votes on Gnomeo and 1 vote on you if anything.

You're making this up as you go along aren't you? There are only 4 scum. How would they have 5 votes?

This is unclear. There are only 4 scum and you think two of them got nominated, yet you are crediting them with 3 votes here when they only had 2 last night.

Because you know I'm town and you know the scum actually did have 3 votes, I'm guessing.

[Toogeloo]

You're making this up as you go along aren't you? There are only 4 scum. How would they have 5 votes?

Ok, 1 and 1. The fact that Nominees can't vote is still hasn't completely processed in my brain.

[Toogeloo]

And actually, it makes more sense in this case. If one scum voted for you, and the other voted for Gnomeo, then one told the truth about their vote, and the other lied to move to the more dominant wagon. I had a feeling that Rach and F-16 were both town after the vote claims, and this makes things much clearer for me.

[Bulbazak]

Someone tell me when they will be here so we can quick hammer Imperium.

In a hurry for the day to end?

Did you miss earlier discussion, or...?

No, but I think there's a lot more to talk about before we quick nominate a HoH. I think Toogeloo just wants to cut discussions short.

The way we should be doing this is pseudovoting for people we want to lynch and directing the HoH to do what we want to do. No danger in a scum HoH in this situation.

This was talked about d1. Do you have any original content?

Because, after ISOing the both of them, I felt Gnomeo was more scummy.

Why?

I didn't like how he gave full reads rather early in the game.

Walk me through how that's a scumtell, because that seems like a weak justification for a vote.

so are you thinking there is no way for the pawn to get lynched if he was put up against you?

Also, why would you be afraid of this happening again? Under your theory the worst case scenario is 7 town votes vs 2 scum votes. They would need three townies to vote the pawn in order to secure the ML.

To quote my favorite Chenbot... "Expect the Unexpected." We weren't anticipating there to be a Day Kill, and sometimes in Big Brother... the pawn goes home. It's good to have a healthy bit of paranoia since the scum are going to have unconventional ways to get rid of town folk that will impede their win condition. People think an unlimited Day Vig is too powerful, so what's the next best way to kill non-scum? Vote Manipulation.

Wait...what? This is like a complete 180 from yesterday.

The fact that there is a liar makes it more likely that the votes were split, and it's more likely that the scum put two votes on Gnomeo and 1 vote on you if anything.

You're making this up as you go along aren't you? There are only 4 scum. How would they have 5 votes?

This is unclear. There are only 4 scum and you think two of them got nominated, yet you are crediting them with 3 votes here when they only had 2 last night.

Because you know I'm town and you know the scum actually did have 3 votes, I'm guessing.

You're starting to see it too, aren't you?

Evict Toogeloo 2013.

P-edit: And then you completely ignore Desperado's questions...

[Titus]

Togelloo, I believe (without looking up) that Gnomeo was asked to give full reads so the fact that he did so is not scummy. He was scum but not for that.

Imperium, you seem to think KBW is town. I absolutely still disagree with that.

[Bulbazak]

Togelloo, I believe (without looking up) that Gnomeo was asked to give full reads so the fact that he did so is not scummy. He was scum but not for that.

That was IceGuy. It'd be even worse if it came from Toogeloo, because that sounds like a weak justification to me.

[Toogeloo]

Wait...what? This is like a complete 180 from yesterday.

I had asked to be a pawn, but Imperium and BBmolla opened my eyes to reasons why it's not a good idea. I am reiterating why they said it, and why I am inclined to agree. I wouldn't call it a 180 moreso it was a "I didn't think things through entirely when I came up with the idea," thing.

P-edit: And then you completely ignore Desperado's questions...

I answered his votes question because as I said, I still got a bit confused that nominees can't vote. The fact that he himself stated that he voted last night didn't help my recognizance of that fact.

His only other question was asking how scum can manipulate votes, and I can't answer that. I can say that there is no night action phase, and without being able to kill at night, scum needs ways to get rid of town that are "too town" to be lynched. The Day kill happened yesterday, but people have been adamant about how OP it would be for scum to have more than one or two shots of that. So the only other way I can think of given the info we currently have to work with is that they might have some way to fuck with the votes at night to evict the player they want, or at least try to, like maybe the minority voted player goes home, or they use a coup d'tat power and only one vote is counted and that's it. Who knows. But in order for this game to not be totally borked against the scum team, they need ways to be able to kill players that won't ever be lynched.

[ToastyToast]

I'm sort of unsure about voting Imperium again. I still think its unwise to vote someone HoH twice in a row, as it gives one person who could still be scum too much control. I'm fairly sure he's town, but I'd rather have someone like F-16 be HoH

Holy shit Toasty, you're scum aren't you?

No, I was pretty clear that I didn't want HoH two nights in a row under any circumstances.

[BBmolla]

I'm sort of unsure about voting Imperium again. I still think its unwise to vote someone HoH twice in a row, as it gives one person who could still be scum too much control. I'm fairly sure he's town, but I'd rather have someone like F-16 be HoH

Holy shit Toasty, you're scum aren't you?

No, I was pretty clear that I didn't want HoH two nights in a row under any circumstances.

Yeah never mind, I don't know why that came off as scummy to me.

[Imperium]

Imperium, you seem to think KBW is town. I absolutely still disagree with that.

Why?

The KBW as town is nachos read. I have a hard time reading players like her though I did catch her as scum once, but she was really obvious.

[Imperium]

Okay so I'm going to try to go through some stuff. I'm really sick right now though and have taken medicine, if I say really stupid stuff, that's worse than the stupid stuff I normally say, just ignore it...thanks.

But what I'm thinking is that we definitely know there's a liar in the gnomeo votes, right? I'd like to look there.

[Imperium]

[7]

Gnomeo

-

BBmolla, *Desperado*, Keyblade,

Bulba

,

Minions, Toasty, Titus,

IceGuy

[3]

Desperado

-

Rach

,

F-16, Toogeloo

My take fits fairly well.

[Imperium]

Okay so from the gnomeo voters we have town reads on BBMolla and Titus. I'm depending on nacho for the kbw read but that's a town one.

So bulba, minions, toasty, ice guy is where I'd like to look. Our resolve on bulba!scum started cracking yesterday. Toasty has looked scummy but been town in the games both head has played with him. Minions has at least one experienced and good scum player in there. And ice guy is ice guy.

[Imperium]

To be fair, I don't want the same person HOH twice. It's not very good. What if Imperium is scum, hiding? He could essentially be getting all the power.

Titus what do you think about this? I thought this sounded like a good bit of town paranoia.

[Imperium]

Okay yeah, we have decent enough townreads on the desperado voters to look mostly at the gnomeo ones. We're not positive on falcon because of some reservations concerning blackberry, but falcon looks fine for the most part. There's something I'm looking for from falcon though to be sure.

I don't get the suspicion on toogeloo as we both think he looks really really town, and nacho is reading rach as town, though I will say that though the minions are frustrated with the way she is reading them, it's a really town minded process. I have a hard time seeing her reading them that way as scum.

[Imperium]

Nacho is still reading desperado as scum I believe. I'm the waffly horrible head who has doubts.

BUT if desperado is scum then only two scum votes were in play yesterday, not sure what that means but it felt like a revelation ad few seconds ago.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'm here Tammy. What are you looking for?