Mini 1496: The Cash Cabd (Game Over)

[Cabd]

Vote Count of the First City, Sixth Block

Players Alive: 13
Votes to Lynch: 7
Format of:
Wagon (size): Voters on wagon

Rail Tracer (1): FuDuzn
Mogamma (1): Mario and the Diamonds
Notscience (1): Natirasha, artemiskitty
FuDuzn (2): Mogamma, Dessew,
Dessew (1): Notscience
Daniel Bryan (3): Rebel Without a Pulse, Rail Tracer. Brian Skies
Brian Skies (1): Daniel Bryan
Natirasha (1): Humble Poirot

Not voting: Sound of Silence

Deadline for Day One falls on: 9/30/13 which is (expired on 2013-09-23 19:00:00)

[Natirasha]

Alright, folks.

So, here were my first thoughts on the game.
Humble Poirot: Well, that's the townieiest hydra-hatred I've ever seen.
Saki: Goddamn, he claimed PGO? WTF
Page 6: Oh thank god, Saki retracted that claim.

I will confirm that I are not a PGO

. The normal review group wouldn't even probably allow a game through that had a PGO because the role is so inherently swingy and semi-bastardly.

Then I got kinda bored. Reading pages of text bores me at times. Ten minutes later, I came back, so let's see what I see.

ffery is busy being obvtown as usual(you should really fix that for your scum play btw).
Nacho's not being an obstinate jackoff, so he's likely town.
Mala's quietness early on was annoying, but the catchup was...acceptable enough.
HumblePoirot: Holy shit town and a half, I think he's actually got, ffery. Step it up!
BrianSkye's a pretty friendly dude and hasn't done anything to particularly ping my radar. Interested in the game, asking questions. Is it possible we have a good newbie on the site now?
notscience: I know he's talked to me in chat before about "changing his meta", but he's not confbiasing enough for me to successfully read him as town. ns has a tendency to go into these stupid tunnels, but unlike Wisdom or the professional tunnelers, just sort of does nothing with them. Points in his favor: never said the words "I'm obvtown".
Rail Tracer: Straight up, I've read your posts, but I can't actually remember any of them. Throw you in the null right now.
Mario: I understand you're an alt(a shitty alt at that), but come on.
Daniel Bryan: Is this a wagon for lurking? Or just because of he hasn't done anything? Both? I can't say I'm against it, but I'm going to fencesit before joining up.
Others: I either forgot you exist or your so inconsequential at the moment as to be beneath my notice. If you're scum, you probably want to keep it that way. If you're town, come and participate so I can add you to the list--nacho and ffery are good players and will be able to sort you out.

UNVOTE: for the moment.

[Sound of Silence]

Hi Nati.

I thought GiF was the easier head to read.

[Natirasha]

He was at that moment, but I figured out I always read you as town for a reason, then I looked over Xenologue again+talked to our gracious host about meta(not this game mind you) and realized that the reason I always read you as town is because you are really transparent--the only game I've seen you be scum in(Xenologue), well, you posted twice?

[Natirasha]

I think MoS also mentioned something about you being easy to read as town, too, so there's that.

[Sound of Silence]

He was at that moment, but I figured out I always read you as town for a reason, then I looked over Xenologue again+talked to our gracious host about meta(not this game mind you) and realized that the reason I always read you as town is because you are really transparent--the only game I've seen you be scum in(Xenologue), well, you posted twice?

I think MoS also mentioned something about you being easy to read as town, too, so there's that.

MoS?

I posted WAY more than twice, even while you were in the game.

But, my town game is pretty transparent, which makes my scum game obvious. Even when I'm being opaque, it's transparently opaque in an "Ima be opaque now" kind of way.

[Mogamma]

Hi folks, excited to finally play a real game on the site! I'm starting to work my way through but a simple breakdown by whoever feels like it would be awesome, too.

[Sound of Silence]

Hi folks, excited to finally play a real game on the site! I'm starting to work my way through but a simple breakdown by whoever feels like it would be awesome, too.

There are no claims (aside from a PGO claim by Nati's predecessor that was later retracted). Everyone is still in the stage of forming and refining reads. You're probably better off just reading and coming to your own conclusions. Fortunately it hasn't been a blistering game pace.

[Natirasha]

Sorry CES. All those old-timers have similar initials.

[notscience]

Nati, don't tempt me.

You haven't even seen VT yet and she's like legend-levle newbie.

Hey Mog, just reread and give your own reads.

[Mogamma]

I am reading but I was hoping to get in the game while I work through -- and if people articulate their own summations, I have something to analyze right away, plus I can compare it with the actual game as I move through it.

[Mogamma]

I haven't finished reading the game yet but Rail's tunnel on HP is really bad -- it should have died down by pg 5 or so.

[notscience]

Define "bad"?

Scummy, or just bad play?

[Mogamma]

SOS, HP, Dessew, Rebel, Brian and artemis are probably town. I'm pretty confident in those reads. I liked notscience's transparency as well. I haven't seen any major scum-tells worth noting yet other than Rail's tunnel. It felt like any potential reason to vote HP was resolved by pg 6, and continuing to push him even at pg 8 made no sense. It's hard to tell with that kind of thing if it's confirmation bias or scum not recognizing when to back off, plus I like Rail's tone and aggressive questioning, so I'm still hesitant to call him/her scum yet.

[Mogamma]

I'm not done reading the game btw, on pg 10.

[artemiskitty]

Nati - we are a hydra so I have only had one major catch up and the rest was pretty much Mantis.

[Rail Tracer]

long wall about DB

i share most of these thoughts about #152, which is why i keep saying i don't understand how people are reading it as town when i was mostly null on it.

and i agree with the general conclusion here

long post of nothing

do you have no scum reads?

[Brian Skies]

Brian: I don't get what outdated information you're talking about. What wasn't scummotivated? The hydra-thing?

Yeah. I was up to speed as far as isolation #10 for HP. But there were still a few big posts I wanted to read before I sorted him. I was just tired and didn't feel like reading through them at the time.

And yeah, I don't think the hydra-thing is scum-motivated. Or at least that's what I'm getting from his reactions.

What concerns me about the don't have scumreads attitude is that saying someone is town is easy and risk free. It's diplomatically convinient even and, doesn't necessarily commit you as scum, since "new damning evidence" can always be found (or fabricated).

Even more so, you can't (at least not with many players), push a lynch saying, you're in the pool of "remaining players" so you probably are scum.

Specially when there's lots of players in that pool and, even if there weren't, if you don't provide good cases for the town pool players to actually BE town.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't see a lack of scumreads in any of the reads lists. The only problem I can see is the term usage. SoS didn't have any concrete town reads, but he did have "leaning" town reads. It was obvious that these were the ones he felt most comfortable with because of their placement on the list. RWaP's list was completely different in that it didn't label anyone as scum. But it's pretty obvious who the hydra suspects most.

As for me, this is just how I write my reads list. I use quantifiers because I don't believe in absolutes when dealing with the unknown (ingrained into me from philosophy and English courses). That's just the way I am and it isn't indicative for me. If you are still having a problem with my list, just assume that any read with the word town is someone I believe to be innocent and anyone with the word scum in the read to be someone I believe to be scum. If I'm fencesitting for whatever reason, the read will just read as "null."

Regarding the last part, this isn't what I said and you know it. Creating a townblock is just another strategy that people may use. This creates an inner circle of trust and allows the players in the inner circle to create more pressure for the players outside of the circle. When the town circle is big enough, it makes it much more difficult for scum to avoid the pressure and makes it easier to catch them. Am I saying this is the most effective strategy? No. What I am saying is that this is a strategy that players may decide to use when they have really strong, mutual townreads. But if a scum does find a way in, then the strategy becomes moot.

As for your DB vote, do you realize you seem to have a pattern where you just follow the current trend? Is the DB vote real? Why do you think he is scum ("falling on my reads" is too vague) and how confident are you about it?

What makes you think I'm just following the trend? So far I've had an RVS vote on artemiskitty, one vote on you as I was trying to get a read, and now a vote on Daniel Bryan. My last two votes have been on players I've been suspicious of and people I felt were strong candidates to be scum. I hardly consider two votes to be following the trend.

The DB vote IS real. Like I said before, I read his early catch-up post to be pretty genuine. But he seems to be getting way too hung-up on innocuous details. Either he's not reading thoroughly enough or he's looking for superficial things to comment on to make himself look busy. It just doesn't feel right to me.

[Natirasha]

They'll come, no worries, Rail Tracer. My post isn't particularly long though.

[Rail Tracer]

it was long for a post that didn't give me any useful information. you have like two or three town reads and you're fence sitting on the rest of the game is all i got from it.

[Natirasha]

Yeah, I know. I've been in this game for like six hours, let me figure out the tempo and I'll get back to you.

[Rail Tracer]

how are you going to figure out 'the tempo' and how is that going to help you get reads if reading the game didn't help?

[Rail Tracer]

although i'm not entirely sure you have read the game because the comment about db makes little sense

[Natirasha]

Alright, I did read the game. That's a rarity--when I replace in, I usually don't. But, here's the thing with me and reading games--I get really bored, words mesh together. Call it a personal failing if you wish. So, yes, I probably did miss the case vs db. Outside of his lurking, would you be kind enough to point me to a post with the case vs DB or summarize it yourself?

Tempo is my version of scumhunting, I guess. I've mentioned the term before in games before, but I don't think I've ever elucidated on what it means. I don't particularly feel like it either--mostly because I don't really know how to verbalize the explanation myself.

[Sound of Silence]

Tempo is my version of scumhunting, I guess. I've mentioned the term before in games before, but I don't think I've ever elucidated on what it means. I don't particularly feel like it either--mostly because I don't really know how to verbalize the explanation myself.

Sapir–Whorf hypothesis.

I'm seriously going to start a mafia discussion thread about this one day soon.