Newbie 1419 - GAME OVER

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, why did you ask this.

Because I haven't decided myself.

[Brian Skies]

I thought Nacho was the PR ftr, especially towards the end of Day 2.

Why did you think this? Also, does this make me confirmed PR?

Brian, why do you think ns is scum?

I never said this. I just said it's not looking good for him.

I'm townreading you right now (although not discounting super OP IC bus FTW). So it's just pretty much a toss-up between Shii and NS right now. I haven't actually had a chance yet to go through the entire game again, so yea...

[Brian Skies]

Okay, so I'm just not in the mood right now because it's late and I'm tired. But tomorrow I will have the time to finally post my giant walls. Look forward to them.

Also, I would like it if Shii would provide the reasoning for his suspicion on notscience from Day 2, even if it isn't applicable anymore.

[Brian Skies]

The notscience Wall-Post

21

Really? You got a slight townread off a bandwagon vote?

46

Comments on the gambit, but doesn't provide an opinion on it (ever).

53, 55, 57

Doesn't take much for notscience to vote Titus. Takes JKM's reasoning and runs with it.

59

I like the confrontation.

79, 81

Adequately fills the logical disconnection for her argument.

90

I like this post because I had the same issue with Titus.

92

I didn't have any opinions yet. But why ask me mine without offering yours?

96

What is this shit? Why not do something with it? It's not RVS anymore.

103

You ask for my reads again. Where are yours? What about the other players in the game? Why is it so important for you to have my reads in particular? Gaiden is in this game too!

110

Then why did you vote her? What did you get out of the vote? What have you gotten out of that vote?

114

This makes me happy that you're proving you're following the game. But, I don't know if I should be concerned of buddying at this point.

135

I didn't like this post. The reaction directed towards Shii was terrible. I also don't get how you got to a Verbs/Titus scumteam so fast.

139-143

There is discussion between Titus and Notscience regarding whether or not Titus was coaching me. I don't know what to make out of it, but I'm not liking it. Thoughts?

176-198

This is where I get a good townlean for notscience. There is some paranoia here, but it feels like good paranoia. Also, JKM was getting way too scummy.

230

I like the pick-up on Flammus, but I'm surprised this didn't ping any suspcion for you. This gave me a ton of red flags as he could have said it about anyone but chose Gaiden, one of the least active, to attribute it to.

239-242

What is this crap?

245-251

Explain. These posts just don't sit right with me because it just looks like buddying.

270

You disagree? Why?

272

Okay, this is Phok's post. But look where notscience is placed and the reasoning. Distancing?

274

Why not just accuse him of being scum and create pressure? If you're scum, why not just bus him?

278-282

Well, post 276 is kind of misleading based on the placement of the quotes. But how are you not able to explain it? We just spent an entire page with you forcing us off a Verbs wagon.

288-294

This goes back to the whole Verbs wagon thing. Why not just say this in the last group of posts?

300

Why?

304

JKM's slot wasn't anything spectacular and people can sub for a variety of reasons. Plus, JKM was the scummiest person on the Verbs wagon. The reasoning is weak. Shii seemed way more town to me.

309

Meta stuff. Not my thing.

315

More meta stuff talking about universal scumreads hitting town.

317-321

Whether or not you've been having luck, why not help the town do their job anyways? Right now it just feels like you are making other people do the work for you.

326

This post made me laugh. But in all seriousness, you just said the JKM slot was probably town.

332

I understand the vote change. But why Titus?

335

I like this post. Didn't take Nacho's post at face value.

345

Jumping on the wagon that I wanted to be on. (T.T) Where is the reasoning though? This was a slot you were buddying for most of the game. Now that it's about to get lynched, you force the L-1.
* notscience disappears for the rest of the day. Read into that however you wish.


*Day 2 starts with AtE and possible scum theatrics.

493, 495

Why the hard push on meta? Shii isn't even voting you. Terrible reaction imo.

501

Patting yourself on the back? For what? Yes, you were on the wagon. Yes, you caused the L-1. No, you did not provide anything useful in getting that lynch other than providing us your vote.

511

Oh look! Something that slightly resembles a reads list! With no reasoning...

520

More meta stuff that most of the players don't care about. Instead of pushing your meta onto us, how about convincing us you're town?

529

Why? Why not Shii? Why do I have to do it when I've been reading Shii as town up to this point? Why does Nacho have to do it when she's been reading Shii as town since almost the beginning of the game?

536

Why should he? You haven't given him any reason to treat you as town.

546, 548, 549

More meta pushing that no one wants.

556

This isn't indicative for me, but someone else might see something.

619

We didn't, actually. Why so keen for a hammer? Why not wait to see what Titus has to say? Or Verbs?

632,635

Why Nacho? I thought she was in your townblock. Investigative roles are there to make the game easier for town, not to make you feel good about your reads.

643

Good catch.

649

I'm sure I understood what the first line was referring to the first time I read it. I don't anymore.

653

Albeit sarcastic, WIFOM?

Spoiler:

Day 3 concerns
Why are you so sure Nacho is town? What happened to that Nacho paranoia of yours?

Things to consider:
-Was on every bandwagon.
-Possible buddying with Gaiden until Phok was suspected.
-Took credit for the Phok lynch even though there was almost no contribution.
-Didn't seem very beneficial to the town and didn't offer much insight in terms of opinions or reads for most of the game.
-Almost entirely relies on meta to confirm self as town.
-Phok's reads had notscience as the scummiest and for terrible reasoning (distancing?).

-Prevented a terrible Verbs wagon based on good paranoia and super scummy JKM.

[Brian Skies]

The Nacho Wall-Post

82,83,93,98

First appearance and immediately provides discussion generating content.

122, 200

Helps generate content. The IC interactions feel genuine and Nacho still finds a way to let us know his opinions without revealing everything. I'm also liking the read on Titus' slot up to this point because you were the only one who saw it this way. If you were scum, I think you would have been more likely to go with the general concensus. Also, where is the suspicion on Gaiden up to this point?

201

Good vote. Wasn't afraid to start the wagon.

204, 222

I liked the interactions between Nacho/Verbs and Nacho/JKM. I can see the scumminess Nacho points out in JKM. Also, how do you view NS and Titus not voting the JKM slot now?

267

Finds a valid reason to stay off the Verbs wagon. Starts to find Gaiden suspicious. I think this is important and explains Nacho's later wagon-starting vote. Also, I'd like some elaboration on the notscience townread in this post. Good pressure on JKM.

269

Claims Shii is town. I have a pretty good idea why you would think this, but you should humour me and explain it anyways.

271

I like the reaction in this post.

306

I don't think this slot is indicative, but I wouldn't mind if someone provided their own thoughts on it.

307

Here are Nacho's initial suspicions of notscience, and I think it's warranted.

308

Why?

313

Another post I don't find indicative but decided to include anyways.

316-323

I find the reasoning against notscience to be genuine and I can see where this might be coming from.

324-333

Bert does his thing. Nacho votes Phok, the suspicious and unsorted slot from post 267.

334

Why? How do you feel now?

339

I guess so.

340

I like this reasoning. How do you feel about the slot being linked to notscience?

349

Good reaction/reasoning.

353

This is warranted because JKM was super scummy in my opinion.

364

Who is the most likely scumteam to you now?

371

Why are you so sure that Bert isn't scum?

373-374

Don't really see the motivation for Nacho bussing her partner at this point. The wagon was started by Nacho and was pushed pretty heavily even in the face of a Titus flashwagon.

380

Still pretty sure Bert is town. Meta is a scary thing.

386

I like this post, but only because Titus was wrong (please forgive me Titus).

389,390

What did Titus post that made you breathe more evenly?

441, 443

Stands by the lynch. I'm townreading this, but I wouldn't mind other people's opinions on it.

450, 452

I don't know how to read these posts. Seems adamant about getting more information at her own expense.

*Day 2 Nacho/notscience begin the day with AtE

462

This post seems a little too brash to me. But I'm liking the demand for investigative information.

464

Still a little bit brash in this post. But as a whole, I guess I like the content.

467-468

I'm assuming this is a joke.

471

At least until the PR comes out and nullifies both of your lynch candidates.

476

You rang?

477

Seems open to other opinions.

481

Too funny on the re-read.

482

I'm taking this advice to heart considering I tunneled pretty badly.

498

Getting pretty annoyed that the investigative PR hasn't outed. But this isn't indicative to me at this point.

507

I'm liking the paranoia.

508

I'm liking the openness to other people possibly being scum. Especially Flammus because the slot was pretty scummy.

516

Seems pretty happy to find that Titus claimed VT. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing.

526,527

Still open to Titus being town. I don't know how to read these posts though.

535

Townblock talk.

542

I'm liking how Nacho can understand not everyone takes meta at face value.

545-onwards

Nacho presents a hard case. Flammus is screwed.

552-553

What about your position? You were in the same position as Shii!

555

I like the logic in this post.

560

I like this post a lot too.

565

There is a pretty hard stance on the Flammus lynch (that makes two hard stances for the wagon votes).

570

Nacho already planting his seeds of fear and terror into me.

573

I don't find the logic in this post to be indicative.

574

And yes. He was pretty cheeky.

580

Provides strong logic to support 573.

590

The content before this just paints Flammus as obvscum (even though he wasn't). I don't find this post indicative because there was a 50% chance of there being a doctor to protect Flammus. The confidence isn't misplaced.

594

Willing to take more information from obvscum Flammus.

598

Until it did.

599

Strategic tracking advice.

600, 601

More reason to believe Nacho had good reason to be confident in the lynch.

639, 640

I don't find this indicative because we are essentially wasting time. No one is providing any content that was opposed to hammering Flammus.
*Flammus provides some good logic towards the end, but the evidence against him was pretty damn strong. A stronger defense may have saved him.

664

Nacho outs the PR, which is what we needed.

674

Questions the townread.

679

I like how Nacho questions reasoning that may (or may not) be in his favor.

687

I like this post.

693

I never said this, but when you see the upcoming wall-posts, you can see my suspicions.

Spoiler:

Day 3 Concerns
None currently. Seems pro-town thus far.

Things to Consider:
-Was on both lynch-wagons, but provided adequate reasoning for both.
-Had hard stances on both wagons.
-Generated a ton of discussion throughout the game, almost all (if not all) of which seems town-motivated.
-Even though a lot of the discussion seemed to be lead as an IC, stances and opinions could be found in the posts.
-Looks beyond the surface and avoids accepting the general concensus and easy wagons.
-The Phok lynch can be mostly attributed to Nacho (and Bert).
-Unlikely Nacho would have needed to bus Phok at this point (flashwagon on Titus was available).
-Few, if any, logical disconnections in arguments.

-AtE/brashness at Day 2's start.
-Possibility for a bus on the partner to solidy a townread.

[Brian Skies]

The Shiidaji Wall-Post

102, 108

First appearance and catch-up post. I felt 108 was pretty genuine. I could clearly see the thought processes as I followed along through the game. A lot of the thoughts expressed in this post match mine.

109

Great point regarding the M-M gambit even though Verbs and I kind of ran away with it.

118

I like this post. Attacks Verbs because he sees a logical disconnection. Also tells notscience and me to do something useful with our votes.

119

Attacks the M-M gambit himself with the perfect approach. M-M ruins it by either not being active or using the gambit properly.

132

More concern about notscience's vote. The reaction was good though. I like how Shii questions Nacho's townread on Titus. The logic against Verbs seems good. Although I'm pretty sure Shii gets hung-up on this later on.

133

Shii gets hung-up on how quantified the logic in the post is. JKM later jumps on this, but I don't think his scumminess and this point are related.

154

I'm assuming a lot of people got a townread off of this post. In hindsight, I don't like this post. It gives me bad vibes.

226

I like the reaction to notscience. Gets a townish vibe on Titus based on Titus' reactions to notscience saying she was coaching me. Titus' ask for a claim nullifies this a bit. Points out that he doesn't agree with JKM's argument against Verbs, even though it leads to the same result. Gaiden starts to ping his radar. Pushes the Verbs wagon some more. Gets a townread on me. I didn't comment on it before, but this is the second post that Shii directly asks for opinions from Nacho and me. This time it regards Gaiden and notscience. I would like it if Shii can elaborate what he was thinking about those slots at this time.

275

Says hes getting townvibes from Titus (which I can see). Agrees with most of my stances (I'm assuming Shii and I have been on a pretty good wavelength up to this point). I can't say he was buddying me because his prior posts and reads point to my reads (especially Gaiden). I like the logic regarding mostly everything else in this post. Wait, your reads match-up closely with Phok's? Didn't that seem a little odd to you? What about his read on notscience?

276

I liked this post, but the quote placement seemed misleading. I like the push on notscience and the reaction.

289

Really? What changed your read on notscience between 226 and now?

291, 293

I liked the interactions here between Shii and notscience.

402

Deadline day. Shiidaji appears! Says he needs to read up.

436

Shii doesn't catch-up in time. Expresses earliest concerns about notscience in this post (see post 307 where Nacho loses faith). Shows some confidence in the lynch based on Phok only reacting to the vote on him.

439

Can you explain the logic behind the scumteams for me?

470

Vote and logic is consistent with 439. Shows more concern for notscience (consistent with Day 1).

475

The logic here shows a pretty good disconnection between Gaiden and Verbs (and why Shii thinks the two cannot be linked). It also shows why notscience seems fishy in 248.

478

Reinforces the notscience suspicion (dammit Shii, why did I tunnel so hard?). I don't understand the part about post 178 though. Elaborate, please. But I really like the part about post 251.

484

Oh hey! Here's the distancing I was worried about in my first wall! I should have done this wall first.

485

More uneasiness regarding notscience.

488, 492

I'm pretty sure I missed the whole point of these posts the first time around. I'm understanding why Shii didn't jump on the Flammus wagon from 492.

494

I like Shii's reaction to notscience. Notscience's reaction, not so much.

500

This is consistent with the way Shii has been reading notscience all game.

519

Hahahahahaha! Also, I do find it weird that notscience was so ready to lynch Phok after buddying the slot for most of the game.

534

I like this post.

576

Stands by his stance of Flammus being town. This is pretty consistent with previous posts.

627

I like this. I was being pretty scummy (and I figured I was going to be when I made some of those posts).

630

I'm liking Shii's reasoning. It is consistent even though I am clearly not comprehending anything Shii has been saying. This may explain why Shii ignores the discussion later on.
*I'm wondering if Titus hammered before Shii could come back from hiking in time to post. Would it have made a difference?

694-696

Why Nacho? Also, the notscience suspicion has been consistent since the end of Day 1 now.

Spoiler:

Day 3 Concerns
I'm still finding that Nacho vote weird. But other than that, Day 3 activity has been pretty consistent.

Things to Consider:
-Was not on either lynch-wagon.
-Had hard stance against Flammus wagon (not sure but I think the Phok wagon too).
-Consistent reads.
-Reads are not easily influenced by other players or situations.
-Biased - I see a lot of things Shii sees and I feel like we are on a pretty good wavelength (despite my Day 2 foul up).

-Help me out here, I'm having trouble thinking of scum-motivation (totally wasn't expecting this).

[Brian Skies]

The Small Post

These wall-posts are posted in the order I did them. So I highly encourage reading them in that order. If you are having trouble following or just don't care, you can skip to the spoilers. There should be questions and concerns in the wall-posts though.

Also, the wall-posts were originally generated in notepad. So if there are mistakes, typos, or unclear statements, please let me know. I encourage discussion.

@Titus: Since you are the only confirmed town, I am looking most forward to your opinions.

Meanwhile:

[Titus]

Acknowledged Brian. Now that I know you're town this will be interesting to work through this. I know our main objective is to find scum. Yet, if we can clear one as town, then the scum cannot win. Three towns versus one scum is a recipe for disaster given the size of the game. I'll put up my own (smaller) walls and respond to some concerns I see in the posts. For instance, you seem to think logic = town. Not always so. Nacho has to deserve some scum points for how the Flammus lynch went down.

[Brian Skies]

Acknowledged Brian.

Now that I know you're town this will be interesting to work through this.

I know our main objective is to find scum. Yet, if we can clear one as town, then the scum cannot win. Three towns versus one scum is a recipe for disaster given the size of the game. I'll put up my own (smaller) walls and respond to some concerns I see in the posts. For instance, you seem to think logic = town. Not always so. Nacho has to deserve some scum points for how the Flammus lynch went down.

The bold part makes me laugh considering all your end of Day 1 scum reads ended up being town.

But yes. I do give Nacho some scum points. As for Shii, he floats back to the top of my super-awesome town vibes list. If you think otherwise, that's cool too.

[Nachomamma8]

DAMN

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA until Tuesday

Hopefully gonna be back monday but you never know.

[Nachomamma8]

god that is some quality reading
congratulations, this is officially the only game i am gonna do any work whatsoever in!

[Nachomamma8]

post tags are p much god tier for the record and make your posts look really really pretty

389

don't know what post that was but doesn't matter, so easy

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: notscience

[Brian Skies]

I don't know how to do post tags (T.T).

And I don't want to vote yet because I want Titus' thoughts on what we do if, for whatever reason, notscience flips town.

[notscience]

</3 Nacho

"for whatever reason"

I'm GOING to flip town.

Not MAYBE.

[Brian Skies]

Then help us out and find the scum so we don't mess up LYLO.

[notscience]

Have you totally ignored everything I've said today?

[Brian Skies]

I haven't.

But I'm concerned about Nacho and Shii, mostly Nacho though. I'm waiting for Titus to confirm my suspicions. If you think there is anything weird about either of them, now is the time to bring it up.

Also, Shii seems to be concerned about Nacho for some reason.

[Brian Skies]

You aren't conf-scum just because the game makes it look that way. If you're town, defend yourself and either find us a good town for the townblock or find us the scum.

[notscience]

...

Read what I've said today.

READ WHAT SHII HAS SAID TODAY AND THEN LOOK AT THAT LAST LINE OF YOUR STATEMENT 2 POSTS AGO

[Brian Skies]

Looool

I made a typo. I've already read everything you've said.

[notscience]

Brian, remember what Shii said about scum needing to push 2 MLs to win and me having a townread on Nacho is weird (especially with how strong it is) and then Shii went all paranoid?

[Brian Skies]

Nacho, if Bert townreads you then dies I see literally 0 reason to kill him from you. Why? Because I personally believe hydrae partners are really good at reading each other (although I admittedly can't read Bert as well as say DP or TIP), so I'm not really plussed about it.

This is one of the reasons why I think Nacho is suspicious. Nacho already got the townread from Bert, so I don't see any reason scum-Nacho would have to keep Bert around.

[Brian Skies]

Not to mention, Nacho let me tunnel on Flammus without taking Shii's argument into account on Day 2. I understand I baited Nacho into that tunnel, but still. Nacho is usually more aware than that.