Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Venmar]

Sorry I'm out of town right now, I'm in Seattle and u will only be back home Monday.

I'm V/LA until then since I don't have access to an actual computer or have a stable/reliable wifi connection.

[Aj The Epic]

what are your current reads, AJ?

i thought the only reason you were fine with lynching nick is because you wanted to lynch mala today.

why are you not voting anyone?

Town (In no order other than how I list them)
Mastin
Muffin
Trust Fund
Ghostlin
FTL
Andrius
Notscience
Mutley


Null
Venmar (Solely here because of Mastin town reading him)
TD
Mac

LeanScum
Nacho
Desp

Scum
Bro
Mala

Also, can I ask what made YOU change your mind on Mala? You were deadset against mala's lynch.

i'm curious as to why AJ isn't jumping for joy that mala is a viable lynch.

Actually, I was going to before reading through the full day, but her approach seemed greatly altered. I was going to sit on it a while. The exchange between her and bro was interesting in the fact that it made bro look awful and mala look townie when put in a vacuum. I've been re-reading her and sitting for today just to make sure I'm not going confirmation bias on her with Rach.

Uh-huh.




Muffin, you're right. It's not {Nacho, Desp, BRO}.
It's {Nacho, Desp, Aj}.

Oh bugger off. I don't have a bad attitude, either, I think you're using that word wrong. I've got issues with Bro here, and the fact that he hasn't even stopped to consider makes me worried that, like yesterday, he's trying to pull me into a lynch I had already championed to get an easy mislynch and have me share blame with him so he could push me forward first. BnB had to tell him to back off before he actually stopped early D2 (I hadn't even signed in for D2 and he was acting as if I was going to support him all the way through and buddying up to me. I don't like that).

If by attitude, you mean approach, perhaps I am wrong. That's an option. I haven't stopped scum reading Mala, I'm just unwilling to continue this without checking Bro. He worries me, his attitude personally pisses me off to no end, and it's almost unbearable to read how emotionally caught up he tries to appear to be. The same could be said for a lot of players, so attitude wise I prefer to think I've taken the right approach in not using so much AtE you could serve it by the pound at a steak shop.

If I do nothing I'm lynched and if I do something I'm lynched.

well you wouldn't be lynched if you did something and it actually looked town.

i'm personally not convinced you're scum, but i wouldn't feel particularly bad if you're lynched because you're being antitown.

if you're town, why don't you help us find scum.

i'm not convinced ftl is scum, change my mind.

while you're at it, talk about who else you think is scum, and who you think is town.

You don't get it do you?

I tried to do something during Day 1. I was getting scum read for catching up and interacting with players and posting my thoughts and chasing after my highest scum read.

These same said people who were voting me for being scum D1 are still alive and voting for me D2.

Although some of the people on my wagon currently I feel are town. So there's a chance this may be a town driven wagon (AJ, Mastin)

Nick did a crazy flip flop on me from Day 1 and it looks survivalist at this point. Which in both ways can be a town tell or a scum tell, but I might be leaning on a scum tell at this point with one scum dead.

BRO is probably scum due to the NK.

Ghostlin is fuck tunneling so I'm not sure, but due to him misrepping me I'm leaning scum.

Mac is just a confused townie.

I'm "eh" on FTL at this point. Something in Day 2 that was posted is making me think town. No I won't point it out. so I'm having mixed feels right now.

Let's look at the above Mala post, btw. What we have is:

1) Whining about nobody listening to her.
2) "Oh my wagon might be town driven." Watch me sit on this fence and not actually try to analyze anything.
3) "Let me sit on the fence about Nick more"
4) "Let me make an unsubstantiated claim about BRO because the NK points to him being scum, despite the fact that the NK makes sense for a fuckton of other people as scum as well given that SoS was a huge threat to any scumteam."
5) "Let me both fencesit and have a weak read on Ghost"
6) "Let me just discredit what Mac is saying"
7) "Let me fencesit some more"

There's no conviction behind any of that. It's a lot of confused, jarbled, and hedged reads, which look a lot like scum trying not to really ruffle any more feathers.

And there was a pretty fucking strong push to get people off of Rach's wagon. Andy and Nick BOTH got counterwagoned.

Alright bro, since you brought up the post I have issues with, let's talk about it.
1. You've bitched about it too. So has Desp, so has muffin. I've mentioned it. So if you want to use this, you're out of your mind.
2. She calls two people town on her wagon, and tou take that to "Fence sitting". She had a definite opinion there, so calling it fence sitting is a lie.
3. I won't argue this.
4. Aren't you trying to make a claim that mala is scum and failing logic 101 but for one point that I brought up on d1? I'd call that fairly unsubstantiated.
5. Do you have a good idea of what fence sit means? She called Ghostlin a scum lean. Jesus, fence this, fence that and you wonder why I'm saying this is bad. Your whole vocabulary for this post was 'fence sit'.
6. Like you're discrediting her. If you look into it, she townreads mac, but disagrees. Now, she could state what she does, but she gives a clear opinion on it.
7. "Fence sitting" Please use this word in a sentence not including The Eagles hit "Desperado". I disagree with your usage in all but one place.

[Malakittens]

Just lynch me. I'm a liability in LyLo anyways (if I were to make it that far) since I'm mislynch bait for scum.

[Trust Fund]

This is me posting because I need to appease bork while syr and I try to figure out what the hell we're gonna do.

[zMuffinMan]

Also, can I ask what made YOU change your mind on Mala? You were deadset against mala's lynch.

you're incorrect. i was never "deadset" against mala's lynch; i was against a lynch going down in the same way the nick lynch went down (i.e. no real reasons, just a lot of wagoning - god, that was a shit wagon). i did think some of her posts looked townish so i didn't think she was scum, and the arguments for her being scum were pretty bad (i still stand by this, because the arguments for her being scum could equally be applied to a lot of players in this game and were rather weak).

i reconsidered when i looked at the game from a different angle. i do not think the entire scum team was on the nick lynch, and all of the people who were off the nick wagon are among my strongest town reads except for mala. i can justify why everyone off the nick wagon (except mala) is town, but i'm not going to do it today, so don't bother asking.

in the (unlikely?) event mala flips town, it'll mean my thinking is wrong somewhere and i really need to reassess the game. in the event that mala flips scum, the game is basically over and scum are fucked.

[Andrius]

THE FUK ARE YOU DOING IN SEATTLE
AND NOT LETTING ME KNOW

[Andrius]

@venmar

[Andrius]

YOU KNOW SHULK, I WISH EVERY DAY COULD BE LIKE TODAY, ALWAYS

;____;

[Andrius]

this has been drunk posting with andy

[Desperado]

NS you are the worst.

Also, muffin and mastin, you are scumreading both me and Mala. You would have to conclude that I've been hard-bussing the slot all game. Is this correct, and would you still push for me tomorrow if Mala flips scum?

I hate this argument. Scum reads are not required to work together. That you're using it to defend

yourself

leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

I am liking ghostlin and muffin less and less.

I understand Ghostlin but what are you seeing with muffin? His opening about the mala/nick wagons was town as fuck.

Also a point in your favor is the fact that people who have scumread you are living longer than they should. (Such as me.)


Side-note, but I just remembered: mollie knows Nacho. She knows Nacho just as well as fferyllt does, if memory serves me. (Or maybe better. Idunno. mollie and ffery can argue in the dead QT I guess over the subject. ) And she died N2.

If, as I suspect, Nacho's the one spearheading the kills, I will say once more that he's killing people he knows will figure him out sooner rather than later. That'd certainly explain why people who by all rights should be dead (such as myself) have lived for so long: because Nacho needed to take out the players who he knows can read him better, roles be damned.

Put another way--

Kill one person intimately familiar with Nacho, could be coincidence.
Kill two people intimately familiar with Nacho, almost certainly by design.

Regardless of Malakittens's flip (which I'm 95% certain is a scum-flip), Nacho is also scum and should be tomorrow's lynch. Especially if someone else familiar with him (e.g., me ) dies.

This analysis seems really shallow for you Mastin. Nacho has reason to be afraid of fferry and mollie, they are dead, ergo Nacho is scum? The hole in this logic is wide enough to push a car through.

Just lynch me. I'm a liability in LyLo anyways (if I were to make it that far) since I'm mislynch bait for scum.

I readily admit that I can't read Mala, and this sorry-sack routine that she's been putting on the majority of the game is throwing me off even more. I can't parse the level of resignation as put-on or genuine.

[TiphaineDeath]

mala nuuuuuuuuuuuu!

[BROseidon]

Oh bugger off. I don't have a bad attitude, either, I think you're using that word wrong. I've got issues with Bro here, and the fact that he hasn't even stopped to consider makes me worried that, like yesterday, he's trying to pull me into a lynch I had already championed to get an easy mislynch and have me share blame with him so he could push me forward first. BnB had to tell him to back off before he actually stopped early D2 (I hadn't even signed in for D2 and he was acting as if I was going to support him all the way through and buddying up to me. I don't like that).

Dat misrep.

I stated that things that you said on day 1 were in line with what I was thinking about the gamestate. So you don't like that I cited stuff you brought up, basically.

Okay, guess agreeing with other people's points ever is buddying

[BROseidon]

Alright bro, since you brought up the post I have issues with, let's talk about it.
1. You've bitched about it too. So has Desp, so has muffin. I've mentioned it. So if you want to use this, you're out of your mind.
2. She calls two people town on her wagon, and tou take that to "Fence sitting". She had a definite opinion there, so calling it fence sitting is a lie.
3. I won't argue this.
4. Aren't you trying to make a claim that mala is scum and failing logic 101 but for one point that I brought up on d1? I'd call that fairly unsubstantiated.
5. Do you have a good idea of what fence sit means? She called Ghostlin a scum lean. Jesus, fence this, fence that and you wonder why I'm saying this is bad. Your whole vocabulary for this post was 'fence sit'.
6. Like you're discrediting her. If you look into it, she townreads mac, but disagrees. Now, she could state what she does, but she gives a clear opinion on it.
7. "Fence sitting" Please use this word in a sentence not including The Eagles hit "Desperado". I disagree with your usage in all but one place.

Let's go through these one by one, shall we?

I tried to do something during Day 1. I was getting scum read for catching up and interacting with players and posting my thoughts and chasing after my highest scum read.

These same said people who were voting me for being scum D1 are still alive and voting for me D2.

Although some of the people on my wagon currently I feel are town. So there's a chance this may be a town driven wagon (AJ, Mastin)

Mala concedes here "I don't like that people scumread me for doing something, so I'm just not going to do anything." That is clearly a very towny reaction to have, instead of scum trying to lurk away pressure and not leave anything behind. Clearly. It's especially awkward because she says that SHE THINKS PEOPLE ON HER WAGON ARE TOWN. IF SHE THINKS THAT, WHY DOESN'T SHE TRY TO DO ANYTHING WITH THEM AT ALL.

Nick did a crazy flip flop on me from Day 1 and it looks survivalist at this point. Which in both ways can be a town tell or a scum tell, but I might be leaning on a scum tell at this point with one scum dead.

You already agree with me here. Moving on.

BRO is probably scum due to the NK.

What I'm bringing up is the fact that Mala uses the NK to try to throw shade on me, despite the fact that SoS is a huge threat to anybody as scum. I was a viable wagon at that point; a lot of people were (and still are) scumreading me, including powerful players back then (bnb, Nacho, etc). It's a lazy way to try to appear like she's thinking, but her logic doesn't hold because it's not a point about why I am scum over

the fast majority of players that would want ffery and GiF out early

. I also don't actually get what you're contesting me about here because your semantics are vague as fuck. If you'd clarify what "but for one point that I brought up on d1? I'd call that fairly unsubstantiated." is supposed to mean?

Ghostlin is fuck tunneling so I'm not sure, but due to him misrepping me I'm leaning scum.

I use "fence-sit" here because her language is slightly hedged in the first half. She's saying that he's a slight scum read, but the level of uncertainty and weakness she applies to the read in the first half of the sentence is worrysome.

Mac is just a confused townie.

There's a difference between discrediting and trying to argue against. I've been arguing against people all game. I've gone through points and tried to articulate, in great detail, why I feel the way I do. That's engagement. What Mala does here is discredit; she says "Oh Mac is town but he's just being wrong" with the implication that ignoring him for a while is fine. That is not a town way to approach things because it lessens the flow of information and invalidates opinions without trying to better understand where those opinions come from.

I'm "eh" on FTL at this point. Something in Day 2 that was posted is making me think town. No I won't point it out. so I'm having mixed feels right now.

The problem I have is that she's not decisive in how she says she's unsure in her read. If she'd said "I'm unsure of FTL," that would have sufficed. Why did she include the additional qualifiers?

[BROseidon]

I hate this argument. Scum reads are not required to work together. That you're using it to defend yourself leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

...why does it leave a bad taste in your mouth that I think that it's fucking dumb not to consider how your reads work together. Seriously, scum don't fucking exist in a vacuum. Why are you adverse to using that fact to scumhunt?

[notscience]

Mala should stop ATEing ;-;

[BROseidon]

He worries me, his attitude personally pisses me off to no end, and it's almost unbearable to read how emotionally caught up he tries to appear to be. The same could be said for a lot of players, so attitude wise I prefer to think I've taken the right approach in not using so much AtE you could serve it by the pound at a steak shop.

...Those emotions aren't fake.

If you flip scum I'm actually fucking blacklisting you for trying to use my emotions to make a case against me. That's how offensive this is to me. If you're just town and being wrong, then you're just a fucking idiot, but not a huge dick.

And it's fucking sad that, despite the fact that you claim I've served "so much AtE you could serve it by the pound at a steak shop," I still have gone into far more detail about my thought processes than the vast majority of this game.

[BROseidon]

Mala should stop ATEing ;-;

Maybe you should fucking play the goddamn game holy shit.

[notscience]

Okay, will do.

Lemme catch up because I'm a bit too disengaged atm

[notscience]

1. Aj The Epic Probly town it feels like aj town rather than aj scum. but this one is a weaker town read.

2. Andrius Ehh the buddying with Nacho is normal for him, The reliance on Nacho vetting for him being town also normal, but his play just does not feel right here leaning scum, Andy can you provide me with some links to scum games you have completed thanks.

3. BeautyAndTheBeast (pirate mollie + Majiffy) I am definitely getting a towny read here.... Given more time will have a more solid read on them since I usually can catch Jiffy scum eventually, but in the town pile for now and mollie feels more like her towny self so yeah town.

4. BROseidon ehhh weak town read here mainly based on the stats, but he feels like hes genuinely scum hunting...

5. Desperado Confirmation Bias much there Des? Seriously dude have you even read any of my town games, weak scum read here. Seriously dude do your homework instead of just focusing on the low hanging fruit.

6. Faster Than Light (Varsoon + Metal Sonic) OMG head exploding here.... these two really need to get their hydra act together, nullish due to I see scummy MS and towny Var, need more congency from the slot tween these two to sort it out better.

7. Ghostlin Ehh feeling more like the town Ghosty here, but have not played as many games, could you provide me links of town and scum Ghosty? Thanks A couple of each is good enough.

8. Mac is Mac..... meh read atm but leaning to town... As he posts more will be able to solidify this.

9. mastin2 uhh WTF???? Brain is suffering from reading his ISO umm?? Need to reread it through.

10. Nachomamma8 What on earth Nacho What do you mean by revenge? ehh that being said its a tad early to rule him out as town I think.... Leaning Town... B n B could you further elaborate why you see him as scum at this point besides the connection with Andy?

11. thezmon221 Nachopappa--- Dude is probably town though not sure why the hostility? I really am a sweet chick However his tunneling looks more town tunneling than scum tunneling.

12. Malakittens nhammen--- Need more time to sort Mala out, she is very good at hiding herself when she is scum Mala... Still sorting....

13. nickthename--- Not much experience with this dude, though he did very well as scum in a skype mafia game and I did not realize he was scum even in LYLO so watching this dude carefully.... Leaning town but watching....

14. notscience umm duh... Do I really need to say on this one

15. RachMarie Sweet as sugar and doing her best to keep up with ya all as you add another 20 pages uggh...

16. Skullduggery Um Skull needs to post a LOT MORE... Nullish, might be scum by PoE but its too soon to figure that out until we get some flips PoE does not do a lot.

17. Sound of Silence (fferyllt + GuyInFreezer) Prolific posters but most likely town.

18. TiphaineDeath Dude you tunnel way too much... Which is making me wonder since you were scum last time and doing this mega tunneling.... Could you provide me with links to a cple town and a cple scum games?

19. Trust Fund (Cabd + Syryana) hmmm mostly cabd here need more syr. Not seeing the usual trolling and goofy much from Syr... So yeah very weak town read here need more from Syr...

20. Venmar Dude what you smokin? Not sure what I have done to you Do you have anything actual to your case besides the fact that I had not yet done reads? Leaning town however...

21. zMuffinMan Need to read some other games not played with this dude in completed games yet. Could you provide me with a cple town and a cple scum games thanks.


I know my reads suck there is obviously more scum out there than what I have, But at this point I have not yet been able to peg them yet. Part of this is due to the number of players I have here that I usually figure out they are scum after a few flips and them not being NKed at night (cough cough jiffy, nacho cough cough)...

I generally suck on D 1 and do better later in the game after I can put more of the pieces of the puzzle together.

I do trust Mollie and Jiffy though when they are town they are often right...

VOTE: Andy

Here's Rach's reads.

As Cabd said, she loves to put her scumbuddies in her townreads (Green in this case) however if Cabd is her scumbuddy this might be different.

Methinks there is one scum in AJ Desp and Bro.

[TiphaineDeath]

Desp is town though, and so is bro, who the fuck is AJ?

[notscience]

...

Read the quote with the color-codes.

Green is where she USUALLY has scumbuddies.

[notscience]

...

Read the quote with the color-codes.

Green is where she USUALLY has scumbuddies.

[Ghostlin]

Mala should stop ATEing ;-;

mala nuuuuuuuuuuuu!

What is it about confirmed Townies and this game?

Guys, you could be fucking running the place. You could be making scum very sorry you're alive. Right now, you're making me sad that voting you isn't a fucking option.

Mala's AtE is null, particularly a 'Town doesn't want me in LYLO' bit.

[Ghostlin]

Although 3970 is probably the most valuble contribution from notscience, if it doesn't really help shorten the field that much.

[Ghostlin]

And before anyone goes 'why would I want to make scum sorry I'm alive, Ghostlin? I'll get shot.'

You're. Confirmed. Fucking. Town. Getting shot is your goddamn job, along with rooting out the scum.

Nine fucking people aren't voting. You better have reasons why right the goddamn now.