Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Trust Fund]

Past 2AM. I'll sort jiffymollie's reads tomorrow.

Curse you two for not making another consolidated reads list.

[Andrius]

Dear Cabd,

Ghostlin is town. I'd lay down my slot on it.

[Aj The Epic]

He worries me, his attitude personally pisses me off to no end, and it's almost unbearable to read how emotionally caught up he tries to appear to be. The same could be said for a lot of players, so attitude wise I prefer to think I've taken the right approach in not using so much AtE you could serve it by the pound at a steak shop.

...Those emotions aren't fake.

If you flip scum I'm actually fucking blacklisting you for trying to use my emotions to make a case against me. That's how offensive this is to me. If you're just town and being wrong, then you're just a fucking idiot, but not a huge dick.

And it's fucking sad that, despite the fact that you claim I've served "so much AtE you could serve it by the pound at a steak shop," I still have gone into far more detail about my thought processes than the vast majority of this game.

I'm not making a case against you using emotions. As I said, I could do this with the majority of the game. Just lay off the caps lock key a bit, I can't read it without imagining the poster mashing keys all over the place and throwing things against the wall.

Alright bro, since you brought up the post I have issues with, let's talk about it.
1. You've bitched about it too. So has Desp, so has muffin. I've mentioned it. So if you want to use this, you're out of your mind.
2. She calls two people town on her wagon, and tou take that to "Fence sitting". She had a definite opinion there, so calling it fence sitting is a lie.
3. I won't argue this.
4. Aren't you trying to make a claim that mala is scum and failing logic 101 but for one point that I brought up on d1? I'd call that fairly unsubstantiated.
5. Do you have a good idea of what fence sit means? She called Ghostlin a scum lean. Jesus, fence this, fence that and you wonder why I'm saying this is bad. Your whole vocabulary for this post was 'fence sit'.
6. Like you're discrediting her. If you look into it, she townreads mac, but disagrees. Now, she could state what she does, but she gives a clear opinion on it.
7. "Fence sitting" Please use this word in a sentence not including The Eagles hit "Desperado". I disagree with your usage in all but one place.

Let's go through these one by one, shall we?

I tried to do something during Day 1. I was getting scum read for catching up and interacting with players and posting my thoughts and chasing after my highest scum read.

These same said people who were voting me for being scum D1 are still alive and voting for me D2.

Although some of the people on my wagon currently I feel are town. So there's a chance this may be a town driven wagon (AJ, Mastin)

Mala concedes here "I don't like that people scumread me for doing something, so I'm just not going to do anything." That is clearly a very towny reaction to have, instead of scum trying to lurk away pressure and not leave anything behind. Clearly. It's especially awkward because she says that SHE THINKS PEOPLE ON HER WAGON ARE TOWN. IF SHE THINKS THAT, WHY DOESN'T SHE TRY TO DO ANYTHING WITH THEM AT ALL.

Nick did a crazy flip flop on me from Day 1 and it looks survivalist at this point. Which in both ways can be a town tell or a scum tell, but I might be leaning on a scum tell at this point with one scum dead.

You already agree with me here. Moving on.

BRO is probably scum due to the NK.

What I'm bringing up is the fact that Mala uses the NK to try to throw shade on me, despite the fact that SoS is a huge threat to anybody as scum. I was a viable wagon at that point; a lot of people were (and still are) scumreading me, including powerful players back then (bnb, Nacho, etc). It's a lazy way to try to appear like she's thinking, but her logic doesn't hold because it's not a point about why I am scum over

the fast majority of players that would want ffery and GiF out early

. I also don't actually get what you're contesting me about here because your semantics are vague as fuck. If you'd clarify what "but for one point that I brought up on d1? I'd call that fairly unsubstantiated." is supposed to mean?

Ghostlin is fuck tunneling so I'm not sure, but due to him misrepping me I'm leaning scum.

I use "fence-sit" here because her language is slightly hedged in the first half. She's saying that he's a slight scum read, but the level of uncertainty and weakness she applies to the read in the first half of the sentence is worrysome.

Mac is just a confused townie.

There's a difference between discrediting and trying to argue against. I've been arguing against people all game. I've gone through points and tried to articulate, in great detail, why I feel the way I do. That's engagement. What Mala does here is discredit; she says "Oh Mac is town but he's just being wrong" with the implication that ignoring him for a while is fine. That is not a town way to approach things because it lessens the flow of information and invalidates opinions without trying to better understand where those opinions come from.

I'm "eh" on FTL at this point. Something in Day 2 that was posted is making me think town. No I won't point it out. so I'm having mixed feels right now.

The problem I have is that she's not decisive in how she says she's unsure in her read. If she'd said "I'm unsure of FTL," that would have sufficed. Why did she include the additional qualifiers?

I prefer this so much more than the first one, I'm not even going to argue it. Admittedly for number 1, Mastin and I hard scumread Mala so badly she couldn't talk to one of us without us picking it apart word for word. I didn't quite like my own arguments there as I was grasping at straws to pick away at the case, but I really needed some reason to trust you.

Just lynch me. I'm a liability in LyLo anyways (if I were to make it that far) since I'm mislynch bait for scum.

Mala, I give you an inch and you hang yourself with it. Quite literally. You could've gone and tried to continue what you had started at the beginning of D3.

vote:Mala

i reconsidered when i looked at the game from a different angle. i do not think the entire scum team was on the nick lynch, and all of the people who were off the nick wagon are among my strongest town reads except for mala. i can justify why everyone off the nick wagon (except mala) is town, but i'm not going to do it today, so don't bother asking.

Can I ask what then made Mala town previously, or are you still holding that we just couldn't make a case worth lynching her on?

[zMuffinMan]

are you still holding that we just couldn't make a case worth lynching her on?

yes. i don't like cases that can be applied to a large portion of the player list. it's what got nick lynched yesterday. the cases on nick and mala were virtually identical.

[Faster Than Light]

Dear Cabd,

Ghostlin is town. I'd lay down my slot on it.

second

[borkjerfkin]

Waynegg replaces Mutleyddmc.

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 3.3

[5] Malakittens (BROseidon, zMuffinMan, mastin2, Ghostlin, Aj The Epic)
[1] BROseidon (Venmar)
[1] Desperado (Mac)
[1] Faster Than Light (Desperado)
[1] Mac (TiphaineDeath)

[7] Not Voting (Nachomamma8, Malakittens, notscience, waynegg, Trust Fund, Andrius, Faster Than Light)

With 16 alive, it is 9 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-09-25 10:00:00)

prodding malakittens, mini-prodding mastin2, Venmar

[Malakittens]

Could have sworn I posted. I'm waiting for TF to get done with his anaylsis.

[waynegg]

Two thoughts to start with

20. Venmar ~

Spoiler:

131 "I hope you realize that claiming PGO pretty much makes
sure town powerroles don't blow themselves up on me, so i AM
playing to my wincon" trying to get town PR off him is his main
motivation. A two for one pay off is generally good so this logic
feels wonky for some reason.
116 288 don't like this TD push
350 sudden change in tone to reflect tone BnB is looking for in 326[/post...
[post]1639 see: horrible; why put a number on how many of those are supposed to be his scumbuddy on the list he's protected at one point or another? To exaggerate it to the point of sounding ludacrous?
1641 admits his PGO claim is a load of bull by relating it to Mattp
1958 too lazy to expound on it?
2072 this looks like a lie
2757 scum tell with the "just got lucky" part?
3065 "cause I said so" only works when you're scum because you
have no way knowing that otherwise. Thanks for being second to
clear Mala though!
3476

I don't like he play from Venmar at all. There seems to be a lot of dissonance with his thoughts and interactions with others. His emotional outbursts that give him excuse to avoid the game ~ threatening to replace out, the afk threat because of Bro... ~ repeatedly make me wonder why he's trying so hard to avoid the game.

I don't particularly believe the Cop claim from Mastin because I'm pretty sure he was cc'd, so I cant put faith in that clear. Can't condemn him for it either.

His soft rebuttal of his PGO claim reads suspicious. It doesn't seem to have any town motivation.

AJ ~

Spoiler:

Just two questions.

What's your definition of "to incriminate"?

Why were you bulletproof N2?

[Malakittens]

Um um um what. Since when did Mastin claim or even AJ?

[Malakittens]

Guys, you could be fucking running the place

Yeah, you don't want me running the place.

Mac -> leaning town

gives off the PR vibe

This bug anyone else?

Yes. Yes. He looks like he's hunting for PRs in the thread. He already soft claimed cop in D2 on nacho, but it was so blantly put I saw it as a crumb for his team mates or he's town and doesn't know how to crumb well enough.

[notscience]

Hey Andrius

If you think TF is scumz why bother defend the person they're after

Pedit- What bugs you? I think we're on different pages

[Trust Fund]

Waynegg replaces Mutleyddmc.

Hi wayne. We may not be the greatest of friends, but I'm keeping our prior issues out of the game. Let's kick some scum ass, mmkay? You replaced into a town slot, and I'm town, so instead of butting heads, let's headbutt some scumfucks off the cliff.

[Trust Fund]

Hey Andrius

If you think TF is scumz why bother defend the person they're after

Yeah that struck me as odd too. That's not usually how a player usually talks to their number one scum suspect.

[Trust Fund]

Wayne, pretty sure those aren't cop claims, they're clears for other reasons. Let's not get the claims out quite yet if players aren't ready unless you think you've got a "guyinfreezer is soooo PR" kind of vibe going on again.

[mastin2]

THE FUK ARE YOU DOING IN SEATTLE
AND NOT LETTING ME KNOW

I take it you live in Washington, too. (And I'm guessing Spokane from your location?)

BnB's reads are fragmented everywhere, but I'll try to piece them together.

I have that in my QT. I found:
BeautyAndTheBeast had
-Nacho as suspicious
-Malakittens as maybe-suspicious
-Andy as a degenerating read
-Bro increasingly town
-Mac as decently-town
-Desp as a non-presence
-townread on Muffin
-AJ as scum?

...But it's hard to say for sure, because you're right. It's scattered. (I did this in reverse-chronological order, newest first and working backwards. But I didn't get it all. I basically went through the last page of their iso to get this, but by then, it was becoming increasingly hard to pin down.)

Dear Cabd,

Ghostlin is town. I'd lay down my slot on it.

Indeed.


Hey, Desp.

Side-note, but I just remembered: mollie knows Nacho. She knows Nacho just as well as fferyllt does, if memory serves me. (Or maybe better. Idunno. mollie and ffery can argue in the dead QT I guess over the subject. ) And she died N2.

If, as I suspect, Nacho's the one spearheading the kills, I will say once more that he's killing people he knows will figure him out sooner rather than later. That'd certainly explain why people who by all rights should be dead (such as myself) have lived for so long: because Nacho needed to take out the players who he knows can read him better, roles be damned.

Put another way--
Kill one person intimately familiar with Nacho, could be coincidence.
Kill two people intimately familiar with Nacho, almost certainly by design.

Regardless of Malakittens's flip (which I'm 95% certain is a scum-flip), Nacho is also scum and should be tomorrow's lynch. Especially if someone else familiar with him (e.g., me ) dies.

This analysis seems really shallow for you Mastin. Nacho has reason to be afraid of fferry and mollie, they are dead, ergo Nacho is scum? The hole in this logic is wide enough to push a car through.

Just lynch me. I'm a liability in LyLo anyways (if I were to make it that far) since I'm mislynch bait for scum.

I readily admit that I can't read Mala, and this sorry-sack routine that she's been putting on the majority of the game is throwing me off even more. I can't parse the level of resignation as put-on or genuine.

Just thought I'd let you know. After we lynch Malakittens (which we

are

doing today).
And after we lynch Nacho tomorrow (which we ARE doing tomorrow).

We're lynching you the day after.

Regardless of Malakittens's alignment, Nacho is scum. And regardless of both of their alignments, you're also incredibly-scummy. If as I suspect both are scum, that pretty much seals the deal.

@ NS: Duh. Join me on this

Vote: FTL

Focus, Mastin, focus. We can't lynch this today, tempting as it is. We'll have to wait 'til D5.


For the record--this is not what I remember of a town-Mala being mislynched. Granted, I don't have much experience with a town-Malakittens being mislynched (Mind-reader Mafia is the only one to come to mind, and I don't really remember it all too well), but I distinctly recall that a town-Mala being mislynched puts in :effort: which I am entirely lacking in seeing from her. Yeah, she'll have AtE as well, but she gives a much greater fight than what I've been seeing from her.

[BROseidon]

Because you are making a conditional statement (If Mala is scum, I am not) and then applying the statement in a way to make you appear to be town without satisfying the condition first. It's really underhanded.

And scum don't exist in a vacuum, but what constitutes scum-scum interaction and how associative tells actually work are just about the most subjective aspect of mafia in my opinion, and the argument that because you've been FOSing Mala since day one, you couldn't possibly be scum together, does not align with my perspective. Do you honestly believe that a Mala scum flip would clear you as town?

Re the first paragraph:

Also, muffin and mastin, you are scumreading both me and Mala. You would have to conclude that I've been hard-bussing the slot all game. Is this correct, and would you still push for me tomorrow if Mala flips scum?

This is not a defense. This is me trying to gauge where other people stand (also, this wasn't addressed to you and you felt compelled to respond to it. Why?). That you paint this as me defending myself when, at best, it's an incredibly indirect defense, compared to the insane amount of actual defense I have done over the past two days is extremely scummy.

Second, this entire game is subjective. I'm not saying, "OMG I SCUMREAD MALA EARLY THEREFORE CAN'T BE SCUM TOGETHER." What I'm

asking

is "does this look like S/S interaction to you."

A Mala scumflip only clears me as town if enough people think that it wasn't a S/S interaction. I'm not going to argue more than that.

[waynegg]

Wayne, pretty sure those aren't cop claims, they're clears for other reasons. Let's not get the claims out quite yet if players aren't ready unless you think you've got a "guyinfreezer is soooo PR" kind of vibe going on again.

It's not that. Mastin blatantly claimed Cop and then cleared Venrob. There was no reading between the lines. Muttley actually had 2 shots instead of the one he claimed and shot AJ last night. AJ is still alive, hence the bulletproof.

And yeah, lets kick scum butt and perhaps work on the friend thing in the process.

[Trust Fund]

Wayne, pretty sure those aren't cop claims, they're clears for other reasons. Let's not get the claims out quite yet if players aren't ready unless you think you've got a "guyinfreezer is soooo PR" kind of vibe going on again.

It's not that. Mastin blatantly claimed Cop and then cleared Venrob. There was no reading between the lines. Muttley actually had 2 shots instead of the one he claimed and shot AJ last night. AJ is still alive, hence the bulletproof.

And yeah, lets kick scum butt and perhaps work on the friend thing in the process.

Venrob isn't in the game, wayne. Who do you mean?

[waynegg]

Bah. Venmar. Always getting those 2 confused.

[notscience]

BRo why are you worried about getting confirmed as town

[waynegg]

VOTE: AJ the Epic

[mastin2]

Mod: if an X-shot role is roleblocked, is their shot refunded?

Wayne, you should check to make sure your shot was used up. I'm running through the possibilities, between roleblocker (a fairly likely scum role in the game), *OTHERS REDACTED*, but needless to say, aside from the roleblocker possibility, none of these bode well for Aj at all.
(Oh, and even in the case of a roleblocker, still not great. )

[BROseidon]

Priorities:

1) Find scum
2) Don't get mislynched

I'm 2-2 in games where I've been mislynched/vigged. I'm 5-0 in games where I've been NK'd or survived. Clearly not getting mislynched is a good thing to do as town.

Ugh this reminds me that I need to update my wiki page with my 2 recently completed games >.>

[waynegg]

Mod: if an X-shot role is roleblocked, is their shot refunded?

Wayne, you should check to make sure your shot was used up. I'm running through the possibilities, between roleblocker (a fairly likely scum role in the game), *OTHERS REDACTED*, but needless to say, aside from the roleblocker possibility, none of these bode well for Aj at all.
(Oh, and even in the case of a roleblocker, still not great. )

You assume I didn't?