Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Nachomamma8]

Why would you tell him that early? Better to see if the replacement claims honestly on his own instead of check whether he has the common sense factor to follow his predecessor's claim.

[zMuffinMan]

yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

you know the first thing i do when i replace into a game and get asked to claim is to check my predecessor's posts and see what they claimed, right?

regardless of my actual role.

[Malakittens]

I have also seen that catch scum. If they are town they will answer honestly, but if they are scum they will have to check.

[waynegg]

What does this have to do with the current game? ;_;

It's relevant.

[Malakittens]

What does this have to do with the current game? ;_;

It's relevant.

I really don't.. see how....

[Aj The Epic]

@AJ

One more question, please. It may seem silly, but I really need to know why you chose the Rubix Cube as your long term Avi?

Spoiler:

If you want the honest answer, it was a long experiment side by side with my off site account to check lynch rates via avatar. I actually shifted my avatar offsite and noticed a change in how willing people would be to lynch me (at least, inexperienced ones), so I wanted to check what it was. This was months ago when I started. Basically, the reasoning was as follows:

Austin Powers
Michael Corleone
Wolfdog (from that old spice commercial)
Rubix Cube (Complete)

Each one represented a different lynch rate with the same style. In fact, the Corleone was such a high attempted lynch rate that I stopped using it. I found that people would even read my posts differently when I used different avatars. I started playing mafia with Austin powers and generally people took my posts as jokes. By the time I used the wolfdog one, most people knew my playstyle that they had already associated me with a certain style of play and a dreadful seriousness, but it did lower the attempted lynch rate.

On MS, I decided for that very reason to use a vague avatar in the fact that it's only representational of a solved rubix cube. It has worked beautifully in the fact that it's unmemorable, unimportant and not a representation of me at all. I've never noticed a certain type of read because of my avatar and hence I've kept it. (I have noticed avatar bias with others, however... so it isn't just the site.)

[waynegg]

So, because of math and statistics, right?. And I would assume then since you went through that experiment that you make your plays on calculation? I've heard of a site where everyone uses mathematical calculations in their plays and determining alignments; would that be your offsite?

[waynegg]

... a one shot bullet proof townie, who actively tried to get shot night 1 to remove that benefit./quote]

Say we take this for truth, have a couple of questions. If you were really trying to accomplish this,

why do you have less posts that the mod, and 47 out of 2475 on day one,

I'm a one shot bullet proof townie, who actively tried to get shot night 1 to remove that benefit.

Say we take that for your honest intentions. Why do you have less posts than bork (92 to his 94 now and 47 compared with his 54 D1 isolated)? If you were really trying to draw that kind of attention, it seems you would have been more engaged than that and done more than just

'Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!'

'Mala, Mala, Mala!'

.

And what others have said...

I wanted to remove any ambiguity because I had/have strong reasons to believe a traitor exists in this game...

...this makes no sense at all.


Now to tie it all in with why I was asking about ole Rubix. You're playing with a mathematical certainty. D1 had no pressure for you and you posted 1.9%, yesterday and today you're facing some questioning and posting 2.6%. Both of those numbers reflect posting just enough to seem active but stay mostly invisible. Also, you are playing very guarded. Pushing Mala is a low risk play to make because so many are doubting her, you blend right in even while pushing. The whole sum of your play lends itself to a scum optimal coefficient, whether by default or design.

[waynegg]

... a one shot bullet proof townie, who actively tried to get shot night 1 to remove that benefit.

Say we take this for truth, have a couple of questions. If you were really trying to accomplish this,

why do you have less posts that the mod, and 47 out of 2475 on day one,

I'm a one shot bullet proof townie, who actively tried to get shot night 1 to remove that benefit.

Say we take that for your honest intentions. Why do you have less posts than bork (92 to his 94 now and 47 compared with his 54 D1 isolated)? If you were really trying to draw that kind of attention, it seems you would have been more engaged than that and done more than just

'Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!' 'Mala, Mala, Mala!'

.

And what others have said...

I wanted to remove any ambiguity because I had/have strong reasons to believe a traitor exists in this game...

...this makes no sense at all.


Now to tie it all in with why I was asking about ole Rubix. You're playing with a mathematical certainty. D1 had no pressure for you and you posted 1.9%, yesterday and today you're facing some questioning and posting 2.6%. Both of those numbers reflect posting just enough to seem active but stay mostly invisible. Also, you are playing very guarded. Pushing Mala is a low risk play to make because so many are doubting her, you blend right in even while pushing. The whole sum of your play lends itself to a scum optimal coefficient, whether by default or design.

[waynegg]

Noooooooo! Multi format fail! Noooooooo!Third time the charm?

I'm a one shot bullet proof townie, who actively tried to get shot night 1 to remove that benefit.

Say we take that for your honest intentions. Why do you have less posts than bork (92 to his 94 now and 47 compared with his 54 D1 isolated)? If you were really trying to draw that kind of attention, it seems you would have been more engaged than that and done more than just

'Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!'

'Mala, Mala, Mala!'

.

And what others have said...

I wanted to remove any ambiguity because I had/have strong reasons to believe a traitor exists in this game...

[/quote]

...this makes no sense at all.


Now to tie it all in with why I was asking about ole Rubix. You're playing with a mathematical certainty. D1 had no pressure for you and you posted 1.9%, yesterday and today you're facing some questioning and posting 2.6%. Both of those numbers reflect posting just enough to seem active but stay mostly invisible. Also, you are playing very guarded. Pushing Mala is a low risk play to make because so many are doubting her, you blend right in even while pushing. The whole sum of your play lends itself to a scum optimal coefficient, whether by default or design.

[zMuffinMan]

@AJ

Spoiler:

First: Yes, cops might counterclaim.

yeah, this is a load of bullshit. find me one game where a cop has claimed because they think they spotted someone crumbing cop.

I’ve learned scum are pretty good at picking up crumbs as I got blasted by hiraki in another game when I accidentally dropped a crumb day 1.

it is actually improper to crumb cop unless you’re in danger of getting lynched d1, so I wasn’t worried about someone crumbing it over me

these two quotes are contradictory. you know that people can crumb their role because you've done it before. derp.

To me, he was an obvious candidate for a traitor in that situation since I figured a core of Rach/mala/nacho/venmar day 1 and Nick was a scum read from the beginning of D1. Having nothing in the way of connections, I figured he’d be a good candidate for traitor.

i don't believe this. the logical conclusion when you can't see 'connections' isn't to assume someone is a traitor...

I agree, crumbing nick as a traitor is stupid and nowhere did I do that.

you

quoted yourself suggesting you thought nick was a traitor

. you even provided those quotes as 'evidence' that you thought nick was a traitor. you fucking said, "

This was me trying to see if Nick was our traitor

." If that isn't you crumbing that you thought Nick was a traitor, then what was it?

But as scum, the easier way for me would’ve been just wait until the QT was up and explain that. Nick wasn't getting lynched that day, and wouldn’t the correct move for me as scum to lynch off a potential traitor I had scum read and keep the core team together? Wouldn’t a nick lynch benefit me in every way more than a Rach lynch?

i'm not going to get into the wifom game, but i can think of a number of possible explanations.

They generally know at least one in MS.net games.

even if they

generally

know, that doesn't mean they

always

know, and there's no reason to assume they do know.

I had many people on the Nick wagon as town, as I’ve explained. How do we know scum just didn’t plan on bussing mala day 2?

yeah, this is also a load of bullshit. it's why i asked you to talk about who your scum reads on the mala wagon were, such that you felt better about the nick wagon. also, you should have known that if nick was actually a traitor the scum team was unaware of, and mala was part of the main team, the likelihood that the nick wagon was scum-infested was far fucking higher.

none of what you say really matches with what i would expect from you thinking logically as town. i'm not particularly interested in dealing with you til after a mala flip, though.

[Faster Than Light]

I have also seen that catch scum. If they are town they will answer honestly, but if they are scum they will have to check.

Unless the town predecessor was doing a gambit, Varsoon-style

Then the "town replacement" who didnt read gets into lots of trouble


-MS

[zMuffinMan]

[6] Malakittens (BROseidon, zMuffinMan, mastin2, Ghostlin, Aj The Epic, TiphaineDeath)
[2] Aj The Epic (waynegg, Mac)
[1] BROseidon (dopog)
[1] Faster Than Light (Desperado)

[6] Not Voting (Nachomamma8, Malakittens, notscience, Trust Fund, Andrius, Faster Than Light)

With 16 alive, it is 9 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-09-25 10:00:00)

i just want a mala flip so we can move on. there shouldn't be so many people not voting (including andrius failing to properly vote trust fund). if you don't want a mala flip, push a better lynch.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Malakittens

I was hoping mala and I would chat more today.

[Malakittens]

Yeah well I been around. >.>

So I'm going to claim since we have like 5 days and this wagon somewhat needs to die off me. If you do chose to lynch me then fine, but you are taking a PR with you.

I'm Elhaym Van Houten, Battle Mage of the Nisan Alliance. I'm a Town JK.

Night 1 I JK'd AJ.
Night 2 I JK'd Mac.

[zMuffinMan]

why did you choose those two?

[zMuffinMan]

(coz, you know, if i were a town JK, i'd be on the CLAIMED INNOCENT CHILD 24/7 if i wasn't trying to roleblock my scum reads, and mac and AJ don't match up with your supposed scum reads)

[zMuffinMan]

also, i don't see why you'd ask to be lynched if you're a fucking PR

[zMuffinMan]

if your aim was to JK town reads to protect them from NK, why specifically AJ and mac? why not AJ two nights in a row? why not, say, mastin, who you seem to really strongly think is town and is a more likely NK than someone like mac?

but anyway, yeah, answers plx

[Aj The Epic]

Due to a spoiler in a quote, I'm fairly certain I can't spoiler around it without breaking the spoilers.

Noooooooo! Multi format fail! Noooooooo!Third time the charm?

I'm a one shot bullet proof townie, who actively tried to get shot night 1 to remove that benefit.

Say we take that for your honest intentions. Why do you have less posts than bork (92 to his 94 now and 47 compared with his 54 D1 isolated)? If you were really trying to draw that kind of attention, it seems you would have been more engaged than that and done more than just

'Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!'

'Mala, Mala, Mala!'

.

And what others have said...

I wanted to remove any ambiguity because I had/have strong reasons to believe a traitor exists in this game...

...this makes no sense at all.


Now to tie it all in with why I was asking about ole Rubix. You're playing with a mathematical certainty. D1 had no pressure for you and you posted 1.9%, yesterday and today you're facing some questioning and posting 2.6%. Both of those numbers reflect posting just enough to seem active but stay mostly invisible. Also, you are playing very guarded. Pushing Mala is a low risk play to make because so many are doubting her, you blend right in even while pushing. The whole sum of your play lends itself to a scum optimal coefficient, whether by default or design.

Because my time is not infinite, neither can my posting amount be comparable. I also know power roles to stay a little bit quiet, but this is just the trend of a tutorial of "How to play your power role". Ergo, I'd figure that my activity, which wasn't all that bad day 1 before college started, would be sufficient for that.

As for removing ambiguity, sure it makes sense. If I hint cop and there comes Mutley's claimed "I killed Saki" post, I can immediately assume with decent certainty the other kill was aimed at me. That way, a future no-kill would represent block or traitor. And until reason to suspect doc/rb, expect traitor. My role was another obstacle to seeing the night when the traitor was recruited. As such, even if I revealed later, someone could look for dramatic read changes from day to day on a single person and would help us have a better understanding of who it was.

@AJ

Spoiler:

First: Yes, cops might counterclaim.

yeah, this is a load of bullshit. find me one game where a cop has claimed because they think they spotted someone crumbing cop.

I’ve learned scum are pretty good at picking up crumbs as I got blasted by hiraki in another game when I accidentally dropped a crumb day 1.

it is actually improper to crumb cop unless you’re in danger of getting lynched d1, so I wasn’t worried about someone crumbing it over me

these two quotes are contradictory. you know that people can crumb their role because you've done it before. derp.

To me, he was an obvious candidate for a traitor in that situation since I figured a core of Rach/mala/nacho/venmar day 1 and Nick was a scum read from the beginning of D1. Having nothing in the way of connections, I figured he’d be a good candidate for traitor.

i don't believe this. the logical conclusion when you can't see 'connections' isn't to assume someone is a traitor...

I agree, crumbing nick as a traitor is stupid and nowhere did I do that.

you

quoted yourself suggesting you thought nick was a traitor

. you even provided those quotes as 'evidence' that you thought nick was a traitor. you fucking said, "

This was me trying to see if Nick was our traitor

." If that isn't you crumbing that you thought Nick was a traitor, then what was it?

But as scum, the easier way for me would’ve been just wait until the QT was up and explain that. Nick wasn't getting lynched that day, and wouldn’t the correct move for me as scum to lynch off a potential traitor I had scum read and keep the core team together? Wouldn’t a nick lynch benefit me in every way more than a Rach lynch?

i'm not going to get into the wifom game, but i can think of a number of possible explanations.

They generally know at least one in MS.net games.

even if they

generally

know, that doesn't mean they

always

know, and there's no reason to assume they do know.

I had many people on the Nick wagon as town, as I’ve explained. How do we know scum just didn’t plan on bussing mala day 2?

yeah, this is also a load of bullshit. it's why i asked you to talk about who your scum reads on the mala wagon were, such that you felt better about the nick wagon. also, you should have known that if nick was actually a traitor the scum team was unaware of, and mala was part of the main team, the likelihood that the nick wagon was scum-infested was far fucking higher.

none of what you say really matches with what i would expect from you thinking logically as town. i'm not particularly interested in dealing with you til after a mala flip, though.

Muffin, I'd first have to find you a game of a cop crumbing. As the only one I know of is mine, I'd also like to point out I already stated it was a mistake. I SHOULDN'T have crumbed that. It doesn't benefit me. Sure, people do day cop tests for reaction, but I don't know of a cop claim day one. This also explains the second. Just because I've done so doesn't make it the right play.

Well, obviously we have strongly different thought processes. Unfortunately, arguing my own thought process to you is stupid because I can't convince you it is the correct way, just as you can't convince me yours is correct. You can only say that you would do so differently while I say that's how I did. I assumed traitor because I knew there was a traitor and I thought he was scummy.

We need to get a definition of crumbing here. Crumbing is where people can look at your posts without your guidance and draw conclusions. If I died and wasn't here, would you have ever pulled that I thought Nick was a traitor or that one even existed in this game? No. Ergo, to me, it isn't a crumb. Whereas with the cop one, I did essentially what Venmar did to Rachmarie last game. That was the basis of the idea in the first place and I knew enough of the players here had played Xenoblades to recognize it and an attempt to crumb. What I did was checking for myself. It affected my logical progression, not me hinting there was a traitor. If, however, you include crumbing to be something to verify you are a certain role for later review, I guess you could try and incorporate that. However, I did not concoiously go "I'm going to hint an Nick being a traitor here by taking this thought process" or even "This line of thought hints there might be a traitor".

Do you have a better way to assume than to follow the general trend? I don't. I used my role in conjunction with my knowledge to draw a conclusion about what traitor we were dealing with. If you have a way to tell me which roles we're dealing with every time, please tell me. Otherwise, stop nitpicking, that was the best I had to go on.

Again, Muffin. Are you saying you can tell me scum was on either wagon at the end of the day, both wagons or a single one? Yes, there is a higher chance and certainly some people on the Nick wagon are more than likely scum, but this is true with every wagon. I wouldn't be surprised if there was scum on the Rach wagon, nor should I be. That's why you can't just base it. The wagon started from the idea of a towny, and was formed by people I felt as town and hence I was comfortable with it. You're inferring that I take for granted the fact that scum do not know what bussing is, want to deal with the repercussion of a town flip and would rather not simply WK a townie? Sure, any AND all of these are possible.

But doesn't this go back to your last part and thus put you in contradiction? Part of the traitor's possibility is to have the scum team know a traitor is in the game. How do YOU know, then, that the scum team wasn't OFF the wagon assuming nick as the traitor? Can you really play that game of variables with me now, after the flip? No, not really. It isn't fair to me because OBVIOUSLY something somewhere was wrong with my logic, and inherently me defending it now does nothing but force me into areas where inevitably you can just say "Well, your logic was wrong here, here, here" or just plainly say it's wrong. Yes, it was. Is that indicative of anything? If it is, then what about every other mislynch that ever happens? In this game, at least one townie has to be wrong for a mislynch to occur and it leaves me in a particularly difficult position to argue back when the end answer is 'wrong'.

[Malakittens]

AJ was not a scum read towards the end. Mac was not a high town read, but he wasn't a scum read towards the end of Day 2.

I chose AJ because I really, really thought he was going to be NK'd. Why he was hunting and I really didn't see scum intent towards the end. Plus he pushed Rach hard.

I chose Mac because SOS was trying to work with B&tB and I was wondering if that was part of the reason along with maybe accurate reads why the SoS hydra was killed. I thought Mac had a decent chance of dying.

I didn't pick NS because sorry NS about how rude this is going to sound, but you aren't playing an IC right. I don't see the way you are playing IC as NK worthy even if it means you are a confirmed town.

[Malakittens]

@AJ:

Why do you notice that Ghost soft claimed cop, but not that FTL also soft claimed a type of role or flavor type cop?

[zMuffinMan]

Plus he pushed Rach hard.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, good one.






oh wait, was this serious?

I assumed traitor because I knew there was a traitor and I thought he was scummy.

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[zMuffinMan]

that was a kneejerk reaction to the above two posts. i'm tired so i'll probably look over them properly when i wake up

[Malakittens]

Whatever. Chose not to believe it your choice. Just seems like you disagree with the way I chose to use my role.