A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Cephrir]

Interacting with you is completely pointless. I'm not going to bother with it.

Tragically this matches up with past experience so I guess you're probably town.

[elleheathen]

Also, I'm not scumreading Thor but am I the only one who doesn't buy the "lol Casso" claim

/handraise

A lot of that is probably due to the fact that I'm reading through his scum games/qt's and it doesn't strike me as something he'd pick. Originally, I thought he claimed the most obscure char he could think of just to shut me up - but he stuck by it and that surprised me.

While I think he is

exactly

the type of person to gambit this, the fact that he specifies the way in which he

could

be conftown

'if we have this role and if they do this'

(and goes with his 'you're dumb, let me spell it out for you' theme) makes me think there may be some merit to it but I still wouldn't put the gambit past him.

@PnJ - Since you're not scumreading him for it, why do you think he would fakenameclaim it?

@Thor - Was that your first pick? (Disregard if this was already asked/answered, I recall someone asking your picks previously and can't find it atm.)

Alfred pretty much sums up my thoughts on ooba in 599. (I don't know how I feel about Alfred actually echo'ing me but that's probably because he says exactly what I say and just does a better job of explaining it D:) ooba's actions make me think obvscum whereas his responses to me seem very genuine town, especially since he owned up. Conflicted.

Also. Whyyyyyyyy.

I read you as so town it hurts and then:

You can pretend I'm town if you need to

yudodistome (unless I just missed some by-play between you and macmollie...)

[Thor665]

This page makes me weep so far.

I will say;

@Ceph - your failure to provide the question I didn't answer...I will choose to take that as admitting you were wrong/lying when you made that claim, okay?

[Cephrir]

No, that is not okay. Go away.

[Thor665]

And sweet mercy;

@Entire Thread - I know most of you are on top of this, but allow me this moment.

[sarcasm]Nameclaim: Casso, King of the Seals[/sarcasm]

That is all.

@Elle - that all said, you wanted the name claim to...scumhunt me in some manner...you apparently did nothing with it besides just going 'that's a weird claim...must be legit!'
Did I miss something?

[Thor665]

No, that is not okay. Go away.

So...want to quote the question I didn't answer then?
You called me out over it - why not rub my face in it now?
If you have no interest in rubbing my face in it...why bring it up as a point for anything if you don't want to back it up?

[Cephrir]

You ignored questions about your rolename roughly seven thousand times.

And responding with sarcasm to questions does not count as answering them.

[Amrun]

I'd say they feel vaguely uncomfortable and haven't been as strong a presence in the thread but nothing substantial.

With 24 players alive, this is to be expected. This head rarely plays large games for a reason.

What are your townreads and why?

1. Alfred - there was a reason for this but it was early in the thread and I forget the specifics. Bet it was a really ace reason.
2. Cephrir (probably) - liked the way he joined the Elle wagon.
3. elleheathen (probably) - again, there was a reason but I forgot. This is pretty much how I'm going to approach it with this many alive - file away townreads to be dealt with later and just get on with it unless something makes me sit up and re-evaluate.
4. Garruk - I thought the "if I were a speculating type" thing in 403 came across as genuine.
5. Kanye - 100% both-heads-approved legit townread. Fact.
6. Nautilus - There may have been another thing that I didn't write down but at least part of it is the fact that when Nacho incorrectly scumreads me he's usually town.
7. PeaceBringer (maybe) - That's all I got (and I only noted that last night. well done me)
8. PrideandJoy - Might reconsider this, had Dantown vibes but, on quick ISO-skim to see if I could remember anything specific, I found out chesskid may have been posting more than I thought he was. We'll see, I guess.
9. quadz - already discussed
10. Tammy - Looks different to Red Wedding, carefree.
11. Tierce - I *think* looks different to Red Wedding, also sheeping people who know better than me.

Also, Amrun was one of those I was waiting on and assuming that I'd get a read eventually and I

think

she's just done enough to make me settle on town. But maybe don't quote me on that just yet.

So we're narrowing it down. Now please imagine all of the first-person identification in this post was using "we" because I enjoy the unattainable mystery of it being hard to tell which of us is posting.

Why bother posting a reads list if it's going to be stack of waffles?

The question of the premise doesn't even make sense. I have no idea how what I would do would generate towncred in the first place. I did it simply because it was my natural reaction and as an attempt to read Zdenek.

Your natural reaction thus far this game has been defense of not getting too screamy.
Why do you think this moment generated screams if it was not faked? I know it was your "natural reaction" and all...but it doesn't seem to gel with your other "natural reactions" in this thread, yeah?

I think it gels just fine with my other reactions, and even if it doesn't, my job is not to have my reactions "gel." That's something I might be more concerned about as scum, tbf.

[Nautilius]

I need you to go into more detail on the Cephrir townread since I was kinda vacillating earlier between scum and now null for him.

Information useful to you: he's a scum-preference type. He as scum is image-conscious; a few things that he did that didn't seem very concerned in cultivating image were #290, after Goat was dangling a possible townread in from of him if he behaved like a good boy and he said "I dunno why the hell you were scumreading me before but :hitoshrug:" instead of keeping up his old momentum. His interactions with us feel decently smooth so far (particularly calling us out for a weak Amrun case), and I've liked his lines of questioning so far.

#152 struck me as off when I read it in that he lists two popular-ish townreads and then downgrades his read on Shadoweh based off of one post at a time when a few people started FoSing her on the side. That read shift seemed suspicious to me because it seemed more like it was borne out of opportunism than anything else and it seemed like he shoved the two extra reads in there for padding.

I expect a slow start from him so following the grain early on isn't necessarily scummy, if that makes sense.

I read through your reasons for ooba being town but he seems like the kind of dude who's competent as scum and as such his posting seems pretty fakeable to me.

His 007 post killed me so I'll probably not lynch him yet. I do have other reasons for him being town lately, but I'd rather let you guys sort him out on your own because the wagon isn't that bad and it'd be nice to have somebody check my work since ooba is competent as scum. Still feels town, though. I would pay special attention to the end of #513, though; that was pretty cool.

Weren't you going to vote me for my stance *except* that you knew I was faking?
So...shouldn't you vote me now that you know I wasn't?

I knew you were faking the "I'm conftown" stuff and probably don't hold that belief in your mind as many times as you say it. I can also vote you if you want me to but my heart's not gonna be in it and I wouldn't want to accidentally lynch you.

[Nautilius]

Andrius

elleheathen

Goat on a Raft (Channeldelibird/AurorusVox)
Messiah Complex (Desperado/Formerfish)

ooba

PeaceBringer
quadz08
SafetyDance
StupendousMan
Syryana
Thor665

[Goat on a Raft]

Why bother posting a reads list if it's going to be stack of waffles?

We were asked. Considered doing it more briefly or not at all but decided there was no harm in it.

[kanyeknowsbest]

i have a lot of pages i need 2 read

[Messiah Complex]

Spoiler: Notes from Desperado

Kanye - #48, early PNJ wagon, #74, #140
Thor - Claims miller, #521 benmage omgus feels genuine,
mollie - #83, #212 quadz drops it pretty quick too, #236 bad amrun vote, #343 no mollie not that, please not that, #354 agreed about Cephrir, #548/#549 why is this scumSyry?
Nautilus - #347 why is Cephrir town, #378 why are you already WKing stup?, #440 solid lynch pool, #452 townnacho, #463 why is andrius town now? #473 nacho towncase, #480 I know so why did you WK him earlier?
Tammy - #97, early PNJ wagon, #169 scum don't openly talk like this, #208 I've seen town and scum Tammy interject this looks like the former, #433 why is quadz town
Benmage - #518 this isn't scumtalk
PNJ - #118 I saw the same thing re: Elle, #124, #460 weird ooba hop
Amrun - #230 good hunting, #494 apology is sincere, #528 I totally agree,
ooba - #271 naked reads bleh, #334 calls elle easy target < hate that, #434 active lurking, #445 good response, #513 more townposting
Shadoweh - #207 I agree
Cephrir - #174 I dunno what do you think it is?, #319 bad thor mudsling (you didn't even know his playstyle??), #451 bad unvote, #539 townposting,
Alfred - #353 don't like quadz turn at all (buddy?)
Elle - #447 lots of townreads, wanna find some scum?
Tierce - #233 bad amrun vote
Andrius - fucking post restriction
Garruk - Bad wagon hop re: Elle #138
quadz - weak slip push, #437 good ooba vote, #441 bad ooba case, #487 decent rebuttal, #522 meh
Stupendous - #292 terrible quadz vote--wafflewaffle
Goat - Bad Cephrir vote--Zdenek did same thing, #459 bad vote "may change if my other head wnats it to" fencesitter, #511 why are you involving yourself in this conversation, #529 again with the parroting, weird Benmage interaction
Zdenek - Bad RVS vote, bad kanye vote, #187, #193 good question since you did the same thing (buddy?), #396 bad thor vote, #492 why? Thor doesn't need help

Spoiler: Notes from Formerfish

Alfred- t198, t221, t295
Amrun- s230, s251
Andrius- t269
Benmage- s22, s300, s426
Cephrir- s53, s77, t205
elleheathren- t110, t282, s326, t447
garruk- s18, s40, s96, s98-99, s108, s138
Goat- s43, t288, t299
Kanye0 t36, t47, t52, t111, t168
Macmollie- t17, t83, n212, s343, s365, s429
Nautilis- s381, s435
ooba- s271, s331
peacebringer- t127, t167
prideandjoy- s54, t66-67, t130, t235, s340-341
Quadz- t78, t244, t267, t298, t422
Safetydance- null
shadoweh- s24, s34, s71, t149, t207, s285
stupendous- s81, s292, s374
Syryana- null
Tammy- t106, t169, s179, t186, ?248, s 293, s359-361, t417-418
Thor- t310, t328
Tierce- t50, t73, t103, t233, t281
zdenek- t187, s396

Vote: Stupendous Man

VOTE: Andrius

No godless man may sit the seastone chair.

RVSes too late

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Quadz

Lots of fluff posting without much content. His vote/unvote of elle seemed really awkward. However, at this point it's mostly a gut read. I still have some reading to do, so this may change.

Opportunistic wagon hop + fencesit combo meal

are you town or scum this game?

Are you serious? Explain what this question would accomplish, if anything.

Why do you care what it can accomplish?

@Tammy- Care to elaborate on that vote?

I wish people would townread me for being snippy.

Hmm... nope.

I'm waiting in line at a Chipotle but I just want to say, holy fucking shit, my kingdom for a doublevote right now.

I expect some reasons from you whenever you get the chance instead of casting baseless suspicion.

Why so eager to defend yourself?

@Tammy- Care to elaborate on that vote?.

I didn't like your one "content" post.

So, you saw my vote, which means you're reading along, yeah? Any thoughts on the game so far?

Only the more recent pages. I skimmed over the rest. Quadz is still scummy. Cephrir's posts are good. Not much else at the moment. I still need to read more before making any major conclusions.

@Shadoweh- You're null so it would've been pointless to comment on your alignment anyway. I was simply pointing out that your attitude doesn't make you town. Mollie's question wasn't scummy, but I don't see any reason for asking if someone is town or scum.

mebbe it would make him claim town

I want them to send up a strong town flare cos if they are town they are good for the game

why does this bother you

So as soon as someone says "I'm town" you believe them?

"Not much else at the moment?" How about Thor's miller claim, or the Elle wagon, or anything at all really? Cephrir's posts are good?

Stupendousman doing a less than stupendous job of trying to look useful

We agree.

- Des

[elleheathen]

[sarcasm]Nameclaim: Casso, King of the Seals[/sarcasm]

That is all.[/b]

@Elle - that all said, you wanted the name claim to...scumhunt me in some manner...you apparently did nothing with it besides just going 'that's a weird claim...must be legit!'
Did I miss something?

Meh. When I asked, I figured there'd be some obvious revelation to go along with it. Like if it were, say, Tyrion, someone inherently good but whose alignment is always quesionable - who I could easily see as a miller.) You basically point out how stupid that is and I agree and drop it - a lot of that due to the fact that I hadn't much considered the more obscure selections we could have picked - or that it probably wouldn't be as obvious as I was thinking it might be.

I never said it was legit - and in my previous post am outlining exactly that - that I thought you were bullshitting me with the name claim but I didn't read your further commentary on it as snarky/sarcastic so it confused me.

[Cephrir]

Messiah's entrance is kinda scummy for me, don't care for the note formatting as they don't feel like how a townie would keep their notes, but I do agree with their vote and assessment of SM. Why no special mention of Garuk if one of your heads is apparently scumreading half their posts- just because that head isn't the one posting?

[Cephrir]

Forgot to mention- method of attacking SM is kind of robotic (because that's every post he's made, even though neither of you had notes about 2 of his posts on initial read) even if the points it makes are solid.

[macmollie]

benny are you always like this

Like what? Annoyed at having my time wasted? Yes. Annoyed at players thinking it's funny to joke when you're genuinely trying to understand the game.. and I don't know trying to do something to progress the game further a long. Yes... Annoyed at having Noones who don't have the mafia capacity, experience or knowledge of an infant talking down to me... Yeah, its comically bad. But I guess that's where people have regressed too. How many people even mentioned KK's Miller Gambit. How many of the 013's even know Scum have claimed miller and won several times. There's a reason I'm good. I've fucking seen everything, but even mentioning that and being annoyed at Thor playing games is a Cardnial Sin.. Than I'll be fine with sitting around twiddling thumbs and hoping Cops win the game for us like this generation does. There's no playing mafia anymore... just Roles and mods, and corpses.

I meant so easily wound up.

benny, I don't think any1 is talking down to you but I can feel how frustrated you are. I think syrlacious was just trying to be funny but failing miserably at it and we should let him know how unfunny he is so he never gets the idea to quit his day job. I love sylacious for his looks, not for his wit.

played a clash of kings game (offsite) where a player won the game when all he said was "hodor". I know what it is like to have scum win games with what should be shitty claims.

also you are talking to some1 who is still butthurt over losing the red wedding game. while reck's claim and the groundwork he laid for it was brilliant, his overall play was kind of dismal as in if weren't it for the claim he would have been lynched. I really don't want to lose this 1.

thor looks scummy to me cos he is sitting back and insulting every1. it is the same sort of laziness that reck had in rw, the "I produce a claim, you guys can't say crap about it, I am so awsum haha, joke is on you". <------I could of course be making all of this up in my head but that is what it looks like so far.

consider this a hardcore reach out as in here is my hand plz take it cos I really want to win this game. plz plz plz take I want to work with you cos I think we are on the same side.

[Desperado]

Messiah's entrance is kinda scummy for me, don't care for the note formatting as they don't feel like how a townie would keep their notes, but I do agree with their vote and assessment of SM. Why no special mention of Garuk if one of your heads is apparently scumreading half their posts- just because that head isn't the one posting?

How would a townie keep notes? I read through the game and mentioned posts that leaned one direction or the other.

Pretty much yeah.

Forgot to mention- method of attacking SM is kind of robotic (because that's every post he's made, even though neither of you had notes about 2 of his posts on initial read) even if the points it makes are solid.

It's robotic because most of the points made are also reiteration. If I had left a naked vote would you be questioning that format as well?

I'm not sure why you're going out of your way to be suspect of the formatting of the post when you agree with the content. What's up with that?

Also your recent interaction with Thor is really really scummy. You don't care for his playstyle so you're just shutting down completely? Grow up.

[Desperado]

Mollie I think you're making it up in your head. Thor isn't presenting his claim that way at all and this isn't similar to Reck in RW.

Vote Stup with me?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Messiah's entrance is kinda scummy for me, don't care for the note formatting as they don't feel like how a townie would keep their notes, but I do agree with their vote and assessment of SM. Why no special mention of Garuk if one of your heads is apparently scumreading half their posts- just because that head isn't the one posting?

How would a townie keep notes? I read through the game and mentioned posts that leaned one direction or the other.

Pretty much yeah.

Forgot to mention- method of attacking SM is kind of robotic (because that's every post he's made, even though neither of you had notes about 2 of his posts on initial read) even if the points it makes are solid.

It's robotic because most of the points made are also reiteration. If I had left a naked vote would you be questioning that format as well?

I'm not sure why you're going out of your way to be suspect of the formatting of the post when you agree with the content. What's up with that?

Also your recent interaction with Thor is really really scummy. You don't care for his playstyle so you're just shutting down completely? Grow up.

Mollie I think you're making it up in your head. Thor isn't presenting his claim that way at all and this isn't similar to Reck in RW.

Vote Stup with me?

- Des

sorry

[macmollie]

Benmage. Calm down. I know you're going through hard stuff IRL, but you don't even know Syryana. He wasn't being disrespectful, at most he was saying you are easy to wind up. Which, let's face it, you are. Besides, grouping people under "013ers" as if that means anything less than you is just as disrespectful as what you're saying others are putting you through. He is a competent player. A troll, yes (if you knew him you'd know his first post in the game was him impersonating fferyllt as if they were hydraing; frankly, it was hilarious), but one of my favorite MSers right now, and it should be pretty obvious I only like people I consider capable and competent. So please step down from your high horse, because you have some behaviors that are reminiscent of poor, inexperienced players. Syryana analyzes the game, is competent as both alignments, and a good asset to the Town (or scum).

Relax. Hunt scum (or be obvscum, please and thank you because I'm not even reading the game so you have to try really hard for me to see it). Let the 013ers and 011ers do their thing. If I don't break the site again tonight (and if I'm not in town, Syr--no promises with your timezone, but we can be night owls together), you'll see them dance. I promise we're excellent waltzers, and the band plays on.

mollie <3 tierce

[macmollie]

thor, here is your cake:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4798828

That's an example of a Cop fakeclaiming Miller and not being lynched Day one...seems in line with what I've said wherein Miller claims are never lynched Day 1, and indeed are highly unlikely lynches ever.

its called I WAS PROVING YOUR POINT BY PROVIDING AN EXAMPLE

@ tierce

what is your read on tammy?

[Cephrir]

Messiah's entrance is kinda scummy for me, don't care for the note formatting as they don't feel like how a townie would keep their notes, but I do agree with their vote and assessment of SM. Why no special mention of Garuk if one of your heads is apparently scumreading half their posts- just because that head isn't the one posting?

How would a townie keep notes? I read through the game and mentioned posts that leaned one direction or the other.

Pretty much yeah.

With more detail than "post X is scummy".

Forgot to mention- method of attacking SM is kind of robotic (because that's every post he's made, even though neither of you had notes about 2 of his posts on initial read) even if the points it makes are solid.

It's robotic because most of the points made are also reiteration. If I had left a naked vote would you be questioning that format as well?

I'm not sure why you're going out of your way to be suspect of the formatting of the post when you agree with the content. What's up with that?.

A.) No, it's robotic because it's a PBPA when it didn't need to be. Yes, I would absolutely be questioning that as well.

B.) I'm not going out of my way to do anything, and I don't care for your implication that I did. If I don't like something, I'm going to say it.

[Desperado]

With more detail than "post X is scummy".

Do you think either of us can't answer why any particular post pinged one way or the other or what?

And my point is that you're cheerleading my vote + content on Stup but you're a) not voting them with me and b) slinging suspicion based on post formation. Talking out of both sides of your mouth, if you will.

[Messiah Complex]

With more detail than "post X is scummy".

Do you think either of us can't answer why any particular post pinged one way or the other or what?

And my point is that you're cheerleading my vote + content on Stup but you're a) not voting them with me and b) slinging suspicion based on post formation. Talking out of both sides of your mouth, if you will.