Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[Bert]

Why would that make sense? Our town poisoner has more kills than the scum team?

Perhaps we've wiped out one team and the other is acting like a VIG?

Maybe. That crossed my mind to.

Yeah, the NK makes absolutely no sense. Maybe it's like that Skype game the other day where Nacho and I were scum, and Empire and ProHawk were third party lovers?

Wasn't Mara the moderator of that game?

[Bert]

That was 9 or 10 players though, so maybe because this is 13, so the third party lovers get a kill. This is pure speculation, guys, ignore me if I'm blabbering nonsense.

[Tammy]

Why would that make sense? Our town poisoner has more kills than the scum team?

Perhaps we've wiped out one team and the other is acting like a VIG?

Maybe. That crossed my mind to.

Yeah, the NK makes absolutely no sense. Maybe it's like that Skype game the other day where Nacho and I were scum, and Empire and ProHawk were third party lovers?

Wasn't Mara the moderator of that game?

Yes, she was. And the game before she was a sk who opened the game with talking about her confirmable role.

[Bert]

Unvote

Nacho come talk to us please

It might be 2 v 4 LYLO tomorrow with one poisoned (me) tomorrow if Mara/qwints is a 3rd party lover pair

Makes sense

No quicklynching
Yesterday's NL may have been a blessing in disguise

/phone post

[Bert]

Perhaps we've wiped out one team and the other is acting like a VIG?

This. I think you're right. You and Empire read each other well and also aren't a team, can't see either of you as scum.

I can't see Nacho as scum after his interactions yesterday especially, not to mention the Desperado-scum interactions.

Also, last scum not having a kill? Sounds pretty unlikely to me.

or last scum can't kill.

So effectively if I am poisoned tonight and Matt/Generic die today, then the remaining players are:

Empire + Tammy + Nacho vs. Mara + qwints

If you all are to go through with this matt lynch today, I will be here tomorrow, albeit poisoned, and will push push push for Mara/qwints to be lynched.

But after Con Mafia, I am increasingly wary of whether we lose today if we mislynch. That voice in the back of my head.

So, if I were to go with instinct here, I'd go ahead and lynch Mara/qwints because (1) I don't really think Matt is scum anymore, to be quite frank with you.

[Bert]

it's better to discuss the harder lynches.

Makes sense from a 3rd party perspective to leave the lynchbait alive to garner a mislynch, and kill one that would be extremely hard to push and get lynched (Generic).

Vote: Marangal

Going with gut here, and no I'm being stubborn and am not lynching Matt today. Either way, I am no longer in favor of any quick lynching at all. Never thought I'd hear myself say that.

Generic, I think you were right about Mara. Sorry for not listening to you.

[projectmatt]

I'm confused and I'll try to ge some stuff in as soon as possible, though it may not be tonight. Don't quicklynch me while I'm gone

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 4.2

projectmatt [3] - Ms Marangal, Nachomamma8, qwints

Ms Marangal [1] - Bert

Not Voting [4] - projectmatt, Empire, Tammy, Generic

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch

.

Deadline is October 6, 2013, at 11:00 AM PST.
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-10-06 13:00:00)

[Generic]

Mara fucked up, but I wouldn't expect any less from her. She hasn't got anything right all game. She poisoned someone who she was then convinced was town... Laughable.
She refused to accept desp as scum until he fake claimed HER role... Ridiculous.
And now she has poisoned a guy who was almost mod killed over his assertion of being town... Retarded.

Anyway, since this is my last day, if mafia don't have a night kill anymore it leaves the poisoner. And of course they will claim the other is mod cleared town, lovers win as a third party entity.

vote mara

I have just the one day left, so lets see if I can live to see the mafia finished.

[Generic]

Incidentally, my day 1/ page 2 reads were empire, shadoweh and mara... Not bad if mara flips scum and means for all her bullshit I proved I can read her within a page. She got protection from too many of you MS peeps and my home issues saved her from me being in a position to keep control to keep pushing.

If I'm wrong, meh. 1/3 still is currently better than her tally of 0/3

[Bert]

Why would that make sense? Our town poisoner has more kills than the scum team?

Perhaps we've wiped out one team and the other is acting like a VIG?

Maybe. That crossed my mind to.

Yeah, the NK makes absolutely no sense. Maybe it's like that Skype game the other day where Nacho and I were scum, and Empire and ProHawk were third party lovers?

Wasn't Mara the moderator of that game?

Yes, she was. And the game before she was a sk who opened the game with talking about her confirmable role.

Nacho, please read this. Make sure you read this and talk to me/us about this.

No more of this quicklynch-Matt thing.

Because I am 100% positive Mara and qwints are 3rd party lovers.

[Bert]

Also, Tammy, think of 501 Stacking the Deck, Nacho you too.

I remember Tammy you made the comment (or was it Tierce) post-game where you said that Sakura made good, solid kill choices that eliminated top suspects (Mac, Ruffig, etc.). Sakura didn't try to be the hero and kill whoever she/he herself/himself suspected. Although scum weren't hit, the choices made sense.

Mara's here (Shoe, and then GENERIC (????)) especially after what we had advised her on...they do NOT make sense!

That is what I'm trying to point out.

[Bert]

TYPO: make sense for town* (sorry in a rush here before shopping time

[Generic]

If I may be allowed to stroke my ego for a second, maras choice to take me out now reflects on how much she fears my growth in this game.

Ok, got that put of my system.

unvote

Why did shadoweh not grass her up?

You have just heard your TEAMMATE has poisoned YOU... And you keep pretending you are town? That shadoweh and mara interactions I need to reread. Mara could still be scum. It's the best play as lovers to kill off the scum and then work on the town...

But actually,

vote mara

.

Tactically it makes sense. Kill off the scum immediately. Go with the towns wishes the next day to sound out Tammys actions and be sure of the kill. THEN target a player of influence, but you have heard tammy can target herself and you can't risk her targeting nacho and stopping you (not to mention you have made it clear you think nacho is given in game).

So you are left with me and bert. I'm a bigger threat to you cos bert has defended you to me. I'm growing back into the game and you of all people know what I'm capable of when I spot something. So you kill me under the story of never having trusted me, then push a lynch on matt knowing that was the way yesterday was going. And as you said, you couldn't get me lynched, you tried and failed when I was at a low ebb do now I'm fighting fit you are fucked.

No, I think bert has seen it, I have certainly seen it. I'm confident this is a third party team.

[Generic]

Empire. Were the character names in your hood shared?

This is vital.

[Generic]

Were they shared PREGAME?

[Empire]

Empire. Were the character names in your hood shared?

This is vital.

Not in the pregame, no.

This is mostly to show that I still exist. I'm a little bit hungover, so I'll catch up tonight after dinner.

[Ms Marangal]

I'm not scum

[Nachomamma8]

you guys are fucking killing me right now

[Ms Marangal]

And no one has brought up the fact that, I cannot be scum without qwints this game, and if we are both scum, then this game a team of four with considerable amount of power considering that I would technically give the team two kills, with only one power-role which is restricted in that, she can't even learn who else targets her targets.

[Bert]

We (Generic and I, and possibly Tammy (?)) suggesting the possibility/likelihood of you being a third-party lover pair, NOT mafia.

Therefore, that would be two lovers + two mafia + 9 town.

Again, nowhere did we say you two are mafia. I am of the belief that you two are third-party lovers.

Mara, read this:

Spoiler:

Why would that make sense? Our town poisoner has more kills than the scum team?

Perhaps we've wiped out one team and the other is acting like a VIG?

Maybe. That crossed my mind to.

Yeah, the NK makes absolutely no sense. Maybe it's like that Skype game the other day where Nacho and I were scum, and Empire and ProHawk were third party lovers?

Wasn't Mara the moderator of that game?

Yes, she was. And the game before she was a sk who opened the game with talking about her confirmable role.

[Bert]

I'm not scum

Why did you ignore this whole page of discussion which was centered around you being 3rd-party lovers, NOT scum/mafia.

The fact that you come out and say "I'm not scum" rather than "I'm not third-party or scum" or "I'm town" is very concerning

And no one has brought up the fact that, I cannot be scum without qwints this game, and if we are both scum, then this game a team of four with considerable amount of power considering that

I would technically give the team two kills

, with only one power-role which is restricted in that, she can't even learn who else targets her targets.

Again, nowhere have we suggested that you are scum. We have suggested that you are a third-lover party pair of lovers, so your notion that you would give the team "two kills" is simply blasphemy. Two scum teams to balance each other out (much like Masons and Monks, or even Fire and Ice) is reasonable.

[Empire]

Ok so I just want to say that I'm really really sorry for not having been around the past few days (I didn't post anything in the Neighborhood aside from a bit of stuff past the Shoe flip) and couldn't have stopped the Generic kill due to IRL stuff. I was debating big time between him and Nacho for which townie to endgame in my autowin scenario but fucked up by not having the time to post.

Second, can someone who actually knows about balance tell me which is more likely to be the case between the last scum not having a NK vs. Marangal/qwints being third party lovers?

It'd be kind of funny (and perverse) if I was the only townie in my Neighborhood.

[Tammy]

Okay I didn't have time to come back to this really cuz kitten and omg.

Here's my thing, I just don't understand how we can think that scum were given only one night kill to use and believe he gave town an unlimited vig poisoner. That just really makes no sense whatsoever to me.

Who thinks a mod goes, okay so that sounds balanced. Scum team would have had to hit us night one in order to have a chance of winning because then the two confirmed town people make it to endgame and they what?

Nope sorry not buying it.

I guess you can claim the scum team got a ninja, but what for? I can't actually see who I protect and all if does is serve to not let me know if I protected correctly. So, you're claiming that the scum team tried to kill me the night before last but I thwarted them because I chose right and then last night tried to kill Mara but I thwarted them because I chose right? I mean I would love to be like awesome doctor that could guess where the scum kill was going to go and protect there, but I also have a result of noone visiting me the night I protected myself or Mara last night.

If we're going to argue for something insane as he only gave the scum team one kill, I don't see why 3rd party lovers is insane.

I guess the other thing you could argue is they withheld the kills. Maybe the first time as I had claimed to be full watcher, but last night after I confessed I'm a blind watcher? I don't get it. But why would they withhold the kills anyway? Just doesn't make sense.

[Generic]

The one thing that is bugging my though is desps claim.

In his team if its mara and shadoweh he would see two wingates. He would borrow one of the other twos' character and if there was no claiming in the good maybe he hasn't been tipped off by the other two that would not work out.
Had he made it to day 2 he would know that the setup demanded he be a servant... Why didn't he get a fake claim?

To be honest I see no rationale behind mara choosing me, if she wants to explain it in fine detail that would be nice. Her reaction to it all was shit with a simple 'I'm not scum' then completely ignoring the point raised to clear herself on false logic.

And she knows the third party setup, I know she knows. She uses it herself.