A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Messiah Complex]

mebbe he comes off as forced cos he is newbtown worried about getting lynched.

or you mebbe right and he is scum and his scummates are trying to bus him.

there are actually a lot of reasons why he may across as "forced" but it may have nothing to do with his alignment.

he seems new. he seems like he is trying to find his way. <-----no way I am voting that, if he did something outstandingly scummy then yeah but he hasn't.that is why if he flips scum I will think it is a bus and if he flips town we know where to look.

Yeah, Peace being the 4th one who seemingly divined that Stup was scum upon reread is enough for me to go elsewhere.

Unvote
Vote: Zdenek

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

@ Goat: What are you two doing? You basically copy our paper on Stup and then drop it as soon as Thor pokes one hole? Only to vote the other easy wagon du jour?

You say you aren't scum but your actions are saying otherwise.

[Goat on a Raft]

This head didn't read the final few pages of the thread in full, switching to iso when we thought we might be voting Stupendous, so didn't get as far as reading your case. And yes, it turns out we saw similar things. However, we think Thor has a point (and the part in which he poked a hole was, this head feels, the most important part of the case).

Now we have got quite a lot of names in our 'town for today' pile now and SafetyDance is one of the only ones left. At this point we feel the game needs a good wagon and SafetyDance will do.

Also, get an avatar, it makes your cases more likely to stick in the memory (seriously).

[Alfred Borden]

Just a notice from this head (Empire) that I PASSED THE FLORIDA BAR EXAM WOOO and the swearing in ceremony is tomorrow afternoon/evening, so my posting will be almost nil until that's done.

[Goat on a Raft]

Well done, Empire!

[Cephrir]

{cephrir, zdenek, stupendous, garruk} is our conslidated lynchpool at the moment.

Cephrir - Continually puts down our case on Stupendous yet sheeps it. I don't see any of his own reasoning for Stupendous being his "top suspect," at least. Also reminiscent of his interactions with Elle and Thor during their argument, where he attacked Thor for not engaging with topics of discussion that Cephrir himself later admits aren't any good. Especially given he had already pledged to ignore Thor prior to. He's playing both sides on a lot of issues and it's super scummy.

I did not put down your case. I think it is well-reasoned but also that the way you went about it was scummy. If he flips scum, I will suspect you marginally less. I will have that same argument with Thor every day, you still have to answer accusations that aren't great- and more importantly my issue was that he cherry picked the even worse ones to make her look bad. I don't know what you mean about playing both sides but if you're expecting strong stances out of me on day 1 you're not going to get any.

zdenek - Zdenek's Goat push is really bad:

UNVOTE: StupendousMan, VOTE: Cephrir

Cephrir could have joined kanye in getting the game started. He didn't.

Why are you focussing on Cephir here?

When you consider that Zdenek was one of the people who didn't join Kanye in getting the game started:

Vote: Benmage

Obviously.

I'd also echo Stupendous' 811, and Zdenek's handling of Thor's claim doesn't show much town thought process either.

I don't see the issue with the first point here, but the second is better. It amuses me that you're agreeing with Stupendousman here. I agree with you about him while scumreading you and I'm scum, but you're allowed to agree with his Zdenek case enough to vote on it?

@ macmollie: the safetydance wagon is totally whack, I agree. What're you seeing with Stup? Is it because the wagon's been a little too easy? Because I feel like Nautilus, Cephrir, and Goat all basically just sheeped it and it's making me uneasy. And who are you looking at if not them?

This makes me feel slightly better about you even though it would do the reverse in a void.

[StupendousMan]

Desp, you should vote Zdenek with me.

@Tierce- Empire said something polite in the post where he addressed me, so I returned the favor.

@Shadoweh- Who do you think is scum right now? I'm too lazy to look back.

[StupendousMan]

Oh shit, I didn't even see this page. Disregard what I wrote to Desp.

[Cephrir]

Desp, you should vote Zdenek with me.

@Tierce- Empire said something polite in the post where he addressed me, so I returned the favor.

@Shadoweh- Who do you think is scum right now? I'm too lazy to look back.

Is it strange that I think this is town as shit?

[Cephrir]

(Yes, yes it is)

[Desperado]

I did not put down your case. I think it is well-reasoned but also that the way you went about it was scummy. If he flips scum, I will suspect you marginally less. I will have that same argument with Thor every day, you still have to answer accusations that aren't great- and more importantly my issue was that he cherry picked the even worse ones to make her look bad. I don't know what you mean about playing both sides but if you're expecting strong stances out of me on day 1 you're not going to get any.

I'm pretty sure you did but looking back the posts were referring to multiple people so I may have read it wrong. What were you referring to you when you said this?

I also mentioned earlier that I agreed with the thrust of Messiah's case on SM.

The case just isn't very persuasive or strong, nor does it look like it could plausibly convince anyone.

I'm not really looking for strong stances, just consistent ones. If you thought most of Elle's concerns weren't valid, I don't understand why you thought you had to attack Thor for not answering them. If you think our case is well reasoned, I don't understand why you would go out of your way to undermine it (by scumreading us for the formatting of our notes) and then sheep it later anyway.

I don't see the issue with the first point here, but the second is better. It amuses me that you're agreeing with Stupendousman here. I agree with you about him while scumreading you and I'm scum, but you're allowed to agree with his Zdenek case enough to vote on it?

I don't think Stup is scum anymore. How does this affect your amusement level?

@ Stup: Already did. What's the rest of your scumpool look like?

[Messiah Complex]

I did not put down your case. I think it is well-reasoned but also that the way you went about it was scummy. If he flips scum, I will suspect you marginally less. I will have that same argument with Thor every day, you still have to answer accusations that aren't great- and more importantly my issue was that he cherry picked the even worse ones to make her look bad. I don't know what you mean about playing both sides but if you're expecting strong stances out of me on day 1 you're not going to get any.

I'm pretty sure you did but looking back the posts were referring to multiple people so I may have read it wrong. What were you referring to you when you said this?

I also mentioned earlier that I agreed with the thrust of Messiah's case on SM.

The case just isn't very persuasive or strong, nor does it look like it could plausibly convince anyone.

I'm not really looking for strong stances, just consistent ones. If you thought most of Elle's concerns weren't valid, I don't understand why you thought you had to attack Thor for not answering them. If you think our case is well reasoned, I don't understand why you would go out of your way to undermine it (by scumreading us for the formatting of our notes) and then sheep it later anyway.

I don't see the issue with the first point here, but the second is better. It amuses me that you're agreeing with Stupendousman here. I agree with you about him while scumreading you and I'm scum, but you're allowed to agree with his Zdenek case enough to vote on it?

I don't think Stup is scum anymore. How does this affect your amusement level?

@ Stup: Already did. What's the rest of your scumpool look like?

- Des

[Cephrir]

I'm pretty sure you did but looking back the posts were referring to multiple people so I may have read it wrong. What were you referring to you when you said this?

I also mentioned earlier that I agreed with the thrust of Messiah's case on SM.

The case just isn't very persuasive or strong, nor does it look like it could plausibly convince anyone.

Oh. I was referring to Stup's case on Zdenek.

I'm not really looking for strong stances, just consistent ones. If you thought most of Elle's concerns weren't valid, I don't understand why you thought you had to attack Thor for not answering them. If you think our case is well reasoned, I don't understand why you would go out of your way to undermine it (by scumreading us for the formatting of our notes) and then sheep it later anyway.

Not invalid, just not clear-cut solid points for finding someone scummy. It would've been better in my eyes if Thor had ignored her entirely than only responding to the particularly shitty parts- it was a misrep.

If I'm scumreading someone, I'm not smart or organized enough to not say it and save it for later. If I don't like a post I'm going to say I don't like the post even if that damages an argument I want to make.

[Cephrir]

I don't think Stup is scum anymore. How does this affect your amusement level?

It seems like a sudden heel face turn given that it was just based on the way the wagon built up rather than actual things, but also [redacted].

[Tammy]

Holy wall wars 2013!

[StupendousMan]

@ Stup: Already did. What's the rest of your scumpool look like?

I honestly don't have any real foundation for my other scumreads: Quadz, Shadoweh, PeaceBringer. They are all gut so I've kept quiet about them. It's actually kind of funny that I have so few scumreads since earlier I said that scum wouldn't give out too many scumreads. But yeah, that's it. Actually, if I look back I might be able to find some reasons for why I think PeaceBringer is scummy.

[Messiah Complex]

Holy wall wars 2013!

really?

@ Ceph: Are you saying that the composition of a wagon isn't a real thing? You told us that you didn't want to do a list because they're juvenile or some shit, then you did one and it magically popped out a top suspect anyway? Nautilus "resorts" to Stup after telling me he had planned on giving them some room this game, Goat rereads and acquires a scum suspect that they immediately drop the moment someone questions it, and then peace rereads and, lo and behold, he votes stup too. None of these votes made me feel like I was on the right path. Should they have?

- Des

[Cephrir]

Holy wall wars 2013!

really?

@ Ceph: Are you saying that the composition of a wagon isn't a real thing? You told us that you didn't want to do a list because they're juvenile or some shit, then you did one and it magically popped out a top suspect anyway? Nautilus "resorts" to Stup after telling me he had planned on giving them some room this game, Goat rereads and acquires a scum suspect that they immediately drop the moment someone questions it, and then peace rereads and, lo and behold, he votes stup too. None of these votes made me feel like I was on the right path. Should they have?

- Des

No, I'm not saying that. I just don't worry about it as much as you do and I wouldn't back off a scumread because of it. Bussing happens.

[Messiah Complex]

I'm not backing off though, I'm turning around and running in the other direction. And you pretty clearly did say that when you said "it was just based on the way the wagon built up rather than actual things."

- Des

[Cephrir]

I'm not backing off though, I'm turning around and running in the other direction. And you pretty clearly did say that when you said "it was just based on the way the wagon built up rather than actual things."

- Des

"Actual things" as in things based on Stup's posts

If you can;t tell the difference between my use of 'things' in those posts I can't help you

[Cephrir]

Tierce- here's me doing the same thing only way way more in open 527. Yeah, blah blah self meta blah.

Is there some meta I'm not aware of or is 427 as town as it looks

I guess that could be deliberate exaggeration due to TF's commentary but I sure do like this

I am not used to people reading me as town if they haven't played with me before, BUT

BUT you are still taking such a quick stance on me being town after people are scumreading me

the defense feels nice, not gnona lie, it's nice to have my back patted BUT not feeling great about it tbh or you

Cephrir you can't even explain why Im really town. Really? Umm... Something's fishy

And yeah, i agree with Tip and ffery - "I get to play today! Great!" sounds pretty contrived

I've been gut reading you as town ever since you stopped being shodan, i don't think you've said a single thing that didn't sound absurdly genuine.

Okay, if you want, that can be contrived.

Bert

If you want to suspect me that's fine

But I really wish you'd get over the fact that I am townreading you and it's a silly reason to suspect me.

I'm slightly nervous about VS as well, just because one of the members obviously doesn't want to vote me and the other keeps doing it, that seems like potentially fake hydra dis and a fairly easy way to have it. Please don't lynch me before I have time to make a decent post.

Bert- if he's scum I'll eat my detective hat, never had a gut read this strong ever.

[Zdenek]

Kanye,

yep

You should explain this.

I swear to God Kanye. This shouldn't be so difficult.

[Zdenek]

go ahead and deny it again, Zdenek

I didn't deny it. I just pointed out that it doesn't have to be.

My current thoughts are that Zdenek is scum.

Cute. Care to address the fact that your reasons are ridiculous?

mebbe he comes off as forced cos he is newbtown worried about getting lynched.

or you mebbe right and he is scum and his scummates are trying to bus him.

there are actually a lot of reasons why he may across as "forced" but it may have nothing to do with his alignment.

he seems new. he seems like he is trying to find his way. <-----no way I am voting that, if he did something outstandingly scummy then yeah but he hasn't.that is why if he flips scum I will think it is a bus and if he flips town we know where to look.

You're talking about StupendousMan?

Not

that

new. Newer than most people here, sure, but don't use that as an excuse. With that said, I believe that slot is Town, but the over-politeness is somewhat concerning.

Tierce maybe scum for attacking and defending Stup. in the same post.

We already have Mollie in this game...
Hint: it's not pro-town when she does it either.
Additional Hint: when a scumhunting "style" is described as "unexplainable" I always translate that to "illogical and should be ignored because they're making gak up and lack the grapefruits to just say so either to others, and possibly themselves."

Bullshit- crap like this is why I am a fish outta water here- sorry to flake but

REPLACE OUT

Peacebringer folding under such little pressure is a problem.

Cephrir - Continually puts down our case on Stupendous yet sheeps it.

This is the sort of reasoning that I can get behind, but where did he put down your case?

When you consider that Zdenek was one of the people who didn't join Kanye in getting the game started:

What makes you think that I had a problem with people who didn't join Kanye in "getting the game started."

Hint: I didn't.

[Garruk Relentless]

Kanye,

yep

You should explain this.

I swear to God Kanye. This shouldn't be so difficult.

Kanye only explains things when he feels its necessary. He never seems to explain when asked.

-SSK

[Zdenek]

Kanye,

yep

You should explain this.

I swear to God Kanye. This shouldn't be so difficult.

Kanye only explains things when he feels its necessary. He never seems to explain when asked.

-SSK

Well, laa dee daa. He should answer because to me it looks like he's selectively scum hunting.