Big Brother: HoH Mafia (We have a winner at last)

[Titus]

That's recent scum meta of KBW

[Imperium]

Town:

Toogeloo: I have liked much of his content. Bulbazak's pushing to discredit him only strengthens my read on him.

Leaning Town:

Imperium: does a lot of scumhunting, but some points(against me, sure) are looking strange.
blackberry: I liked his content on the first few pages. Don't remember him doing much later on though.
Toastytoast: His recent content has been pretty good. His questioning of Rach and his reads on BBMolla and blackberry stand out as town motivated for me.
Desperado: Mostly gut. There's something about his tone I like.
Null:
Titus: I had a scumread on her first, but I'm not sure anymore. I'm willing to give her the benifit of the doubt and see what happens on day 2.
Peacebringer: replacing out, so needs reevaluation later.

Leaning Scum:

keybladewielder: can only remember some questionable content. Not much else.
Minions: Bulbazak tries linking us together. Which means he's probably Bulbazak's scumbuddy.
BBMolla: seems to be going with the flow and choosing targets as they are called out by other people.
RachMarie: easy reads. Nothing original.

Scum:

Bulbazak: I don't think this needs explaining.


I can't really blame any of you if you want to put me up for eviction. I have not been contributing much. At least now you'll have something to go on if I get evicted.

I suppose I'll stick to voting my strongest townread.

VOTE: Toogeloo

gnomeo's last reads list.

-------

titus - I'll look at that game this weekend.

[Imperium]

4) My rough scum list atm (which I will give explanations for night 2--I would do it now but I'm doing homeworks and I know the day is closing soon): I would put up peacebringer and gnomeo, fine with either being lynched. I also find bulba and desperado scummy. Desperado is more a process of elimination scumread, i need to re-examine his slot. I know his reads are similar to mine, however.

Toasty says that on day one he'd put up peacebringer and gnomeo, is he that much of a busser?

[Imperium]

[7

] Gnomeo

- BBmolla, Keyblade, Bulba, Minions, Toasty, Titus,

IceGuy

[3]Desperado - Rach, F-16, Toogeloo

more crap to look at once i finish reading the game...tomorrow. I'm about to crash.

[Imperium]

Okay crashing..top of page 33 for myself tomorrow when I sit down to finish

[Minions]

Did bbmolla seriously call our claim bullshit then immediately insist we investigate him?

Lol. Not such bullshit that you want us to use it on you then?

Had it been us receiving the result and declaring it I could see why people would try and claim we are lying. But we don't even get the result. So what gain do we get from the lie? We weren't even front runners to be nominated.

~ Phil

[BBmolla]

Minions do you not agree that having a cop in a nightless is pretty damned broken

[Toogeloo]

4) My rough scum list atm (which I will give explanations for night 2--I would do it now but I'm doing homeworks and I know the day is closing soon): I would put up peacebringer and gnomeo, fine with either being lynched. I also find bulba and desperado scummy. Desperado is more a process of elimination scumread, i need to re-examine his slot. I know his reads are similar to mine, however.

Toasty says that on day one he'd put up peacebringer and gnomeo, is he that much of a busser?

He also used what I've seen as the "Rule of 4." As scum, mention four names with at least 1 scum in them. Toasty has probably put even less effort into this game than or most lethargic members. He's someone I would want to see nominated sooner than later.

[Toogeloo]

Toasty also fits what I would imagine the scum trying to fit into town the most. He's abiding the consensus of town, trying to look active, and bussing the dead weight to look spot on.

[Imperium]

I had been keeping a list of reads but I never found the need to post them since I just kept assuming that other people will find scum.

If you wrote them up, why not post them?

In any case, Tammy is quite transparent when she is town.

Where are Tammy's transparent posts?

Her read on Desperado looks to be very genuine and it mirrored a lot of my own read on him.

What do you think of her push on Minions?

Toogeloo’s latest posts have me suspecting him for reasons I can’t put into words very well. I felt that his posts were too smooth and something seems off. I trust BBMolla’s opinion on it that he is probably town because I am certain Molla is town and correct on most reads and in any case, I can’t really explain what it is I found off.

I didn't really expect you to say something like this. Toogeloo's posts are too smooth...?

Disagrees with reveal since it should be obvious. Points out that we can always question the HoH the next day. Agrees with KBW policy lynch. Proposes using FOSes as votes. Questions townread on Minion.
FOSses Minion for keeping his vote on the same random person saying that that is incredible trust to give to a random person so early in the game. Post 35 is scummy. 37 is somewhat townish.
Says that HoH needs to make a decision for the good of the town, not what town wants. Is afraid that the town is open to being influenced. Supports the HoH choosing whoever the HoH wants.
Bulbazak’s motivation for doing this is likely because he feels that he is not persuasive enough to drive lynches. If this is the case based on his meta, it makes sense as town. If he has usually got the lynches that he wants as town, then he is likely scum in this game.
Don’t like 56 where he says that RBD tends to be like that and is town.
206 is slightly scummy where he says that “Keeping your vote for HoH on a person you randomly selected after you realized your mistake is not.”
FOSses Gnomeo for using the same format for the reads list.

I expected you to have a stronger Bulbascum case, considering your conviction earlier. Where is it?

Has Tammy redacted F-16 scum yet?

She has, I think. I don't think that I'm ready to.

How many scum players are in a setup of this size? I keep seeing references to three scum votes in the latest eviction, but if ice guy couldn't vote that leaves three more scum if that's correct.

Four scum, knowledge is public.

Taste that sweet scum desperate need for survival.

Did you ignore Minions's cop claim...?

Imperium, if you're pretty sure those two are scum, feel free to put them up. I have an itching feeling KBW is scum.

Minions (Generic head), have you heard of mafia being played on a magic the gathering fan site?

Don't like this post. It is too noncommittal. Why not present your opinion instead of just saying "if you are okay with this, feel free to put them up?"

I thought you had a good townread on Titus...? "Noncommittal" is not that big of a deal.

Minions is probably scum because I doubt any town have power.

I agree, especially not Minion's specific power.

We're waiting for Nacho. Feel free to put him at L-2 or L-1 or whatever, I'm not hammering till he sees this claim.

Thanks gorgeous.

Imperium, try comparing this game play with Newbie 1396. That's recent scum meta.

She's still not scum.

[Imperium]

Nacho's problems with Minions-claim:

1) Balance - Scum has not showed any indication of killing power yet, and after we nominated two scumlynches in a row, I figure we would be dead right now if scum have the ability. L-1 HoH killer is a possibility, but limiting their killing power suggests that it's put in place as a scum power bonus and not as a necessity to preventing a broken game, and the game WOULD be broken if scum only has a one-shot killing power. Minions investigates one townie; confirms himself as town. Minions investigates another townie; also confirmed as town. Three confirmed town can vote one of themselves as HoH and kill nonthem indefinitely and thus pretty much autowin as long as town trusts all three. If they don't, they can lynch the cop, reveal his result as true, and still pretty much autowin (they can win even when mafia outnumber them!!!).

2) Mod Meta - Voidedmafia's mod meta to this day does not include any roles with unique powers. And while this game had an unexpected twist (nightless + HoH mechanic), I'm not sure that Voided would put anything close to Minions's claimed role in the game. It would not have a clean flip (Two-Shot HoH-specific Amnesiac Cop) and Voided hasn't modded a game with anything but clean flips (even in his weird game!), so I don't think he would post this role.

3) General Setup Speculation - I'm guessing this is an all-vanilla game. The general wave of agreement to Molla's speculation and lack of anyone responding in a weird way sort of confirms this. It is also the reason I want a massclaim; Minions confirmed as town would be incredible if they are actually town, but there's a much higher chance that they are scum and can be confirmed as scum by no other power roles showing up. Scum have demonstrated a distinct lack of killing power other than the JRBD kill so I'm not really too concerned about them dying.

4) Play issues - I don't buy that Minions didn't use cop powers on the first two days because it was "obvious" who was scummy; the first day it was fucking obvious Gnomeo was probably going to get lynched and Desperado wasn't on their radar so he would have been a fucking fantastic investigation. I know that one of the heads of Minions has a tendency to claim confirmable power roles as scum to buy more time, so the claim fits his scum playstyle completely and the chances of him rolling this specific role are slim slim slim.

[Minions]

Yet it's provable. So where is the gain in a lie?

[Toogeloo]

Nacho's problems with Minions-claim:

1) Balance - Scum has not showed any indication of killing power yet, and after we nominated two scumlynches in a row, I figure we would be dead right now if scum have the ability. L-1 HoH killer is a possibility, but limiting their killing power suggests that it's put in place as a scum power bonus and not as a necessity to preventing a broken game, and the game WOULD be broken if scum only has a one-shot killing power. Minions investigates one townie; confirms himself as town. Minions investigates another townie; also confirmed as town. Three confirmed town can vote one of themselves as HoH and kill nonthem indefinitely and thus pretty much autowin as long as town trusts all three. If they don't, they can lynch the cop, reveal his result as true, and still pretty much autowin (they can win even when mafia outnumber them!!!).

2) Mod Meta - Voidedmafia's mod meta to this day does not include any roles with unique powers. And while this game had an unexpected twist (nightless + HoH mechanic), I'm not sure that Voided would put anything close to Minions's claimed role in the game. It would not have a clean flip (Two-Shot HoH-specific Amnesiac Cop) and Voided hasn't modded a game with anything but clean flips (even in his weird game!), so I don't think he would post this role.

3) General Setup Speculation - I'm guessing this is an all-vanilla game. The general wave of agreement to Molla's speculation and lack of anyone responding in a weird way sort of confirms this. It is also the reason I want a massclaim; Minions confirmed as town would be incredible if they are actually town, but there's a much higher chance that they are scum and can be confirmed as scum by no other power roles showing up. Scum have demonstrated a distinct lack of killing power other than the JRBD kill so I'm not really too concerned about them dying.

4) Play issues - I don't buy that Minions didn't use cop powers on the first two days because it was "obvious" who was scummy; the first day it was fucking obvious Gnomeo was probably going to get lynched and Desperado wasn't on their radar so he would have been a fucking fantastic investigation. I know that one of the heads of Minions has a tendency to claim confirmable power roles as scum to buy more time, so the claim fits his scum playstyle completely and the chances of him rolling this specific role are slim slim slim.

I'm sold. Every point is A+.

(though technically, I was the first person to suggest this was an all Vanilla game

[Minions]

I am now lost on who is actually town now.

I point to something the mod will confirm, and several of you instantly call it a lie and fear it being proven... Wow.

[Desperado]

So why did you spend so much time in 1137 considering how their claim could be legit?

And while you're at it, why are you so preoccupied with scum power? I could quote all of the references to it your ISO if you want, but I bet it's almost a dozen distinct references now.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If you wrote them up, why not post them?

I wanted to do a re-read and update them so held out on them. But after it looked as if I would get nominated, I wanted everyone to know where I was at and what my reads were so I decided to just post what I had. I'll update it this weekend though.

In any case, Tammy is quite transparent when she is town.

Where are Tammy's transparent posts?

The one that most caught my eye was this:

I'm heading to bed, but I'll look at that game you posted tomorrow after work. Nacho has his suspicions on Desperado, but I'll let him explain it if he's got it fully formed.

I understand the position on RBD because that was my exact reaction. When nacho and I were talking about the game at the very start, I was hesitant to call them town even though I wanted to because I would expect him to make a proposition like that as either alignment. I don't know what he's like with regards to teammates though. It was one of the things that I liked about Blackberry's reads list mid game because he showed some caution and it had matched up to my early weariness. I think by about that point that they had pretty much solidified themselves as town though.

If you were scum, there were several things on here that she would have to lie about:
a) That she had the same reaction to JRBD as me.
b) That you and she were talking about that at the start of the game.
c) A small summary of your conversation (that she expected them to make posts like that as either alignment and hence her (Tammy's) hesitancy.

It doesn't seem like she was referring to a fabricated discussion. There would be no need to elaborate on and explain it either. I didn't buy that it was a lie that she made up and kept referring to it as though it was true when there was no reason to think up an imaginary discussion that you guys had as a hydra and talk to me about what was discussed.

Your reads at the beginning of day 1 match up with this as you had kept JRBD as town out of respect for their scumgame. I guess there is the possibility that you two had discussed this as scum and decided that you would pretend to be paranoid and Tammy was referring to

that

discussion. I evaluated both possibilities and found that the town one was overwhelmingly more likely.

Also, her FOS on me saying that she was waiting for something from me, and then pushing hard when that thing (meta-reads) didn't come. It gave me the impression that she was trying to sort me out. I find it rather unlikely that she would fake it as scum just based on the genuine nature of the exchange, the initially calling me town but being a little wary, and then coming out hard. I'd be pretty amazed if she did that as scum.

Her read on Desperado looks to be very genuine and it mirrored a lot of my own read on him.

What do you think of her push on Minions?

Need to re-read. Will get to this when I post my analysis.

Toogeloo’s latest posts have me suspecting him for reasons I can’t put into words very well. I felt that his posts were too smooth and something seems off. I trust BBMolla’s opinion on it that he is probably town because I am certain Molla is town and correct on most reads and in any case, I can’t really explain what it is I found off.

I didn't really expect you to say something like this. Toogeloo's posts are too smooth...?

By "too smooth," I meant that I meant somewhat smug and that I can't gauge his emotions from his posts. For someone like Tammy or BBMolla, it is really obvious what they are thinking and what they are feeling because of the way they speak. Toogeloo seemed as though he wasn't speaking his mind. I'll check his meta for his general tone when town and scum and get back to that.

Disagrees with reveal since it should be obvious. Points out that we can always question the HoH the next day. Agrees with KBW policy lynch. Proposes using FOSes as votes. Questions townread on Minion.
FOSses Minion for keeping his vote on the same random person saying that that is incredible trust to give to a random person so early in the game. Post 35 is scummy. 37 is somewhat townish.
Says that HoH needs to make a decision for the good of the town, not what town wants. Is afraid that the town is open to being influenced. Supports the HoH choosing whoever the HoH wants.
Bulbazak’s motivation for doing this is likely because he feels that he is not persuasive enough to drive lynches. If this is the case based on his meta, it makes sense as town. If he has usually got the lynches that he wants as town, then he is likely scum in this game.
Don’t like 56 where he says that RBD tends to be like that and is town.
206 is slightly scummy where he says that “Keeping your vote for HoH on a person you randomly selected after you realized your mistake is not.”
FOSses Gnomeo for using the same format for the reads list.

I expected you to have a stronger Bulbascum case, considering your conviction earlier. Where is it?

It was in the posts where I made a Bulbascum case. 682, 683, 688.

Imperium, if you're pretty sure those two are scum, feel free to put them up. I have an itching feeling KBW is scum.

Minions (Generic head), have you heard of mafia being played on a magic the gathering fan site?

Don't like this post. It is too noncommittal. Why not present your opinion instead of just saying "if you are okay with this, feel free to put them up?"

I thought you had a good townread on Titus...? "Noncommittal" is not that big of a deal.

It isn't but the post still struck me as scummy. It seemed as though she wanted me lynched without taking any of the responsibility for it. But her follow-up cleared my concerns.

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 3.09:

Titus - Bulbazak
Imperium - Titus, RachMarie, minions, Toogeloo (L-2)
BBmolla - Desp, Toasty

Not Voting - BBmolla, f-16, keyblade, Imperium

With 11 alive it takes 6 to elect an HoH. Currently Imperium will be nominated as the next HoH, as they have the most votes.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-02 12:06:45) or by 11:05 AM on October 2nd, 2013.

Keybladewielder is always V/LA Wednesday through Saturday.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I just realized: the whole thing with the L-1 HoH kill makes no sense. If the HoH is nominated by plurality votes, then we can simply choose to wait for the deadline every time and there would never be a kill.

[Imperium]

What's your opinion on Minions, F-16?

[Minions]

Imperium. All I am asking is for one night to prove my power.

Pick any two other people you like, you can even tell me who you want me to investigate.

If the mod doesn't being you a result whoever is HoH the next day nominated me and you all vote for me for lying.

What you got to lose?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What's your opinion on Minions, F-16?

I think it unlikely that scum would fake-claim it. Even if they did, we could still let him confirm someone and then lynch him. That way, in the case that he is town, we would have a confirmed townie.

I think Voided can come up with some pretty non-clean flips like mistrusted vanilla townie (aka miller) so I am not sold on that.

I agree that the game could be broken if they are what they say they are and the mafia don't have any more kills. But it is also likely that the mafia have a few more kills and they are saving the kills for later.

So, I am not sure. Can you link the games where you saw the Minions claiming PRs to avoid being lynched?

[Bulbazak]

Taste that sweet scum desperate need for survival.

Did you ignore Minions's cop claim...?

No, I just don't believe it. Or at the very least, I don't believe that it's town aligned. I still don't like the timing of their claim, which happened around the point people started suspecting them a lot. It was essentially, "Don't lynch me. See how useful I am!".

As for the all vanilla theory, I think I remember someone claiming something about wagon distribution (who was on what wagons), but I don't have the time or the will to look for it right now.

[Toogeloo]

So why did you spend so much time in 1137 considering how their claim could be legit?

I never said it was legit, I said it could be at least confirmed in some way provided a multitude of circumstances don't happen. I like Nacho's points, and find myself siding with his awesome kool-aid flavor.

That being said, I hardly think we are going to evict Minions without him at least attempting to prove himself legit, especially with general interest in Toasty, F-16, and you still. Imperium should probably put up 2 of those 3, and empahsize who he wants out and who he wants scanned. We can deal with Minions tomorrow.

[ToastyToast]

Toasty also fits what I would imagine the scum trying to fit into town the most. He's abiding the consensus of town, trying to look active, and bussing the dead weight to look spot on.

I'm trying to look active?

hate to break it to you, but I'm actually being very inactive
i'm "abiding" to the consensus of town because the town's consensus is correct at this point.

[BBmolla]

Nacho have Minions use his ability on me and you so we can lynch everyone but us and autowin.