A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Shadoweh]

It will probably sound stupid but I thought Goat peoples were talking about voting Amrun in their post. <_< You can call it a general agreement with the possibility of scumminess.

[macmollie]

Nacho, before I tell you who I think is a 'notable presense' can you tell me why it's actually relevant to anything? If you're questioning my alignment I would hope you'd ask something more relevant then who I think the cool people are.

It's the kind of question I'd gladly answer as scum because it doesn't mean anything

.

I found this funny cos even tho your answer was ladled in smoky screen soup, you still answered.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 1, Vc 40

PrideandJoy (1) -

Amrun

ooba (10) -

quadz08, PrideandJoy, AGar, Shadoweh, Tierce, Tammy, StupendousMan, Goat on a Raft, Syryana, Garruk Relentless

Thor665 (6) -

elleheathen, kanyeknowsbest, Benmage, Cephrir, Nautilius, macmollie

Goat on a Raft (1) -

displaced

Zdenek (1) -

Messiah Complex

Garruk Relentless (2) -

SafetyDance, ooba

Amrun (2) -

Thor665, Zdenek

Not voting (1)-

Alfred Borden

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 1st of October at 17:05 EDT
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-10-01 17:05:01)
  
• Thor and ooba are V/la

[Alfred Borden]

My Amrun townread was definitely hurt by her V/LA period.
She hasn't had the opportunity to show the sustained energy which was supposed to help me tell the difference between Amrun Town / Scum.

[Shadoweh]

Uh huh. So Mr. Mollie how's that actually convincing reasons to vote the Soylent Goats going? I guess you just forgot about them because you voted Thor? I know it was a forgettable and uselessly futile vote but I did ask for a sales pitch. No one wants to buy your shady products. :<

[Syryana]

Vote: Thor665

?????

[Nautilius]

No.

Your last post was pretty cool!

Nacho, before I tell you who I think is a 'notable presense' can you tell me why it's actually relevant to anything? If you're questioning my alignment I would hope you'd ask something more relevant then who I think the cool people are. It's the kind of question I'd gladly answer as scum because it doesn't mean anything.

I'm questioning your alignment because you still haven't done shit; you know this. I'm asking you for the cool people for a different reason! ^.^

Vote: Thor665

?????

His votes suck, the ooba wagon is horrible.

[Syryana]

His votes suck, the ooba wagon is horrible.

What votes?
Why do they suck?
Why is the ooba wagon horrible?

[Nautilius]

Unvote: Benmage
Vote: Alfred

And caught up.

Unvote: Andrew
Vote: Amrun

ooba wagon sucks because ooba is town.

[kanyeknowsbest]

It's a bit of both. There's the fact that it seems like bullshit, which is scummy, and there's the fact that you're being difficult which is policy.

which is the bullshit part?

[ooba]

@Mage: I have a couple of strong scum reads and id really like to see them lynched. Not feeling Thor-scum - and it doesnt just boil down to the miller claim.

@Alfred: Because im town.

Tammy makes a good point about safety disappearing. Id be happier about my read if he continued to contribute.

[Tammy]

No.

Your last post was pretty cool!

All of my posts are pretty cool. Don't h8

[Tammy]

@Tammy

- Did Thor's responses give you any better insight about him at all?

No. Thor hasn't done anything that I don't believe he could conceivably do as either alignment. I like his shift in read on Alfred. The reasoning for it is something that I would expect and have seen him do as town. Some of other people's strong town reads on Thor makes me wonder about their alignment and think that maybe Thor could be town. Basically Thor is behaving as Thor, and I don't know how to really define scum!Thor from town!Thor except in maybe some particular situations that haven't happened yet.

[Tammy]

I could have written half of Tierce's Post 1306. In fact several posts she's made is reflecting how I feel this game up til this point and continues to make me feel better about her alignment. TET

[Messiah Complex]

Best laid plans of mice and men oft go astray. Life reared its ugly head and shits been keeping me offline. I am now faced with plenty of time because I am between jobs for about a week. Thanks for the patience in getting this Garruk case up.

Because we're us:

Vote: Garruk Relentless

Oh wait. Not this game. See, in this game, we're cursed and take 2 less than the majority to be lynched. So, instead.

Unvote

so you take 11 to lynch

and yet this scares you away from voting yourself?

vote Garruk

Those RVS wagons pile up fast. It can be hard to unvote during a fast-paced wagon. And it would just be sad to be part of your own demise, now wouldn't it?

This exchange didn't sit well with me. I felt the question from MM was a fair one, and feel like Garruk just kinda made a joke about it instead of taking it seriously. 11 votes would be needed to get him lynched. Was he so afraid of coming off scummy in the beginning of the game that he had to unvote like that? If he were that fearful why even self-vote in the first place.

See, in this game, we're cursed and take 2 less than the majority to be lynched.

Hey, Amrun, you're misrepping us a little--we did random vote Goat on a Raft like three posts later. And you can hardly expect us to not be a bit self-vote shy when we have a super-hated modifier.

This post comes off as genuine, and when considering our own restriction, we believe Thor about his miller claim.

How many times are you going to mention you have that super hated modifier?

See, I actually LIKE this random wagon.

VOTE: Eleeheathen

I really didn't like this vote, especially when he called it a random wagon. You do sort of address that comment here:

I liked the flavor reasoning behind the elle wagon. I guess calling it a random wagon is a bit of a misnomer, sure, but the "wight" slip seemed genuine to me. I know faraday assigned roles before alignments, but wights is a perfectly fine scum flavoring--they are in direct opposition to the Realm, and as a sort of zombie-analogue, anyone can really be one, IIRC.

But you also just confuse your point at the same time. You seem to be vilifying Elle for her wight comment, but at the same time are considering it to be an extremely valid point, and that anyone who has read the books/seen the show could possibly come to the same conclusion. Hell, I think that Desp and I had a very similar conversation when we first signed up for the game.

Garruk Relentless, do you still think your vote is in the right place?

At the moment, yes probably. She hasn't redeemed herself in our eyes at all--I mean, the only relevant action has been outing Thor's name, which is like, null at best, but anti-town at worst. If I were the speculating type, I'd be speculating that elle is part of the mafia and they know they have a traitor out there.

Also, people were jumping to claim it being a scum slip that the scum team were made up of wights, which is impossible. Faraday picks roles first in upicks. Then he picks alignments. A wight could be town, while Rob Stark could be scum.

Correct me if I'm wrong--it's been a year or two since I read the novels last--but the wights are essentially zombies, no? Is there not a point where Jon kills a dude and he literally comes back as a wight minutes later? The point being that "Wights" is perfect scum flavor in a UPick game--they look like their character's likeness simply because they are literally them, just frozen-zombie them.

Here you again stand behind your vote in one part, and show why your vote is based off of faulty info in the other. If wights would be perfect for a game like this, why would one person be scum for throwing that out there for a potential scum team? If it does exist, and she is one of them, do you think that she would really fuck up that big to use the word in a post? By the way, you voted for Elle in post #138, and had it parked there until #622. Just saying.

VOTE: Cephrir

I'm sheeping you, SyrGod. Im going to defer to you when SSK asks me why were lynching Ceph though, k?

BTW I have Alfred and Cephrir as like completely null at the moment. Don't do anything scummy, or I might actually go all tempo on your ass Syryana.

This seems like another vote that you are making, yet putting the reasoning on someone else. It would be nice to see a vote that you actually believe in and could put some weight behind. The way you have played so far just looks like you are trying to avoid culpability if things didn't turn out the way they were intended.

I apologize for my/our "lack of scumhunting", this game has kinda been boring me--the content in this game is kinda dense, which intimidates me. Lots of unfamiliar faces too. If it can help you guys, I can give a 'reads' list like others if it's wished, but meh.

You are bored and intimidated by the dense content and unfamiliar faces. You can contribute if we ask you nicely, but meh. Wonderful post.

FINALLY got to hash stuff out with SSK last night. He said he'd post later today, so I'll just do some cliff notes at the moment.

-I didn't like macmollie in Castle and I don't like her here, I think it's a matter of personality/style clashing, though, so I'm defering to SSK for now. SSK has a VERY slight scum leaning on her, due to her heavy push on someone who we consider one of the strongest townreads.

Having the view of MM that we do, using your own logic would explain why you are on my list at least.

I feel like you jumped on a slip that wasn't a slip, acknowledged how the concept is fully possible and would even make a hell of a lot of sense. Your slot views one of our agreed upon reads as scummy. Repeatedly mentioned your role restriction. And your votes have been garbage and it doesn't seem like a single one of them is a vote that you actually believe in.

[Messiah Complex]

Forgot to sign that one.

-FF

[Tammy]

WAAAAAAIT A MINUTE!!!

I see that as valid logic why Tierce looks scummy.

thor since when have you ever thought any of my logic was valid? name 1 other time in a game that you ever thought that something I said was valid or had anything to do with logic much less have any merit to it? in fact that is the whole reason as to why you always want to pl me and why we fight it is cos you say you can never understand a single thing I say. you're scum aren't you? oh god that is why you have been so civil isn't it?

VOTE: thor

no wonder the game is feeling so off there is a rotten apple trying to worm their way into town's core.

omg. wow. I think you're more paranoid than I am...though my paranoia doesn't kick in usually until day 3 or so. But what you need is a touch stone. Though you're a hydra, so you should have some of that, but I get it. But sometimes we just need something solid to believe in. I'm town; let's try to make sense of this shit.

[Tammy]

Alfred Bordempire - I think I remember you saying that he was reacting much like he did as town in The Wire. I just read back through his play there last night as well as a couple of his other recent town games, and are you sure about that?

Well, I reread it again just now + compared it to his play in that game mollie linked. As scum, he just seems really awkward/forced and doesn't really know what to say when confronted with suspicion. The best example of that is #1115 in that game where he just kinda awkwardly tries to shrug off Majiffy's suspicion of him. In The Wire, he stood his ground and confidently addressed what people were saying about him (this post being a really good example). Take a look at how he responds to the ten scums related suspicion brought up against him here -- he addresses it point-blank, sounds completely comfortable in his responses and is not afraid to call people on what he sees as bullshit. I'll look over more games of his when/if I get some time, but I think he's a bad wagon.

But please read the post in which I talk about his reads posts stuff and look at the fact that he's prod dodging flaking and tell me what you think. Like I really hoped that you'd catch that post I caught when you read the wire but you didn't and so I'm pretty bummed out.

[Tammy]

Okay so the reading the Goat as scum because CDB wasn't as a strong scum reader as Red Wedding is unfair. His play here is reminiscent of his play in The Wire where he didn't have really strong scum reads immediately and wasn't even a strong presence until day two and even then it was inconsistent, so using one game against them is pretty bunk. Plus, that whole line about eating humble pie or whatever read really town.

[Tammy]

Eh, Goat on a Raft is still scum, but that's not going anywhere.

I just looked at this:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5342787

Typical scum ISO - cast suspicion willy-nilly and then lurk and do nothing, so let's try this.

Vote: Amrun

i think it's a site-wide issue though

[Thor665]

Thor: "putting it succinctly" requires something to be "put". His actual vote, sure, it's short. His explanations are in big piles of Thorness, most of which are over this head's personal can-I-be-arsed-to-read-it post length.

Welcome to my life.
I do love how apparently in the online forum environment 'reading' is considered a hassle though.

Benmage actually seems to be playing worse than Mollie in this game.
That is sad.

Why are you voting Amrun?

Overreactive defensiveness of me to Benmage considering an otherwise sedate playstyle (that she was called on and defended as what she was doing in this game).
Pair that up with getting really annoyed when I asked her about it.

Why *aren't* you voting Amrun?

Gah, I never condensed my fucking posts.

I loathe when that happens.

Ok I'm gonna break this one down because somewhere we've had a communication breakdown. (Paraphrasing)

Post #1252 I say "Thor, you don't like Ooba-lynch. I don't like Amrun/Ceph for D1 lynchbait (because that's what I feel they are, just lynchbait and bad wagons) so what else ya got."
Post #1261/1262 (double post whee!) I lay out my case against Ooba for someone else.
Post #1269 you question "lynchbait" and then say you find Amrun/Ceph objectively worse than Ooba.
Post #1321 I say I got townleanings on both of them, but that was during a 24h 46 page reading binge so I'd re-read them (I didn't get to Amrun last night, instead had personal affairs to tend to).
Post #1355 I ask you answer my question of other options in #1252
Post #1378 is quoted above.

(1.)

- You never actually gave me anything else to work with. Clearly we're not going to agree on D1 wagons here, which happens, but to say you answered my question when you functionally didn't and then go on the offensive is really just off kilter here.

(2.)

- You also never actually asked me to defend my position, although had you, you should have realized I had already entrenched my Ooba read several posts beforehand to gather some steam on that wagon.

I agree with your timeline.

1. Pot meet kettle? Yeah, i never gave an alternate and I *told you* why I didn't. You know who else didn't offer a compromise? You didn't offer one for me...but you *did* say you'd re-look at my primes, so me then waiting to see where you fell on them is pretty ruddy normal I'm pretty sure. Heck, you still haven't done my primary yet. I also ent on the offensive because you did ask me for something that I had *literally responded to*. Now, go read me in iso with Mollie, and watch that mess, and then be aware of why I'm annoyed that apparently no one reads what I write and then wants to know why I haven't answered things I have answered. I'll admit maybe you got worse than you deserved because at least there is vague justification for your point - but I did answer your question, just not the way you wanted me too.

2. I'm not actually sure what point you are making here. I'll agree that I didn't ask you for your case on Ooba...? I'm not sure the relevance of this point and do not believe I've been talking about it, so if you have then clearly this is part of our disconnect.

His votes suck, the ooba wagon is horrible.

I agree that the Ooba wagon is horrible.
So...which counterwagon should I be supporting then? The one on me? The one I openly disagree with on Stupendous? The kinda mushy Messiah one? Or should I start a wagon I like?
Oh, and look, you dislike me for doing that too.
Meh.
Derp tell is derpy.

[ooba]

Messiah, you arent voting Garruk after that post?

[ooba]

I agree that the Ooba wagon is horrible.
So...which counterwagon should I be supporting then? The one on me? The one I openly disagree with on Stupendous? The kinda mushy Messiah one? Or should I start a wagon I like?

What do you mean 'Messiah' one - there isnt a vote on him? What about Garruk?

[Garruk Relentless]

Hi! Just acknowledging that I saw the formerfish case. However, I am going to sleep, will respond to it tonight. Maybe. I might just dick around in FTL again
In any case, I am hopefully leaving you in the competent hands of my comrade, Relentless(see, get it? I'm the Veil Cursed!).

[AGar]

1. Pot meet kettle? Yeah, i never gave an alternate and I *told you* why I didn't. You know who else didn't offer a compromise? You didn't offer one for me...but you *did* say you'd re-look at my primes, so me then waiting to see where you fell on them is pretty ruddy normal I'm pretty sure. Heck, you still haven't done my primary yet. I also ent on the offensive because you did ask me for something that I had *literally responded to*. Now, go read me in iso with Mollie, and watch that mess, and then be aware of why I'm annoyed that apparently no one reads what I write and then wants to know why I haven't answered things I have answered. I'll admit maybe you got worse than you deserved because at least there is vague justification for your point - but I did answer your question, just not the way you wanted me too.

Ok this is the main communication breakdown. I didn't take your post as asking me for an alternate, instead rather asking me to consider Amrun/Ceph (I got to the Amrun read... I'm eh about her. The V/LA makes it hard because there isn't much to work with. And Ceph has given me a big ol' "eh" feeling too with his recent posts. I could go either way on them right now). But uh, my first real post of the game said I'd also be happy lynching macmollie.

I'd really like PnJ to come back, because I liked what I saw early.
Displaced is a fair candidate for dying, between him and PB I have yet to see one concrete, justified read in the course of 50-something pages.

But the Ooba wagon is still best wagon.