Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 4.4

[6] Nachomamma8 (zMuffinMan, Ghostlin, TiphaineDeath, Andrius, Mac, waynegg)
[2] Aj The Epic (Nachomamma8, Faster Than Light)
[1] Antihero (notscience)
[1] Faster Than Light (Desperado)

[4] Not Voting (Aj The Epic, BROseidon, Antihero, Trust Fund)

With 14 alive, it is 8 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-06 23:00:00)

TiphaineDeath was prodded.

[Ghostlin]

I actually expected the Kool-Aid man, but Randy Savage works.

[borkjerfkin]

I feel like Randy did it better

Also booze

[zMuffinMan]

mm when i suggested that my thinking was that even if town does lynch aj->desp->bro first, if, say, bro flips town, nacho then has to backpedal hard on his town reads all the way to the endgame when the seeds of doubt about his slot have already been sown.

the problem i realised after i suggested that is that if he's a lone goon on an otherwise PR-heavy scum team, then he's just going to ride the logic that scum are all PRs to victory, which makes me kind of sad because i can see players like MS being convinced by him :/

[BROseidon]

Scum having all PRs with a Vanilla cop in play would be, like, shit-tier design, especially given how limited the town-power we have claimed at this point is.

Every town PR claim has been either not particularly implicitly super-powerful (IC), gated in some way (Anti's cop that goes away after 2 innocents, Wayne's 2-shot), or both (FTL's non-consecutive modifier, Mac's neighborizer, Mastin's whole role).

We also have 4 VT flips, and there are probably more VTs in play. No way scum is 5 PRs vs. that. That seems highly implausible.

[Nachomamma8]

If you want a claim out of me, get town to run me up to L-1.

Your plan is bad and you should feel bad.

Why won't you claim PR/Not-PR? That takes away your previous concern, doesn't it?

FTL's role doesn't necessarily clear them.

No, but play does.

Mason ability which is confirmed Town to another player, chat abilities at night and essentially what amounts to Innocent Child when Mastin dies. The only other player with a permanent sustained ability is notscience, and he's an Innocent Child, and this hasn't helped his utility much beyond PoE/Town vote when/where we need it.

Two Masons, one innocent child, two innocent investigations plus a third confirmed town, then two more confirmed town investigations and a third confirmed town is 9 confirmed town in three nights. Add a two-shot vig and scum possibly have to deal with 10 confirmed town. (10/21 or hell even 7/21) is pretty fucking difficult to deal with, add a bit of limited power, and sure it makes sense to have a stacked scumteam. Also, there are chances that mutley was redirected into a bulletproof to set up for AJ claim (I don't think scum would leave mutley unblocked for a second night or even unmessed with).

You went three game Days without being more flaky than a Grands biscuit and and now you've got the fucking unmitigated gall to ask me why I want you dead more than AJ, who I feel while scum, could possibly be just worse than you at this.

And yet despite all of this I somehow have plenty plenty plenty of posts, I did end up voting and pushing rach while defending andy despite a thousand reasons not to, made no real reason to save mala the next day and instead had fun helping to lynch her to! This means that my play somehow consisted of letting scumbuddies die around me without making an effort to take a particular portion of cred from their deaths or making a particular effort to save them, which is pretty stupid.

[BROseidon]

Why won't you claim PR/Not-PR? That takes away your previous concern, doesn't it?

A vanilla claim would further steer scum away from me.

The claiming this game has been aggressive as and I'm generally not a fan. I don't see why we've been giving scum so much information for free.

[Nachomamma8]

So you think scum is going to shoot you at night because they think you're a PR?

[Nachomamma8]

You think they are going to be "oh, BRO is totally a PR and not lynchable as shit" and then shoot the fuck out of you without knowing for sure?

[zMuffinMan]

it makes sense to have a stacked scumteam.

agreed. and given the two flips so far, i'd say they're already fairly stacked. i can imagine 3, perhaps 4 PRs to combat town power, but 5 just seems overkill.

for example, the only reason the investigations are near confirmed town is because it's unlikely scum has a godfather given the nature of the inquisitor role and the nature of RM's role. if not for the RM flip, the investigations would hardly be confirmed anything.

besides, what you're suggesting (scum team being full PRs) only makes town power

even stronger

because that would mean every VT result is confirmed town. if we assume that VT results aren't confirmed town because goons are possible, that significantly weakens your theory about how many confirmed town there could be.

Also, there are chances that mutley was redirected into a bulletproof to set up for AJ claim

this seems rather derpy. it's a very low chance that mutley just happened to be redirected to the player he targeted anyway instead of, say, redirecting to any strong town player and avoiding having to claim BP altogether.

[Nachomamma8]

mm when i suggested that my thinking was that even if town does lynch aj->desp->bro first, if, say, bro flips town, nacho then has to backpedal hard on his town reads all the way to the endgame when the seeds of doubt about his slot have already been sown.

which one of the sacred trinity will flip town?

[Nachomamma8]

besides, what you're suggesting (scum team being full PRs) only makes town power even stronger because that would mean every VT result is confirmed town. if we assume that VT results aren't confirmed town because goons are possible, that significantly weakens your theory about how many confirmed town there could be.

vt results aren't confirmed because goons brings the innocent club from 10 to 7.
we wouldn't know about scumteam composition until the game's over, however

this seems rather derpy. it's a very low chance that mutley just happened to be redirected to the player he targeted anyway instead of, say, redirecting to any strong town player and avoiding having to claim BP altogether.

brainstorming occasionally produces retarded results

[Ghostlin]

And yet despite all of this I somehow have plenty plenty plenty of posts, I did end up voting and pushing rach while defending andy despite a thousand reasons not to, made no real reason to save mala the next day and instead had fun helping to lynch her to! This means that my play somehow consisted of letting scumbuddies die around me without making an effort to take a particular portion of cred from their deaths or making a particular effort to save them, which is pretty stupid.

You just did what you claimed that you didn't just do in this post. In even making the argument you were on the Mala/Rach wagons and defending Andrius, you just claimed your portion of the cred.

That's self-referential to the point of meta, you realize. Also, WIFOM. Neither Rach or Mala were very strong to begin with.

[zMuffinMan]

it should also be noted that the amount of people suspecting AJ prior to the BP claim was so low that it's not even funny, so any idea that they planned a BP claim is sorta absurd. i am pretty sure i was like the only one calling AJ scum D1, and maybe 2 or 3 others started giving the idea some thought D2.

which one of the sacred trinity will flip town?

dunno. thinking bro is the most likely of the three atm. mostly because he seems to give more of a fuck than the other two, and i can see scum apathy kicking in about now when the game is mostly figured out.

vt results aren't confirmed because goons brings the innocent club from 10 to 7

yeah, well, even if this were true, that's the fault of the scum team for shooting the non-confirmed players, isn't it?

i don't think there are that many "confirmed" players, though. IC, masons, maybe 2-shot vig. the rest are iffy at best prior to town knowing a little more about the setup through flips. and the flipped scum roles so far seem to indicate that scum has a lot of power to counter town (redirection, roleblocking and the possibility of passives that interfere with town roles in some way)

[Ghostlin]

Two Masons, one innocent child, two innocent investigations plus a third confirmed town, then two more confirmed town investigations and a third confirmed town is 9 confirmed town in three nights. Add a two-shot vig and scum possibly have to deal with 10 confirmed town. (10/21 or hell even 7/21) is pretty fucking difficult to deal with, add a bit of limited power, and sure it makes sense to have a stacked scumteam. Also, there are chances that mutley was redirected into a bulletproof to set up for AJ claim (I don't think scum would leave mutley unblocked for a second night or even unmessed with).

Muffin's 4584 covers this. I personally believe there's at least one Goon in this game.

[zMuffinMan]

ebwop: actually, it's not just the possibility that RM's role interfered with town roles in some way. RM's role

did

interfere with town roles in some way. we just aren't sure how at the moment.

[BROseidon]

You think they are going to be "oh, BRO is totally a PR and not lynchable as shit" and then shoot the fuck out of you without knowing for sure?

Why give them certainty in this instead of giving them the option to choose wrong?

[waynegg]

To have me claim so that FTL could see if I'd lie about whether I'm vanilla when there's a vanilla cop in play.

You sure it's not a scum bussing plan that was hatched in your QT and that there was some sort of disagreement with?

And how stupid do you think I fucking am if the answer to the first question is Yes?

Scum never say anything like that

@Andy

You've mentioned the bane of playing with no avatar a couple of times and I'm pretty sure no one has asked you about that. Why no avatar?

And this is has to do with this game...?

Apparently. This is the only game I'm playing with him

I feel like Randy did it better

Also booze

Grr! I can't believe I missed the Randy Savage!

I feel like Randy did it better

Also booze

ebwop: actually, it's not just the possibility that RM's role interfered with town roles in some way. RM's role

did

interfere with town roles in some way. we just aren't sure how at the moment.

Umm...she was lynched day one...you have some explaining to do because there's been no indication she was able to do anything.

[BROseidon]

You sure it's not a scum bussing plan that was hatched in your QT and that there was some sort of disagreement with?

That would require me to be scum.

So yeah, pretty sure

[waynegg]

At least I know you're reading

[BROseidon]

I'm like 50% following the thread right now, since I'm watching League worlds and should also be doing the work that I went V/LA to get done >.>

[zMuffinMan]

you have some explaining to do because there's been no indication she was able to do anything.

... no.

[zMuffinMan]

if you really need to know how i know details about RM's role, it's because i'm psychic. i predict her role is one that can assign passive abilities to other players. the crystal ball told me so.

[waynegg]

On day one. Before there was a night phase. Even though her flip said nothing to indicate she could use her power during a day phase.

No, you have plenty to explain.

[zMuffinMan]

.................................................

what the fuck are you on about?