A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Benmage]

Now where have I said, that the leading evolution of a player his their ability to rescind a heavy tunnel, when they finally realize the person they're tunneling on is town.
-Meh here works...

Tammy hit that epiphany... but has yet to evolve.

[Benmage]

No Sdance,

leave it on thor.

Might as well policy the Miller, than the town JoAt.

[Benmage]

Gods I hope you flip scum because if this is your town game, or if this is what you think mafia is, I'm just going to scream.

Have you attempted to breakdown what he's doing as logical scum play?

Town have the whimsical don't give a fuck attitude.

He couldn't be more town, ITS FUCKING HILARIOUS.

Seriously, a NO lynch Is better than lynching obvtown JoAT.

[Tierce]

No, SafetyDance. The issue is *you never explained the reads on that list*. It's a list with a lot of scumreads and a lot of unexplained stuff that you never went over. Why are you criticizing Tammy without taking a stance on what it means about her alignment?

The point is that you need to show your work. No one is a mind reader, so if you're being accused of stuff that makes sense with what you have graced us with--that reads list and a hop on a policy lynch with no other contribution--and you don't bother to refute it with actual FACTS like explaining your reads, no one is forced to believe you. Go ahead. Explain those reads, explain why you thought a policy lynch was the way to go, and why you have not been contributing until today.

And your "I told you so" is wrong, young grasshopper. If you're Town and get lynched, now we can use your role for setup analysis.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 1, Vc 48

PrideandJoy (1) -

Amrun

ooba (4) -

PrideandJoy, AGar, StupendousMan, Goat on a Raft

Thor665 (5) -

elleheathen, kanyeknowsbest, Benmage, SafetyDance, Zdenek

Amrun (1) -

Thor665

SafetyDance (12) -

Alfred Borden, Syryana, Garruk Relentless, Cephrir, Tammy, Shadoweh, displaced, Tierce, Nautilius, ooba, Messiah Complex, quadz08

Not voting (1)-

macmollie

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 1st of October at 17:05 EDT
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-10-01 17:05:01)
  
• Thor665 is V/la.

[Benmage]

Tierce... how haven't you changed vote yet..

[Tierce]

UNVOTE: SafetyDance

Messieurs Borden, a moment of your time, if you please.

Benmage, I'm phone posting. The more I have to PEdit the slower I get.

[ooba]

Have you attempted to breakdown what he's doing as logical scum play?

Not logical scum play but posts in Page 65 read as emotional scum going "This is what you're lynching me for?". Blaming "meta" and the "Policy lynch" reply to quads.

[Benmage]

People never agree with me in not dragging days out... Lets see if we can fix this abysmal course of actions with 18 hours to go.

GOODLUCK TOWN. People will have real life excuses, and scum can hide amongst those.

THOR LYNCH is still a GO! (we also don't waste any more claims here, FYI)

Thor case:

There's way more to Thor, than Policy Lynching him for Miller.

A)Miller claim
B) His auto-town assertion in his claim
C) His bullSmurfing well into the game about his claim verse being open and truth full.. we're the uniformed, we cant be playing games.
D) His repetitive deflection
E) Fence-sitting/lining up lynches.

Its a great D1 lynch if you ask me. Wayyy to many question marks surrounding that slot.

F)The continual downplaying of the shit he did to not make it look as scummy as it is.

[Benmage]

Have you attempted to breakdown what he's doing as logical scum play?

Not logical scum play but posts in Page 65 read as emotional scum going "This is what you're lynching me for?". Blaming "meta" and the "Policy lynch" reply to quads.

His complete mockery of the situation is towntelling as fuck.

[Alfred Borden]

Hey, Empire checking in, got back from dinner not too long ago and gotta catch up on the last few pages.

[Garruk Relentless]

I'd move back to ooba in a heartbeat.

I think the SD claim is legit. And town via modwifom.

UNVOTE:

I'm willing to lynch anyone at this point, though. Time is running out.

[Benmage]

@EMpire

You need to vote Thor STAT.

Tierce has unvoted SDance. (soon to vote Thor)

Tammy will unvote once she evolves a bit more.

Time is of the essence, and they will follow you.

[Benmage]

AHEM Garruk

Thor case!

[kanyeknowsbest]

still happy w. thor lynch. ambivalent towards safetydance. i dont like that he disappeared until he finally had to respond to the wagon on him, and his reaction thus far has been underwhelming.

id also like to remind everyone that roles were created before alignments were assigned so if you are backing off of sd because of his claim id like to hear what about his claim has you backing off.

[SafetyDance]

No, SafetyDance. The issue is *you never explained the reads on that list*. It's a list with a lot of scumreads and a lot of unexplained stuff that you never went over. Why are you criticizing Tammy without taking a stance on what it means about her alignment?

The point is that you need to show your work. No one is a mind reader, so if you're being accused of stuff that makes sense with what you have graced us with--that reads list and a hop on a policy lynch with no other contribution--and you don't bother to refute it with actual FACTS like explaining your reads, no one is forced to believe you. Go ahead. Explain those reads, explain why you thought a policy lynch was the way to go, and why you have not been contributing until today.

And your "I told you so" is wrong, young grasshopper. If you're Town and get lynched, now we can use your role for setup analysis.

No, because its only one person, town only knows 1/23 roles which plays in the hands of scum who know all of there's plus one of town they can kill/manipulate. Still not following there.

And you're the one who's putting too much emphasis into the term scum. Read what I prefaced it with. It was where I was starting off at, 3 days into a game what was already 30+ pages, where I felt each leant too. It was mostly gut, I was mostly me choosing to place a player as either scum or town. And there was no way I was going to go back and start re-finding posts, referencing them, casing every person on there after just finishing reading it all. Ceph's whole doodar about it being bad because it didn't match his is nothing but whimsical arbitrary grandstanding. There was only one scum read there you should have cared about.

Out of Ooba v Thor I chose Thor because of what I referenced plus, failed sarcasm detection aside, I read Benmage as town in his exchange with Thor and him less so. I don't have a definitive read on Ooba.

[Tierce]

still happy w. thor lynch. ambivalent towards safetydance. i dont like that he disappeared until he finally had to respond to the wagon on him, and his reaction thus far has been underwhelming.

id also like to remind everyone that roles were created before alignments were assigned so if you are backing off of sd because of his claim id like to hear what about his claim has you backing off.

Roles may have been modified after alignment assignment, though.

[Garruk Relentless]

My thoughts on the Thor case.
A: Null tell. Millers should always claim D1 in my book.
B: Null tell if no one has claimed miller lately.
C: He played the charade a bit long, but I would have been just a sarcastic towards asking for more claim details, especially towards the people who were doing it.
D: A fair point.
E: Didn't read, can't make judgment.
F: This is a legit point.

Mostly, you forgot G.
G. It's 18 hours til deadline and no lynch is useless.

Still holding out for ooba, but I'll switch before bed if it doesn't get any traction.

[Alfred Borden]

Unvote

Oh my god, I want this guy to be scum so so fucking badly but I just can't bring myself to keep my vote on him. Based on what I know of him, I'll be absolutely fucking floored if he's reacting this way as scum.

Thor's probably the least bad of the major wagons right now since my last talk with 'marble had lessened my scumread on ooba considerably.

Vote: Thor

One of 'marble/myself will be around near deadline, I think, if anything happens.

P-edit: Really kanye? In that one scum game I looked at, this dude pretty much awkwardly clammed up under pressure. The reaction here is like night and day.

[Alfred Borden]

Tammy, if you read this, you need to seriously step away for a bit and calm down. This reminds me exactly of how mad I got at Saki in Xenologue to the point where I ended up not giving a shit about the dude's alignment and that ended up at least partially contributing to the loss there. Regfan went and pointed out every single one of Saki's towntells after it was over and I felt like an idiot (well, to a point).

SafetyDance just flat out isn't scum and I think you'll be able to see that once you go over this recent stuff again.

[Messiah Complex]

Have you attempted to breakdown what he's doing as logical scum play?

Not logical scum play but posts in Page 65 read as emotional scum going "This is what you're lynching me for?". Blaming "meta" and the "Policy lynch" reply to quads.

His complete mockery of the situation is towntelling as fuck.

No it isn't.

P-edit: Really kanye? In that one scum game I looked at, this dude pretty much awkwardly clammed up under pressure. The reaction here is like night and day.

Meek players don't necessarily stay meek. "He clammed up under pressure that one time" doesn't mean he's obvtown now. Look at the content of his reaction and really evaluate your townread.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Tammy, if you read this, you need to seriously step away for a bit and calm down. This reminds me exactly of how mad I got at Saki in Xenologue to the point where I ended up not giving a shit about the dude's alignment and that ended up at least partially contributing to the loss there. Regfan went and pointed out every single one of Saki's towntells after it was over and I felt like an idiot (well, to a point).

SafetyDance just flat out isn't scum and I think you'll be able to see that once you go over this recent stuff again.

???

SD is doing everything he can to survive while depriving the town of as much information as possible <----scum mindset

[Tierce]

Unvote

Oh my god, I want this guy to be scum so so fucking badly but I just can't bring myself to keep my vote on him. Based on what I know of him, I'll be absolutely fucking floored if he's reacting this way as scum.

Thor's probably the least bad of the major wagons right now since my last talk with 'marble had lessened my scumread on ooba considerably.

Vote: Thor

One of 'marble/myself will be around near deadline, I think, if anything happens.

P-edit: Really kanye? In that one scum game I looked at, this dude pretty much awkwardly clammed up under pressure. The reaction here is like night and day.

Same thoughts on the reaction. It's especially the "I told you so" attitude. Why wouldn't he claim a role he thought had a better chance of escaping the lynch? Doesn't make sense, he doesn't seem like the kind of scum player who would do that as an extra layer of WIFOM.

I think Thor is Town--the stuff he's been accused at is the kind of thing he does regardless of alignment. Not voting there unless we need that vote by deadline.

Thoughts on Messiah Complex? 1671 bothers me, he's not looking deeply enough.

[Alfred Borden]

Meek players don't necessarily stay meek. "He clammed up under pressure that one time" doesn't mean he's obvtown now. Look at the content of his reaction and really evaluate your townread.

Except the scum game I looked at (same one mollie linked) happened recently (it began on June 28th). Unless you're going to make the argument that he's improved his scum game to the point where he's able to react like this now as scum, this argument doesn't hold water.

P-edit: Jesus christ, I literally saw this guy get accused of and wagoned for doing the exact same thing as town in The Wire. I townread him correctly there and I'm pretty damn sure I'm right now.

P-editx2: I don't know Tierce, let me think about it for a bit since shit's getting real now.

[Messiah Complex]

Meek players don't necessarily stay meek. "He clammed up under pressure that one time" doesn't mean he's obvtown now. Look at the content of his reaction and really evaluate your townread.

Except the scum game I looked at (same one mollie linked) happened recently (it began on June 28th).

Unless you're going to make the argument that he's improved his scum game to the point where he's able to react like this now as scum,

this argument doesn't hold water.

P-edit: Jesus christ, I literally saw this guy get accused of and wagoned for doing the exact same thing as town in The Wire. I townread him correctly there and I'm pretty damn sure I'm right now.

P-editx2: I don't know Tierce, let me think about it for a bit since shit's getting real now.

If you feel confident enough in calling this a 1 to 1 situation then I have absolutely no issue making the argument that he's approaching the same situation differently with the knowledge of the previous game in mind. He got lynched after clamming up, right?

How am I not looking deeply enough Tierce? I'm looking at SD's content, or lack thereof. He has Syry as uber town and Thor as a policy lynch. He has no read on Ooba, the other main wagon. He has no read on you or Tammy, the two people who orchestrated the push on him just now. How is any of this coming from the mindset of "I'm town and about to die?"

- Des