A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[kanyeknowsbest]

pretty bad vote there amro.

[Amrun]

Err, possibly.

Honestly, I'm p sure you're town, so I'll throw you a bone while I make a mad dash to catch up and probably fail cuz got class soon.

VOTE: garruk

[Thor665]

Unvote: Ooba
Vote: Garruk

I like this better than Ooba simply due to his vote on me.

[Thor665]

@Kanye - so why were you voting me? You've done that thing again where it's like you re-wrote your reads in the space of a few hours.

[Tammy]

roles came before alignments

Incorrect. This is a wrongful assumption in many uPicks.

Characters came before alignment. Role design may have partially come before alignment, but it's even stated in the rules it may have suffered alterations afterwards. Go look at Vi's Maf.Xenologue for an example. There was a Town and a scum version of Soren in case our slot had rolled scum; Vi kept the idea and revealed it in the postgame.

So no, I don't think he's a Town miller in a Faraday game.

And that's a flavor miller, Shadoweh. Very different thing, Faraday likes flavor/vanilla/goon cops. Because that's the kind of role that doesn't get absolutes.

It literally says in the third post of the game that roles came before alignments. This is the third faraday upick I've played in, and he assigned roles first in each one of them and then after assigning alignments tweaked any if necessary for balance.

[kanyeknowsbest]

huh? does it look that way? my reads have been pretty static for the 2nd half of this day.

i was voting you for the reason i initially laid out: kneejerk reaction backed by policy reasons. strip the policy and i had you as an unreadable null. i will claim responsibility however, as i doubt your wagon would have progressed to this point or seemed as viable without that early support from me. i dont know your meta at all but i at the very least agree with amrun, your posting over the last page or two seems pretty town + also not fake.

[Tammy]

Well you're voting him so I would hope you think so! I'm going to sleep and won't be back likely, but I did say something about choo choo trains. I really hope someone comes up with something better then he miller'd though cause he'll probably have other role powers to go with it?

##Vote: Thor

honk honk

This is probably true. My partner was a miller who also had a limited heal ability.

[ooba]

"anyone feel alright about a last minute swing onto garruk?" YESS!!!

Unvote. Vote: Garruk

[ooba]

Kanye - I wish I had your charisma.

Also people have said this before - but Tierce tried too hard to justify her Thor vote.

[Tammy]

I think Thor and SD are town. Thor is a stronger townread than SD, though. So I would only vote SD at deadline, but I still like the ooba wagon. Thor, I believe you asked me why, and the answer to that is too many of ooba's posts are defending himself or making weak cases. Pretty much what AGar said a while back.

UNVOTE: I still think its a good wagon though. If were going to policy lynch someone for a miller claim, I don't know why were all no can't policy kynch someone who's refusing to actually play the game and decides to be cheeky and dodgy when he does show up.

Why did you unvote if you still think it's a good wagon? We don't have that much time left...

Because I think he's a good policy wagon if he's not going to play the game but he did some things that looked townish.

[Tammy]

Okay leaning town on Thor here. One of the ways I *think* I know how to read Thor is how he reacts when run-up. Thor is Thor, but this looks more like his town reaction.

Gotta get ready for work, be back in a bit.

[Tammy]

Also lynching someone because you don't think the mod would include the role in a upick game in which the mod has stated there could be some "bastardly" elements is lol bad and you should feel bad.

[Tammy]

Tammy, if you read this, you need to seriously step away for a bit and calm down. This reminds me exactly of how mad I got at Saki in Xenologue to the point where I ended up not giving a shit about the dude's alignment and that ended up at least partially contributing to the loss there. Regfan went and pointed out every single one of Saki's towntells after it was over and I felt like an idiot (well, to a point).

SafetyDance just flat out isn't scum and I think you'll be able to see that once you go over this recent stuff again.

No, your tunneling on saki the entire game didn't help, but there's a difference here. Saki was, as much as I think he can, actually attempting to play the game. This guy isn't and there's no indication from last night that he will even start. So yeah I don't care if someone who is refusing to actually play the game hangs. If people are going to policy lynch for a role, I'd much rather policy lynch for a lack of actually playing because yeah while he partially sounds like butthurt town he also sounds like cheeky scum and I don't have any hope at this point that he's going to actually start playing the game.

I've got to go to work. Later.

[Thor665]

@Tammy - the continued grinding on the SD nugget at this stage isn't helping things. Yes, I think we all agree on a conceptual level that people who aren't playing the game kind of need to replace out or get killed.
That said, repeating it ad nauseum and getting into fights with the dude as he defends his poor play is hardly that much higher on the amazing pro-town scale, amirite?

Demand him to be vigged and move on, or wait until he does something that can be called scummy and try to get a dog pile going. Everything else just won't be helpful right now.
I (sadly) kinda buy his play as coming from a town (if not pro-town) mindset, but that still means we shouldn't lynch him and also that you have to not debate that what he's done is bad, but show how it is actually scummy to advance anything here.
And it's not going to happen even then for the rest of Day 1, pretty much assured.

@Alfred - moreso than anyone else, I'd like to get your take on what Tierce did as regards pushing my lynch last page and how she did it via the logic she presented.

[Benmage]

Mere hours from deadline and people are squandering. .

Thor should be advocating his own lynch at this point if he were town... Millers cant live to endgame period. But alas hes scum.

So lets get a last minute no lynch huzzzah waiting for deadlines! (Internetsarcasmstrikesagain)

[Benmage]

Ive gone the LaL path..

the lynch Vi path..

the lynch those not playing...

you end up lynching half the players on the site.

[macmollie]

UNVOTE: thor[/vote]

VOTE: garruck

I would rather flash lynch tierce tbh tho cos I am pretty sure she is scum but I could not quite get it past mac altho I bet he will get on board with it now.

she came in strong at first but I have had her as scum ever since she was like "oh I am sitting back cos I am with a bunch of people who can read me and I don't have woooooorrry" when every1 read her as town in red wedding except for us. also her cosying up to nacho cos she knows if she can get him to town read her he won't let her get lynched. oh and then there was the "catching up, will in a several hours" and she didn't <---- she did this rw too! and when she comes back she doesn't comment on anything that she was "catching up on". she is scum.

I am so glad that some1 else finally

finally

might actually be seeing it.

[quadz08]

I'm basically null on Garruk, Going here but should be around to switch at deadline if need be

VOTE: Ooba

I don't really know what to make of SD's last page or two (or the discussion surrounding it). After a night's sleep, I could see someone responding the way he did (read: frustratedly) as either alignment. The split in the discussion about it seems to agree with me.

[Thor665]

Thor should be advocating his own lynch at this point if he were town... Millers cant live to endgame period. But alas hes scum.

I've also heard town don't fight their lynches ever, and embrace them with calm acceptance, unlike scum, who disagree that they look scummy.
Crazy meta theories abound.

[Tierce]

Oh, please. On the day me explaining myself makes me scum, you'll be the firsts to know.

mollie, I didn't do that. That was SafetyDance. What I said was "post in a few hours". I was busy for a while, and chose to jump right in instead of providing pointless commentary and :effort: walls.

My point is not that Thor is a poor Miller who happened to roll Town. My point is that Faraday does not use Millers as a role for Town, and thus has no reason to assign it in a game other than for shits and giggles *to people he already knows are scum*, which is what Tammy said happened with her partner in Westeros. This means Thor is not a Miller, because it's a silly thing to do before alignments are assigned and a role that Faraday doesn't use to balance Town negatively, thus was not added post-alignments--that makes Thor scum.

Additionally, he's trying to paint me as if I was retroactively amending my position on this post-facto, when it was pretty obvious what I meant when I voted him and after reading Tammy's point on Westeros games.

[Tierce]

Also, really curious on how Thor thinks the fact that I was talking about (normal) millers v. flavor millers is relevant since he claimed regular miller.

Why are flavor millers cool? Because they can be Hidden millers without being obnoxious. Because people know flavor cops may not always be trusted--they are not absolute roles. And you will note that the ADwD "flavor millers" were

Masons

. They could defend themselves from that "Hidden flavor miller" issue.

Regular cops and regular millers are boring for Faraday, which is evidenced by him using a scum Miller to spice things up. Here--Thor is not a Town Miller, which makes him not Town.

There, now you have two posts explaining my point with the whole miller-hunt through Faraday games.

Gasp two whole posts about it

she sure likes over-explanation!.

[Tierce]

Won't be around at deadline, most likely. My vote stays.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 1, Vc 51

ooba (5) -

PrideandJoy, AGar, StupendousMan, Goat on a Raft, quadz08

Thor665 (8) -

elleheathen, Benmage, SafetyDance, Zdenek, Alfred Borden, Garruk Relentless, Tierce, Shadoweh

SafetyDance (5) -

Syryana, Cephrir, displaced, Nautilius, Messiah Complex

Garruk Relentless (5) -

kanyeknowsbest, Amrun, Thor665, ooba, macmollie

Not voting (1)-

Tammy

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 1st of October at 17:05 EDT
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-10-01 17:05:01)
  
• Thor665 is V/la.

[Benmage]

^Looks like a no lynch. Good job.

[Tierce]

@Faraday: Garruk are voting Thor, not themselves.