Mini 1496: The Cash Cabd (Game Over)

[Rail Tracer]

hm. brian could be scum, actually. but deal with that later.

@brian,

vote nati?

[Brian Skies]

Sure, but it'd be anti-town if I told you why. Are you okay with that?

[Rail Tracer]

I don't really see how that works, but sure. Why anti town?

[Brian Skies]

Reasons.

VOTE: Nati

I don't know where this wagon is sitting.

[Brian Skies]

Also, something has been bothering me about Titus. Do you think scum-Titus would try to make a counter-wagon at that point in the game?

[Rail Tracer]

Yeah. Why not? It was a wagon on town, so it's not like she would have been worried about anything. It's possible Titus-scum was just spreading suspicion. She could also be town who was genuinely suspicious, though, so I'm not reading too much into it.

What are the "anti town" reasons?

[Brian Skies]

I already said I don't want to mention my reasons. At least not today.

Does it bother you?

[ProHawk]

hm. brian could be scum, actually. but deal with that later.

Just curious, ProHawk, how does me lynching notscience set up my endgame? I mean, of all the sorts of people I'd want to kill, notscience is really low on the list.

Real quick, (I am almost done with my analysis of your reads). Its not only your sole-true scum read, but your evolution of reads. I will make a case subsequently. And really? If you wanted to kill anyone you would do it at night, not during the day. The people you kill during the day are the ones you feel are easy to get lynched not the most town-players that are more of a threat. Dumb argument.

[Cabd]

Vote Count of the Second City, Fifth Block

Players Alive: 11
Votes to Lynch: 6
Format of:
Wagon (size): Voters on wagon

notscience (3): artemiskitty, Natirasha, Titus (L-3)
Titus (2): notscience, cephrir (L-4)

Natirasha (4): Rail Tracer, Rebel Without a Pulse, Prohawk, Brian Skies (L-2)

Deadline for Night Two falls on: 10/09/13 which is (expired on 2013-10-09 21:00:00)

Mod notes:

~Searching for Mario replacement still
~Jury duty sucks but it's part of life I guess

[Natirasha]

I await your case, ProHawk.

[Rail Tracer]

don't facepalm me. that's mean.

[ProHawk]

Nati's Reads - In Evolution (Chronogically):

Initial - SoS obvtown. Rebel likely town. HP townier than SoS. BrianSkye a good newbie player (

note no alignment indication here

). NS, not a successful town-read but has points in his favor as town. RT is null (

he can't remember RT's posts.

) No scum-reads.

Town: SOS, Rail Tracer, Humble Peirot, Bryan Skye. (

Note missing Rebel and now Bryan gets town-status

). Of note, Dan gets his vote to which he later defends and rationalizes.

Really Strong town read: Titus

End of D1 Reads:
Not lynching (super-duper town?) - SoS, Rail Tracer
Could be lynched with a strong convincing case (town pile?) - Rebel, Dessew, Titus, Brian Skies, Artemis Kitty
Needs to post more (null?) - Mario, Mogamma, HP-slot
Kill - Notscience

(

Note: Notscience hasn't been the focus of any of his D1 play, and ends in the kill pile. His townier-than SoS is now in the third tier of his reads. He would be willing to lynch a once really strong town read - Titus - with a strong convincing case

)

Reads Adjustments (D2): + town for NotScience and down a tier? for Brian for Night Kill Analysis.

VCA Scum: Brian, Rail Tracer, and Titus (

note: he sounds like he doesn't believe that scum would fall into this category. Also note, all of his choices are past town-reads of his, specifically RT who was in the not lynching/super town category which is interesting considering Rebel (a lesser town read) and Dessew (also a lesser town read) were both on the wagon.

)

RT is really really townie.

Brian Skies - Town Leaning

Scum: Notscience, Mario, kind of Brian Skies ; Town: SoS, RT, kitty, Rebel, Cephrir (note: Titus a past town-read is dropping despite the comment made earlier by Nati that if NS were scum, then Titus is town)

Hawk: a mild town read.

Scum: NS, Brian, Mario

Hawk: Could be Scum

Nati - The biggest issue I have, and the reason why I say it looks like you are setting up your end-game is the way your reads flip and flop all over the place with no appearance of hunting. I realize that you could be processing/reading the game more like an outsider looking in (processing reads based on what is going on in the thread) without being transparent, but therein lies the issue: transparency. It has a scum-feel in that with the way you have been moving reads flippantly, you would effectively be able to push a scum-read on just about anyone you want. Rail Tracer is probably the biggest read that has been all over the map, followed by Rebel whom you say has been moving in and out of your town-bloc but I haven't seen any indication of such, nor any reasoning. I also felt it in the way you categorized my slot first as town-leaning and then as potential scum. The Brian Skies read is also odd to me considering you didn't join to help me push him at all, despite him being in your scum-pile. Other oddities can be found in the note section of the evolution.

On an unrelated note:

Is anyone else bugged by the lack of another wagon? Everyone seems to be on a different page and not trying to convince people to follow them (which I admittedly am guilty of myself) and it's bugging the shit out of me.

This post pings me. Like, it has an illusory valid basis("Why is there no counterwagon"), but when you read into the implications, it sounds to me like he has something to gain from having DB lynched.

In any case, if you want my specific reads at the time, I was thinking notscience/DB/Mario. In that situation, notscience I think is completely willing to bus

These two thoughts don't make sense. You thought NS and DB were scum together? But you also thought NS had something to gain from getting DB lynched? Bus cred without being on the lynch wagon?

P-EDIT: No, I am really glad you are coming around to the idea... RT, it was just like a 180 degree shift.

[Brian Skies]

^
If PH isn't town, then I don't know what is.

[Rail Tracer]

Does it bother you?

nah, i'm curious, though. i can't really think of an anti-town reason you'd have for not wanting to vote nati except if you think he's town or something :/

[ProHawk]

^
If PH isn't town, then I don't know what is.

This doesn't make me want to lynch you any less...

[Brian Skies]

Does it bother you?

nah, i'm curious, though. i can't really think of an anti-town reason you'd have for not wanting to vote nati except if you think he's town or something :/

Why would I vote for Nati if I think he's town?

^
If PH isn't town, then I don't know what is.

This doesn't make me want to lynch you any less...

It makes me want to not lynch you at all.

[Natirasha]

I don't know, man. I'm not going to claim incompetence, but this game has been seriously weird--the fact that the day one was, like, all pure town dudes to me, but we ended up all being wrong...Like I said, I want to believe everyone on that wagon is town, although at this point, my reads have decayed quite a bit.

For the VCA, I discounted Rebel because he did the legwork on the DB case, and I discounted Dessew because he was flipped town already. I was also kinda passive-aggressive towards RT there, I didn't really suspect him.

Rebel has been equally a non-entity in this game, but a weird looming presence. I'm having extraordinary trouble sorting him out due to this presence-but-no-presence thing.

I said I'd support the Bryan lynch, but am currently pushing ns.

On post 494: That statement made no statement when I said it, I mostly said it because I was throwing shit at the wall and hoping it would stick--I wanted to start the train that I wanted ns dead early, and I didn't have anything non-gut to go off of(note I didn't read everything before my entrance--even now, I just sort of skimmed it).

Which ties into my claim,

Hider

. I investigated Titus last night. Didn't die. This is due to two things
1. I wasn't sure if I'd crumbed enough to make it obvious I would die to ns if he was scum.
2. I wanted to see if who ns was targeting was really town(I don't think ns would bus).
3. I was hoping that there would be enough momentum towards an ns lynch without me having to check him out.

This has been, incidentally, why I've been defending Titus today--there is something rotten in this town if Titus is scum. It was obvious they were town yesterday though.

[Natirasha]

I think this is why Saki claimed PGO yesterday--since, you know, we're untargettable, didn't want to get into any weird situations.

[Rail Tracer]

i don't believe that claim at all.

1. I wasn't sure if I'd crumbed enough to make it obvious I would die to ns if he was scum.

... no

where did you crumb that you'd be hiding behind titus? or that you were considering it, even?

2. I wanted to see if who ns was targeting was really town(I don't think ns would bus).

this is such a bad reason that i can't actually believe you'd actually think this as a town hider.

also, none of the following quotes make sense from the perspective you

know

titus is town. you haven't been hard-defending her all day, she isn't even among your strongest town reads.

I think we need to take another look at Titus, although I am still leaning town.

If there

must

be scum on the wagon, it's probably between Brian, Rail Tracer,

and Titus

.

but I like SoS, you, kitty, nacho, Cephrir. That leaves Titus and Pro hawk as other choices

[Natirasha]

Why is 2 a bad reason? I was taking a calculated risk on her.

And that was trying to throw you off. In each time I mentioned Titus today, it was in conjunction with someone else--in all those cases, too, I moved in the direction of the opposite person.

[Rail Tracer]

.........................

ANSWER THIS QUESTION: where did you crumb that you'd be hiding behind titus?

because you're an experienced enough player to know that if you were really a hider and you had died because you targeted titus last night, we'd most likely be lynching notscience today because you failed to crumb properly. and you apparently didn't even think it's likely that they're scum together, so this would be a fucking godawful play if you're actually a hider. i'm now virtually sure you're scum because you're not this bad a player from what i've seen.

and no, i don't buy that you were "throwing me off" when you mentioned that titus wasn't even among your strongest town reads. if you'd somehow died tonight and didn't crumb it properly (again) how the fuck would we have figured out your n1 target?

[Natirasha]

High-risk, high reward. I didn't decide who I was targetting until the night phase, which was an underlying implication of

1. I wasn't sure if I'd crumbed enough to make it obvious I would die to ns if he was scum.

However, think about it from my point of view--I think ns is scum. I think he's pushing a lynch on someone I have been townreading. I find it likely enough for me to take a risk on Titus.

[Rail Tracer]

I didn't decide who I was targetting until the night phase

this is why you're scum. you're not a hider.

also you were having second thoughts on ns at the start of today, so your reasoning is bullshit for this reason as well.

[Natirasha]

? What does that have to do? All I can confirm is that Titus is town, not that ns is scum. I had enough second thoughts to hold off voting a little bit, but then I dived right on in after his one post of grace.

[Rail Tracer]

look, i'll explain it slowly because you apparently haven't thought this through very much.

you claim that you targeted titus because

you weren't sure if you'd crumbed targeting ns enough

<- this alone is bullshit because you didn't crumb titus

at all

and NS was the person on the very bottom of your reads list so is the first person we'd have suspected if you died hiding behind titus. this would have been even worse if titus is scum and ns is town, because you'd be responsible for a lynch on town and we'd have no idea that you actually hid behind titus.

but at the start of D2 you were having second thoughts about ns, which suggests he would have been the better option to hide behind N1 anyway, to confirm him one way or the other.

and all this aside, you didn't crumb your N1 target, and you haven't crumbed the hide behind titus, so i ask again, how the fuck were we meant to figure out that you had hid behind titus n1 if you died, and how the fuck would we have known titus was your n1 target if you died n2? speaking of which, how the fuck would we have known your n2 target, since you apparently don't crumb at all as a hider?

this is a bullshit claim that needs to be lynched.