Newbie 1436 ~ Game Over

[Kazekirimaru]

- I'm really not comfortable putting down a vote quite yet. I'd have left it on TSO if he weren't on L-1. Newbie games tend to have derphammers.

- I really don't know.

- TSO. Though I'd be comfortable with either, I'm not familiar with Cabd or his play. All I know of him is that he's a meta player. I've at least played with TSO and feel like his play here is inconsistent with his town play I remember.

[Malakittens]

Vote Count 1.13

With 9 alive it's 5 votes to lynch.

Voting for:

*Cabd - T S O, notscience [2]
*Fferyllt -
*Bert -
*Kazekirimaru -
*agi102 -
*Sakura Hana -
*T S O - Cabd, goodmorning [2]
*notscience -
*goodmorning - Bert, Sakura Hana [2]

Not voting: agi102, Kazekirimaru, Fferyllt [3]

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2013-10-04 23:50:00)

[agi102]

Sure I'm caught up

I don't have special thoughts about anyone

I'd use my vote if I did

Please try harder.

I'd like more minds working against scum please.

You're all metaing (or at least that's what skimming tells me), and I'm lost in the sea of metaing.

[Bert]

OK, so I just skimmed the second half of the game I've been present for.

Notes: Cabd reading ffery as null is just weirding me out. I don't think ffery's that hard of a read... :/

And then he mentioned ffery being a "paranoid chick." Am I missing something here?

@notscience: in what way is goodmorning similar here to what you remember of 1402?

@goodmorning, you seriously need to come back and answer the questions posed to you throughout the past few pages. <3 If you need a recap of the questions, ask away (e.g. why you're voting TSO, what your cases are, your reads no everyone and why, the list goes on...oh and respond to Ffery's case/points regarding you)

[fferyllt]

Sure I'm caught up

I don't have special thoughts about anyone

I'd use my vote if I did

Please try harder.

I'd like more minds working against scum please.

You're all metaing (or at least that's what skimming tells me), and I'm lost in the sea of metaing.

Don't worry about the meta stuff. It's possible (maybe even better sometimes) to evaluate players purely on what they post in the current game.

Win condition is what motivates players. Their specific role and their long term goals and principles about the game also affect motivation, but you can do a lot without knowing anything about how people approach specific power roles.

Motivation drives in-thread behaviors. And that is what we as players can actually see.

It's a reverse engineering process, getting from what a person posts to the motivations behind those posts. Town's motivation is to find and lynch scum, and to find other town to work with. Scum's motivation is to get town lynched instead if possible, and to prevent town from reaching good consensus and working relationships with each other.

Think about what players are doing and have done, and how those actions have furthered town goals, versus scum goals.

However today turns out, surviving town players will have more data to work with on day 2.

[goodmorning]

Hey GM, what's your case on TSO? I can't find a post of yours detailing one.

Can't you? Let me remedy that in a bit then.

For now, I notice I haven't posted a real readslist.

Very Town: notsci, Bert, agi, Kaze

Less Town: ffery

Still pretty null though slightly townleaning: Cabd

Scum: Sakura

Very Scum: T S O

EDIT: As per your 508, will elaborate later. It takes time when there are suddenly four more pages.

Scum try their hardest to be consistent and not make stupid mistakes, so forgetting who you're voting/not bothering to look back at your last vote feels town, albeit careless.

Not necessarily. I've seen Majiffy forget set-ups, who just died, etc., as scum. It goes both ways, but I understand your sentiment.

Who the fuck wants to play like Majiffy?

Spoiler: fferyllt's 442

Ok, so Sakura and Gravija don't understand this gambit. That's ok.

Also, link me to a game where someone has been replaced for idiocy.

I'm not 100% sure selfvoting counts as a gambit. Strictly speaking.

Even if you were being a complete idiot, you could really only be replaced if you were doing it on purpose.

Fair warning: many people frown on selfvotes, partly because they tend to be anti-Town and partly because they tend to be against one's wincon.

Vote: Sakura

This vote on the other hand is at the bottom of a midsized quotes wall and has no reasoning shown.

I kinda figured my "really?" ing of her would speak for itself.

Then there are a bunch of posts including posts about Cabd and me joining the game with no mention at all of sakura.

She wasn't posting frequently, or much content. Not much to say except whinge about her V/LA, and that's not alignment-indicative.

In 168 she votes T S O (another vote without reasoning). In her next post 186 she switches back to Sakura with no explanation.

That's to do with the fluctuation of the wagons, I believe.

Well I think this is Town v Town unless one of {Sakura, T S O} flips Town in which case Cabd (tinysmall chance ffery) is Scum.

^^ I remember thinking this one pinged when I first read it. "this is Town v Town" refers to the exchange between NotSci and Cabd. The pingy part though, comes next. She's doing pre-flip associations here. I need to go back and check a couple of games to be sure, but I am pretty sure GM has actively discouraged pre-flip/day 1 associative stuff in other games we've played.

I do discourage pre-flip/D1 associative stuff. None of my tells on them are associative. They are just 2 strong scumreads in a game where I have quite a few strong townreads.

I think I need to reread this, but I doubt my opinions will change much.

Given her posts/vote today this one in particular is ironic. She doubts her opinion will change but apparently she doesn't remember where her vote was. And the reread didn't refresh her memory.

I addressed this in a post to I think Kaze.
I don't tend to worry about reading myself too carefully on reread, as I like to be able to form opinions somewhat fresh.

Agi is town because of how he's played (and I was still first to call that)

lolnope

GM I'm thinking

we have an Agi/Grav scumteam.

notsci I'm thinking that Grav missing that joke is not a scumtell and that

agi is actually leaning Town for me

based on his line of questioning and the fact that we're having serious conversation early p2.

I kinda found Agi's posts towny tbh

so yeah

goodmorning, who just switched onto the wagon because he thought he might get away with it.

lol u so funny

The scumspect pool is voting each other, pretty much, so wagon analysis isn't doing me any good - it makes me paranoid, if anything.

Yeah hey stop doing pre-flip wagon analysis. Post-flip is shit enough without this pre-flip bullshit cluttering up people's brains.

@goodmorning, you seriously need to come back and answer the questions posed to you throughout the past few pages.

STOP POSTING CONSTANTLY AND I MIGHT JUST BE ABLE TO

[fferyllt]

And then he mentioned ffery being a "paranoid chick." Am I missing something here?

That post that he made with a bunch of the gambits he's played as scum? Some of them were played against me, and they worked. Some of them he and I played together as Morph, and they worked. And the gambits he played as town? Some of those he played as town in a game where I was town. Including fake-claiming a cop-innocent result on me when he was vanilla town to derail my mislynch.

That's what he means by paranoid. I don't take anything he does at face value. And I don't trust my ability to identify when he's scum.

The bolded below are my comments.

To futher explain the paranoia I get....


An abridged history of "Gambits and Shit Cabd has Pulled in Mafia"

Chapter One: As Town
-Fakeclaim psychologist in RVS to get the SK to claim
-Fake a cop innocent on a townread

in a game we played, both town. The fake innocent results were on me.

-Fakeclaim nuetral survivor in 3-man lylo with the other two crossed -

in the same game as above

-Faked having a QT with a dead player

in the same game as above

-Faked a posting restriction to fly under the radar
-Faked a cop guilty on a huge scumread (they flipped scum)

Chapter Two: As Scum
-Claimed scum to get a daykill

our hydra

-Faked hours of metadiving

I think this might have been a game where he was scum and I was town. Or he actually did the hours of metadiving in that game

-Coasted on a hider claim to a perfect win (TWICE)

our hydra was one of these

-Used dead people to leverage my case against another player

our hydra

-Watcher-guiltied my own teammate in MYLO to go on to win

he was scum, I was town

-Pointed out my partner's scumflip on page one of a newbie
-Faked a towntell

[fferyllt]

@Mala I unvoted a while back.

[Bert]

Who the fuck wants to play like Majiffy?

Not me. I'll pass.

STOP POSTING CONSTANTLY AND I MIGHT JUST BE ABLE TO

KAY THEN. AT LEAST THIS ISN'T A SNOOZEFEST LIKE 1402 <3333333333333

That's what he means by paranoid. I don't take anything he does at face value.

Gotcha. If there's such a distinction between your town/scum games like you say there is, it is weird that he is reading you as null when he has already listed other reads. Maybe you take more effort to read, despite him knowing your play very well??

As per your 508, will elaborate later. It takes time when there are suddenly four more pages.

Oopsies, my bad. Think of it as making up for lost time.

Can't you? Let me remedy that in a bit then.

You better!!!

[goodmorning]

It's not going to be tonight, it's midnight here and I have to be up early.

[fferyllt]

Gotcha. If there's such a distinction between your town/scum games like you say there is, it is weird that he is reading you as null when he has already listed other reads. Maybe you take more effort to read, despite him knowing your play very well??

TBH I think how easy I am to read depends on scumhunting style and I haven't really figured out what styles tend to fail on me. I pretty much just carry on, and trust that my behaviors will reflect my motivations and hence my alignment, though the amount of time that takes may vary by player and by game.

Cabd apparently sometimes can't read me quickly when he's town. Or he plays that confusion up for the sake of when he's scum. Or a little of both.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm really not comfortable putting down a vote quite yet.

We have <48 hours until deadline so get comfortable soon.

[Bert]

Spoiler:

@Bert: I'm townreading Cabd because of all these:

You. You're fuckifiknow but I suppose I'll have to sort you sooner or later. Probably later, I'm a lazy fucker right now

To futher explain the paranoia I get....
<snip>

People keep getting an inflated idea of what my scumgame looks like, le sigh.

Ill vote when I'm ready. I don't want a shithammer this game like varsoon did last newbie I subbed into.

BTW this is about as close to an innocent child as we're gonna get this game. Not lynching this thing EVER.

This is the part where I play scummy all day one, obvtown it up in twilight, and get shot at night one, right?

Light townread on cliche, agi looks like day one lynchfodder of choice.

OK, Sakura...I don't interpret those quotes as genuine like you do. thanks for sharing your perspective! Now why are you townreading TSO?

[Sakura Hana]

I was townreading TSO for reasons I explained earlier, I wanted to oppose a scumread for the heck of opposing it by WKing the target and see what kind of reactions I would get due to it. In realitiy he's null, and then I oppopsed you, which helped me get a better read on you. GM is still flying out there saying I'm scum without directly engaging me, so I feel happy wtih my vote there.

[Bert]

That makes sense.

@Ffery, what do you think of GM's responses to your post(s)?

[fferyllt]

Not terribly impressed.

The part about fluctuating wagons, I'm not sure what she means or why that would make her want to move her vote.

[Kazekirimaru]

Why are you reading me as town?

Ohey I missed a question.

Because you feel genuine. Your entrance sheeping ns felt like the towniest thing this whole game. I can see where you're coming from most of the time and I understand your reasonings. You're transparent and just kinda an easy read.

[Kazekirimaru]

VOTE: TSO

I'm tired of agonizing over this wagon. And I didn't realize how close we are to deadline. >.> TSO is scum. He needs to hang. Wagon analysis be damned. #yolo

[Cabd]

Hi. While there's formalities tomorrow morning, I'm somewhat sorta kinda mostly a free man right now.

While I catch up:

Hey bert, why are you continuing to ask the same question of me when it has been asked and answered? You aren't expecting a different answer, are you? You keep pushing it to make me look bad and that's not okay bro.

[Bert]

Hey bert, why are you continuing to ask the same question of me when it has been asked and answered? You aren't expecting a different answer, are you? You keep pushing it to make me look bad and that's not okay bro.

If I did that, sorry. Today, I had too many things going on in my head after fully getting engaged in this game which is very rare

Too many things going on about who I think scum are, and lots of ramblings in my head, that's all. A night of sleep will help with everything I've skimmed today and pondered about...then your responses (and everyone else's) will start to sink in, as today (and to a lesser extent yesterday) is when I finally got into this game 100% and got in the flow, so to speak

I've been forgetting what questions I've been asking too.

[Bert]

Anyways, I gave this game 100% (literally) of my attention today, so...

sleep and then camping, so I'll be back a few hours before deadline. <3 And I'm not sure who I'll vote in the end...

fun times...

[Cabd]

Nobody else is around, and sleep beckons. Tomorrow it is, then.

[T S O]

Kazekimaru

Literally, he jumped back on the wagon with no reasoning whatsoever.

He's literally laughing and spitting in our faces by doing that.

[T S O]

Cabd's been constantly activity posting but he's obviously fucking lurking. He'd have 5 mins to do something, somehow. Despite him apparently not following, he's not going to unvote the wagon with most votes. goodmorning still has literally NOTHING on me. Nothing.

Also, I meant

Vote: Kazekimaru

[T S O]

Well I think this is Town v Town unless one of {Sakura, T S O} flips Town in which case Cabd (tinysmall chance ffery) is Scum.

He's calling me and Sakura Town at this stage, but then says if we flip Town then Cabd or ffery are scum.

186 - Why, though?

Because.
I am thoroughly satisfied with a lynch on either one (the other is T S O, obvs) at this point and so will continue to sway between them until it becomes clear which one is today's lynch (probably T S O, probably the better option).

I don't get the tactic here.

It's not really a "tactic" as such. I just happened to have equal scumreads on them at the time.

Vote: T S O

I think I'm already voting him but just to be sure and also obvious...

BUT: Why didn't you address Sakura in your end-of-post readslist?

Forgot. She's eh.

I see.

Yet your post after this feels genuinely resigned so, leaning town now.

Is resignation a towntell? Can Scum never be resigned?

- Why was GM's lack of activity troubling?

Normally, and especially as Town, I'll have one of the higher postcounts in a game, as I tend to post reactively (that is, to increase my posting when others post more).
So I'm guessing that.

Or what ffery said.

- What is "trajectory"?

It's a thing whereby you look at the development of someone's reads and decide whether it looks realistic for Town.

Or apparently it's on the wiki as well.

- There is metric fucktons more metaing in this game than I'm used to. I'm not good with metaing people. I really dislike this.

Some people fall more on the logic side than the gut side. Nothing to be worried about, just decide how much stock you want to put into other people's claimed meta of everyone.

Plus what ffery said.

i don't know what to post
i apologize for shitposting

I've forgotten your reads already. Could you do me a favour and post them again?

Also what Kaze said.

186 - Why, though?

Because.
I am thoroughly satisfied with a lynch on either one (the other is T S O, obvs) at this point and so will continue to sway between them until it becomes clear which one is today's lynch (probably T S O, probably the better option).

I don't get the tactic here.

Reading this again I'm not sure why I drew such a blank reading this. Pretty straight forward.

I can kinda see why, because it's not the most sensible play tbh but there it is.

Yet here, we're both scum.

Sakura, you know what? You're not even scum anymore.

Cabd, Kaze, gm. There's your team within that.